MLB Glamor boys in 1st Playoffs

[Runscott]

Mike Trout and Stephen Strasburg...and Bryce Harper

Trout - waiting for his first hit, but did get a walk
Strasburg - allows 8 hits, 2 runs in 5 innings
Bryce Harper - just hit a BOMB to remind us he's in the mix

[the 'stache]

If somebody gets through to Harper about playing within himself (and he may have already received the message on his own), look out. I have been watching baseball for a long time, and when I watch Harper, I am so excited by what I see. He is so darned close to being just a monster, and I think 2015 is the year when he puts it all together. People ooo and ah over Trout, and rightfully so. But Harper can hit a baseball to places that Trout will never approach. There are a select few in the Majors that can compete with Bryce Harper's pure power-Giancarlo Stanton and Devin Mesoraco are two that pop into my my mind. Josh Hamilton has that kind of power when he is healthy.

I absolutely admire that Harper goes all out. When he first came up, he was diving for everything, running into the wall to make catches, diving into bases to avoid a tag. But there's a fine line between playing hard, and playing recklessly, and if he's ever going to reach his massive potential, he has to discover how to operate on the right side. He doesn't have to give less than a full effort, but he doesn't need to throw his body around in a manner that gets him hurt.

If Harper reaches his full potential, we're going to see something we haven't seen since Barry Bonds retired. We're going to see a guy at the plate who hits the ball out of the park so often, that pitchers are just going to start walking him. I don't think he'll ever approach the batting averages Bonds did, but there's no reason to think that Harper can't be a .280 + hitter, and walk 130 + times a season. Because if they don't walk him, he's going to hit 50 home runs a year. His bat just explodes through the strike zone unlike any player I've seen. He uses his entire body to generate power. He reminds me of the game footage I've seen of Mantle. They used to say that even Mick's teeth helped him generate power. Well, that could be Harper. I think that will be Harper.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

If somebody gets through to Harper about playing within himself (and he may have already received the message on his own), look out. I have been watching baseball for a long time, and when I watch Harper, I am so excited by what I see. He is so darned close to being just a monster, and I think 2015 is the year when he puts it all together. People ooo and ah over Trout, and rightfully so. But Harper can hit a baseball to places that Trout will never approach. There are a select few in the Majors that can compete with Bryce Harper's pure power-Giancarlo Stanton and Devin Mesoraco are two that pop into my my mind. Josh Hamilton has that kind of power when he is healthy.

I absolutely admire that Harper goes all out. When he first came up, he was diving for everything, running into the wall to make catches, diving into bases to avoid a tag. But there's a fine line between playing hard, and playing recklessly, and if he's ever going to reach his massive potential, he has to discover how to operate on the right side. He doesn't have to give less than a full effort, but he doesn't need to throw his body around in a manner that gets him hurt.

If Harper reaches his full potential, we're going to see something we haven't seen since Barry Bonds retired. We're going to see a guy at the plate who hits the ball out of the park so often, that pitchers are just going to start walking him. I don't think he'll ever approach the batting averages Bonds did, but there's no reason to think that Harper can't be a .280 + hitter, and walk 130 + times a season. Because if they don't walk him, he's going to hit 50 home runs a year. His bat just explodes through the strike zone unlike any player I've seen. He uses his entire body to generate power. He reminds me of the game footage I've seen of Mantle. They used to say that even Mick's teeth helped him generate power. Well, that could be Harper. I think that will be Harper.

The pure violence (controlled violence) of Harper's swing is awesome... And is a fun contrast to the typically smooth swinging lefties we know and love (Griffey, Clark, Justice, etc). I agree Bill, I think he'll be a monster when he puts it all together, but even as is, is maybe my most- "can't miss at bat" in the game today.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Harper is a fun guy to watch. It's hard to believe that he is so young because it seems like I've been hearing about him for years.

[the 'stache]

I do need to amend part of my first post. I was amazed to find that the longest home run hit this season was by Mike Trout. 489 feet! I thought he'd top out at about 450 feet or so, with Harper being able to best that. I don't know what the conditions were, as I haven't looked yet. But that's hitting a ball into the stratosphere. Wow.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/index.php

Trout's average true home run distance this year 412.5 feet. Average speed off bat 104.6 mph. 6 no doubters on 36 home runs.
Compare that to the guy I see most often, Ryan Braun. Braun's 2012 average true distance was 406.9 feet. Average speed off bat 104.2 mph. 7 no doubters on 41 home runs.

And Braun hits some real bombs. His longest home run in 2012 was 460 feet. His longest home run in 2010 was 474 feet. His longest home run in 2007 was 476 feet. And I think a few of his other home runs are off the mark, measurement wise. I remember him hitting one in 2008, his second year in the Majors, that they said was 480 at home. But regardless, for Trout to best him is quite impressive.

