Help understanding psa grading

[4scuda]

I usually don’t do too much with cards but I had this 33 Gehrig for a few years and noticed that they have to be graded to bring decent money I assume due to the number of reprints. I took it to psa at the national and it got a lower grade than I thought it would 1.5 fair. I looked at other cards with this grade and they have stains and are generally not attractive as mine. After comparing some I did notice mine is not centered well. Is that why the 1.5? Am I wrong in thinking it should have higher and in thinking many cards with same grade look worse?

[ullmandds]

are those white spots paper loss? if so this is the main reason for the low grade...soft corners...off center.

[swarmee]

At that low of grade, the centering probably played very little part. If it was a PSA 4 and the rest of the card was PSA 8 worthy, you could chalk it up to centering. A Fair card would not be much higher with better centering.

[rgpete]

TPG's grading is inaccurate and not consistent being the personal opinion of the person employed by a TPG which means nothing ! Its a non regulated Industry that has no one to answer to, but still all the sheep waste their money getting cards graded

[Kzoo]

Like Pete suggested, if those white spots are paper loss, the highest grade it would have received in my experiences would be a 2. Still good eye appeal and a good example why folks should buy the card and not the holder.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Kzoo

Like Pete suggested, if those white spots are paper loss, the highest grade it would have received in my experiences would be a 2. Still good eye appeal and a good example why folks should buy the card and not the holder.

They will. That card should get a premium for the grade if put up for auction. If a BIN, I would ask a premium and more than likely get it.

[packs]

Mine is a 1.5 too. Yours looks accurately graded:

[scmavl]

I would also say it was fairly graded. While it wouldn't be out of place in a 2 holder, I think 1.5 is an accurate grade. Those Goudey's color flakes off and it kills the grade.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by scmavl

I would also say it was fairly graded. While it wouldn't be out of place in a 2 holder, I think 1.5 is an accurate grade. Those Goudey's color flakes off and it kills the grade.

And they have never been kind to paper loss. I know it's a matter or personal preference, but I rather have the off center one with paper loss, than the centered one with the big crease down it. But don't get me wrong....both of them are fine cards.

[packs]

Big crease, huh? It was in a 1 holder. I've seen bigger creases and worse ones:

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by packs

Big crease, huh? It was in a 1 holder. I've seen bigger creases and worse ones.

Yes. The lower grades have tons more room for play than the higher grades.

[Hankphenom]

I've never understood the PSA and other TPGs' scale at either ends. The lower end is much too loose, in my opinion--I always haul out the same example, in this case that pretty 1 Gehrig gets the exact same grade as one run over repeatedly by a tank in the mud. At the other end, if the human eye cannot detect any imperfections above a 4, what are the other six grades for? I'll tell you what they're for: to create a lucrative market at the high end for dealers and auction houses to satisfy their rich OCD clients' obsessions. And gosh, who do you think the TPGs get most of their business from (with big discounts for the quantities involved)? That's right, it's the dealers and auction houses that will take those artificial grades and make fortunes off them. Meanwhile, collectors now must get all their cards graded (at retail) and pay multiples for the same cards they were collecting before the TPGs came along. But hey, let's give credit where credit's due: what a great game these guys have created for themselves! One last blast: if you have a 10-point grading scale, shouldn't elementary mathematics suggest that the difference between each grade be approximately equal? The problem with that though, is that if everybody could distinguish with their own eyes between a 9 and a 10, or a 1 and a 2, or even a 5 and a 6, who needs the TPGS and their mystical behind-the-curtains magic? And that is the actual situation that existed in the card market until they managed to throw it over, whereby the P-Mint scale was easily grasped and more or less abided by collectors and dealers alike. Differences in opinion were worked out in the marketplace.

[packs]

I agree and I actually think the lower end grades are absurd in many ways. My card was obviously not in the worst condition it could be in.

The other night a 51 Bowman Mantle with a hole punch in it sold. This card was graded a 1. It had a hole punched into it. My card has a crease down the middle and it sits at the same grade as a card with a hole punched in it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by packs

I agree and I actually think the lower end grades are absurd in many ways. My card was obviously not in the worst condition it could be in.

The other night a 51 Bowman Mantle with a hole punch in it sold. This card was graded a 1. It had a hole punched into it. My card has a crease down the middle and it sits at the same grade as a card with a hole punched in it.

Yep....I know......In my opinion, that is where TRUE value comes more into play. For '6's and '7's, everyone is so focused on VCP. No one wants to pay a huge premium, because you obviously can't tell a huge difference, unless centering is awful on one. Not so for the low grades. The nicer looking 1's and 2's WILL get bid up! Pinholes rule!!!!

[4scuda]

After looking at graded 1s and 2 Ruth’s at the national I can see there is no rhyme or reason. A 33 ruth graded 1 at the front of the building was $12k. I think it was one of the big auction houses. I told the guy you have to be kidding. It looked like a “poor” . Others were $7500 - $8500. I am thinking about busting mine back out of the case, I don’t like the way it looks and I don’t like the identification as fair. As I stated I have not dealt in these and it still is confusing to me , albeit that it’s a fact, that a card graded the same number can have drastic difference in eye appeal. At least now I know for sure it’s authentic.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by packs

Mine is a 1.5 too. Yours looks accurately graded:

..mine was downgraded because half the printing on the back is absolute gibberish..