[KCRfan1]

Harper may have " all world " talent, but he has spent a lot of time on the bench due to injuries of various sorts. And the injuries have included, hip, knee ( both in 2013 ), and last season his thumb. For someone being so young, and the demands baseball puts on the body due to the length of the season, the seriousness of Harpers injuries do not translate to a long and or productive career in my opinion.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Harper may have " all world " talent, but he has spent a lot of time on the bench due to injuries of various sorts. And the injuries have included, hip, knee ( both in 2013 ), and last season his thumb. For someone being so young, and the demands baseball puts on the body due to the length of the season, the seriousness of Harpers injuries do not translate to a long and or productive career in my opinion.

Time will tell.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I do need to amend part of my first post. I was amazed to find that the longest home run hit this season was by Mike Trout. 489 feet! I thought he'd top out at about 450 feet or so, with Harper being able to best that. I don't know what the conditions were, as I haven't looked yet. But that's hitting a ball into the stratosphere. Wow.

http://www.hittrackeronline.com/index.php

Trout's average true home run distance this year 412.5 feet. Average speed off bat 104.6 mph. 6 no doubters on 36 home runs.
Compare that to the guy I see most often, Ryan Braun. Braun's 2012 average true distance was 406.9 feet. Average speed off bat 104.2 mph. 7 no doubters on 41 home runs.

And Braun hits some real bombs. His longest home run in 2012 was 460 feet. His longest home run in 2010 was 474 feet. His longest home run in 2007 was 476 feet. And I think a few of his other home runs are off the mark, measurement wise. I remember him hitting one in 2008, his second year in the Majors, that they said was 480 at home. But regardless, for Trout to best him is quite impressive.

I think something may be going on with Trout. I won't deny his talent, and I'm a huge fan, BUT there seemed to have been something drastically different about his plate approach this year. He seems to be just swinging for the fences EVERY damn time. Sure it resulted in seemingly more power, but also an insane amount of K's. His grand total of only 18 SB attemps is what is kinda concerning me.

I'm down to 3 conclusions. Either something's up with his legs, and he's changed his batting approach as a result, so that he doesn't have to run as much. OR the change is his batting approach has nothing to do with anything else, and has just resulted in fewer steal opportunities. OR just a fluke thing, and things just happened to coincidentally work out this way this season..

[Runscott]

One of the t.v. analysts said that it's been a conscious effort on Trout's part to hit more home runs. Interestingly, it's the exact opposite of what Cano seems to have done this year. Trout will probably be the MVP this year, so it's tough to argue with his approach.

I am surprised that he has been completely ineffective in his first two playoff games. He might be able to make up for it in future games, except for the problem of being down 0-2 and heading to Kansas City. This could be a long winter for Trout.

[Runscott]

Points to Trout for hitting a dinger with no score, thus sort of clutch. But 1 for 12 ?!?!?!

[the 'stache]

Well, it's his first post season, and he may be pressing a little.

Interesting points about Trout, David. I wonder, too, what his manager has asked him to do. Maybe where he is batting, and what he's been asked to do has an impact on his numbers more than we know. I just hope he cuts down on the strikeouts.

This season really shows just how incredible a player he is. The first two years, he beat teams with his legs. Getting on base, stealing, taking extra bases on his hits. Now he's beating teams with his power. If he can manage to do both going forward, he could be a 40-40 guy. Just an amazing talent, and it's frightening to think that he's only going to get better.

[clydepepper]

Certainly, Trout has caught long-ball fever. I think he is less dynamic a player because of it. He is walking back to the dugout far too many times.

OT, but related: Does anyone else see the amazing resemblance between Josh Hamilton's swing and Chris Davis's? I think they should compare notes and get back to dominating. Hamilton seems to be a good guy with demons- I hope he gets past that, unfortunately, his battle may be a lifelong one.

I wonder why no one ever questioned Pujols with concerns to PEDs. Maybe, I'm just too cynical.

Bill- I have trouble comparing Braun and Bonds with anyone since you never will know when what they accomplished started being 'assisted'. I can't look up power batting records anymore and think I'm getting an accurate description of who was the best. I do admit, at this point, to being totally hypocritical about it...I was INTO IT in 1998 when 'good guys' were doing it, but not in 2001 when a jerk did.

Comparing Harper to Mantle, on the other hand, may have good merit. When asked how often he swung for the fences, Mickey said 'Every time.'

I hope Harper doesn't become so enchanted with his power that he lets his overall game suffer the way Trout has.
=

[71buc]

Harper is a fun player to watch. But I really don't believe he deserves to be in any conversation that includes Mike Trout. I have been hearing how good Harper will be since he was in high school. The reality is that the Nationals will be blessed if he ever becomes what Trout is now. Trout is one year older and more talented by light years both offensively and defensively. Statistically some may considered this to be a down year for Trout and it may still earn him the AL MVP. Trout is a once in a generation talent while Harper continues to develop. His potential is fascinating but no where near as interesting as Trout's. Nonetheless before we enshrine either of them in Cooperstown they both must prove themselves for many more years. Does anyone remember César Cedeno?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Harper is a fun player to watch. But I really don't believe he deserves to be in any conversation that includes Mike Trout. I have been hearing how good Harper will be since he was in high school. The reality is that the Nationals will be blessed if he ever becomes what Trout is now. Trout is one year older and more talented by light years both offensively and defensively. Statistically some may considered this to be a down year for Trout and it may still earn him the AL MVP. Trout is a once in a generation talent while Harper continues to develop. His potential is fascinating but no where near as interesting as Trout's. Nonetheless before we enshrine either of them in Cooperstown they both must prove themselves for many more years. Does anyone remember César Cedeno?

Good comparison with Harper, but Cedeno never approached a season like either of Trout's.

[clydepepper]

Scott- Allow me to refresh your memory on Cesar Cedeno

1972 Age 21 - .320 BA ; .537 SLG ; 55 SB
1973 Age 22 - .320 BA ; .537 SLG ; 56 SB

While he did not reach these levels after 1973, these 2 seasons hitting in the Astrodome during a notoriously pitcher-friendly era, stand up well against Trout's first two seasons.

I'm not sure Cedeno would have ever done better than those two seasons, but we can't be sure that Trout can either.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Scott- Allow me to refresh your memory on Cesar Cedeno

1972 Age 21 - .320 BA ; .537 SLG ; 55 SB
1973 Age 22 - .320 BA ; .537 SLG ; 56 SB

While he did not reach these levels after 1973, these 2 seasons hitting in the Astrodome during a notoriously pitcher-friendly era, stand up well against Trout's first two seasons.

I'm not sure Cedeno would have ever done better than those two seasons, but we can't be sure that Trout can either.

There is no comparison.

Even skipping his first two years as you did, Cedeno's numbers still don't hold a candle to Trout's - we both have MLB REF to look at, so there's no need to argue about it. Trout has comparable stolen base numbers, since that's a number you are grabbing, but was caught far, far less. Much better base runner than Cedeno. And HR's and RBI's are far superior for Trout...and that's using ALL of Trout's three full seasons.

[71buc]

Scott, I hope you don't think my intention was to compare Cedeno to Trout I was referring to the similar level of hype surrounding Cedeno early in his career. Obviously he didn't quite pan out as many thought he would. As an Astros fan I'm sure you remember the controversy that followed him as well. Although it's highly unlikely that he shares Cedeno's demons I only hope that Trout continues to impress as an athlete and as a role model. Baseball needs young stars who can reach the next generation of fans. I think there are a lot of exciting young players in today's game and Trout is the gold standard. Although their level of maturity is similar I think more highly of Puig's future than Harpers. He is more athletic and infinitely more entertaining. People forget Puig is only 23.

[Runscott]

We had a lot of drama in Houston in those days - Cedeno, J.R. Richard, Don Wilson. The hype around Cedeno was huge - took a long time to realize that we simply had a solid center fielder.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Scott, I hope you don't think my intention was to compare Cedeno to Trout I was referring to the similar level of hype surrounding Cedeno early in his career. Obviously he didn't quite pan out as many thought he would. As an Astros fan I'm sure you remember the controversy that followed him as well. Although it's highly unlikely that he shares Cedeno's demons I only hope that Trout continues to impress as an athlete and as a role model. Baseball needs young stars who can reach the next generation of fans. I think there are a lot of exciting young players in today's game and Trout is the gold standard. Although their level of maturity is similar I think more highly of Puig's future than Harpers. He is more athletic and infinitely more entertaining. People forget Puig is only 23.

They also forget that Harper is only 21. I think you are right about Puig, but Harper is already sounding and acting more mature than when he first came up; Puig, not so much.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Runscott

They also forget that Harper is only 21. I think you are right about Puig, but Harper is already sounding and acting more mature than when he first came up; Puig, not so much.

Well, remember that Puig is also undergoing culture-shock to the nth degree.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Well, remember that Puig is also undergoing culture-shock to the nth degree.

Raymond, that's a very good point. It will be interesting to see where all these guys are five years from now.

[ooo-ribay]

Whoops....my bad.....thought this was a Joe Panik thread.

[Runscott]

Interesting that Josh Hamilton said that he didn't think the Angels played poorly. I guess by "play" he wasn't including "hitting", as 2-37 from your three sluggers couldn't really be called hitting. Given that 2 of those 3 hits were HR's, you might even say they were "Dunn-esque".

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Raymond, that's a very good point. It will be interesting to see where all these guys are five years from now.

I just can't wait to hear all the human trafficking stories that are going to come to light that involved Cuban Baseball players.

[Runscott]

Puig isn't in the line-up today.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Puig isn't in the line-up today.

just as long as Panik is!

[Runscott]

Kershaw and Carpenter are the keys, but...

Yo, Adrian! we need a game-winning hit today.