..

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by MikeGarcia

..mine was downgraded because half the printing on the back is absolute gibberish..

..

LOL...That's French!!! Look at all the Gehrig's!!!!

[icurnmedic]

I probably would hesitate to break it out now. It always could go down. You never know with TPG's and potentially could damage in the process. Nice card regardless of what you choose. Thomas

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I've never understood the PSA and other TPGs' scale at either ends. The lower end is much too loose, in my opinion--I always haul out the same example, in this case that pretty 1 Gehrig gets the exact same grade as one run over repeatedly by a tank in the mud. At the other end, if the human eye cannot detect any imperfections above a 4, what are the other five grades for? I'll tell you what they're for: to create a lucrative market at the high end for dealers and auction houses to satisfy their rich OCD clients' obsessions. And gosh, who do you think the TPGs get most of their business from (with big discounts for the quantities involved)? That's right, it's the dealers and auction houses that will take those artificial grades and make fortunes off them. Meanwhile, collectors now must get all their cards graded (at retail) and pay multiples for the same cards they were collecting before the TPGs came along. But hey, let's give credit where credit's due: what a great game these guys have created for themselves! One last blast: if you have a 10-point grading scale, shouldn't elementary mathematics suggest that the difference between each grade be approximately equal? The problem with that though, is that if everybody could distinguish with their own eyes between a 9 and a 10, or a 1 and a 2, or even a 5 and a 6, who needs the TPGS and their mystical behind-the-curtains magic? And that is the actual situation that existed in the card market until they managed to throw it over, whereby the P-Mint scale was easily grasped and more or less abided by collectors and dealers alike. Differences in opinion were worked out in the marketplace.

Hank's post really sums up my beliefs as well. There's way to much variance across the lower grades (1 - 3). And it is way too minute between the higher grades (7 - 10). Their scale is ridiculous and makes no sense.

I would wholeheartedly support a TPG that administered even increments from 1 to 10, based on actual condition and eye-appeal. Or better yet, a TPG that simply slabs the card as authentic or not with no numerical grade, so the collector can determine for themselves. I really wish a service like this would come along.

[JeremyW]

I would leave it in the PSA holder that it is currently in. When/if you go to sell, it will go for more than most "poor" cards.

[JeremyW]

I would leave it in the PSA holder that it is currently in. When/if you go to sell, it will go for more than most "poor" cards. Here's my WWG beater.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hank's post really sums up my beliefs as well. There's way to much variance across the lower grades (1 - 3). And it is way too minute between the higher grades (7 - 10). Their scale is ridiculous and makes no sense.

I would wholeheartedly support a TPG that administered even increments from 1 to 10, based on actual condition and eye-appeal. Or better yet, a TPG that simply slabs the card as authentic or not with no numerical grade, so the collector can determine for themselves. I really wish a service like this would come along.

Exactly Correct Hank. Throw in Registries and Pop-Reports for more profits that people chase like crazy. Love them or Hate Them TPG's have a brilliant business.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Or better yet, a TPG that simply slabs the card as authentic or not with no numerical grade, so the collector can determine for themselves. I really wish a service like this would come along.

That would be a worthwhile service, assuming they could get it right. But if you can't judge for yourself what condition a card or autograph or anything else is in by looking at it--with a loupe or magnifying glass, if needed, you have no business collecting them. Just buy the beaters and you'll save yourself a lot of money.

[glynparson]

Sorry but you were wrong to expect any higher grade than a 1.5 on that card.

[glynparson]

It still
Amazes me how it always seems to be a few of the same clowns that don’t understand the difference between eye appeal and technical grade that chime in on these posts with their nonsense. Especially those that have been dealers for long enough that they shouldn’t be so damn ignorant. This card is a 1.5 don’t know why some of you aren’t willing to just tell the guy the truth and kiss his ass with oh there’s just too much variance blah blah blah. That’s a fair card. Sorry any one thinking that’s a nicer grade than that that’s why you aren’t a grader but a goofball bitching about grading on the internet.

[Hankphenom]

Buy the card, not the holder. "Absolutely God Damn right," as Capt. Willard would say.

[Snowman]

Fortunately, at least in vintage, eye appeal still matters most. In last month's PWCC premier auction, there was a 52 mantle 1.5 that sold for more than one in a 3.5 holder. And there was another one on eBay that sold for more than both of those that was in an Authentic holder a couple weeks ago. Grades help, but they're not the end all be all.

[4scuda]

It’s interesting how these personalities come out in these posts even though there is nothing meant to be controversial. I understand now that a 1.5 in grading doesn’t equate to what I would consider a fair. In my work I do Pugh matrix to evaluate suppliers weighting characteristics in this case paper loss ( which I didn’t even realize I had) must carry a heavy weight. I learned a lot from the comments especially valuable to know the nasty people I would never deal with.