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  #1  
Old 05-14-2024, 02:28 AM
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Default Tuesday Trivia: Two-Way WAR monger

Last season Shohei Ohtani amassed over 6 bWAR as a position player and almost 4 bWAR has a pitcher.

But who is the only player in MLB history to amass over 25 career WAR as both a position player AND pitcher?

As a reminder, please do not post an answer you have looked up--please give other people a chance to guess.
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2024, 02:42 AM
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I'll guess the obvious wrong bait answer. Babe Ruth.

Thinking it will have to be a 19th century guy, and I'm not well versed on them stat-wise. I couldn't even find it looking it up 😂.
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Last edited by Lucas00; 05-14-2024 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 05-14-2024, 06:44 AM
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Babe Ruth is a great guess. He posted over 20 WAR as pitcher in his six years with the Red Sox, but that's where it ended. He had slightly negative WAR as a pitcher with the Yankees.
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Old 05-14-2024, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas00 View Post
I'll guess the obvious wrong bait answer. Babe Ruth.

Thinking it will have to be a 19th century guy, and I'm not well versed on them stat-wise. I couldn't even find it looking it up 😂.

Yup, gotta be a deadest of the deadball guys.

It's definitely not Rick Ankiel

....and Wes Ferrell likely didn't get enough at bats in his career to make a run at it.

Those are the only two modern-ish guys outside of Ruth, I could think of who might have made a run at it.
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Old 05-14-2024, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Yup, gotta be a deadest of the deadball guys.

It's definitely not Rick Ankiel

....and Wes Ferrell likely didn't get enough at bats in his career to make a run at it.

Those are the only two modern-ish guys outside of Ruth, I could think of who might have made a run at it.
Haha, poor Ankiel.

Wes Ferrell had 48.8 WAR as a pitcher but only 11.3 WAR as a batter, which is pretty damned good considering he only had 1,345 played appearances.
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Old 05-14-2024, 09:53 AM
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It has to be a 19th century guy John Ward? He was very good at both but I dont know if he pitched long enough to hit 25 WAR with how hard WAR is designed to punish 19th century pitchers.
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Old 05-14-2024, 10:51 AM
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Dave Foutz is my guess.
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Old 05-14-2024, 11:36 AM
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Dave Foutz, the 19th century 1B, outfielder and pitcher, is a deep cut and a great guess. But Foutz only had 12.8 WAR as a position player and 22.7 WAR as a pitcher.

Last edited by cgjackson222; 05-14-2024 at 03:59 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-14-2024, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
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It has to be a 19th century guy… John Ward? He was very good at both but I don’t know if he pitched long enough to hit 25 WAR with how hard WAR is designed to punish 19th century pitchers.
Greg, you are correct!

John Montgomery "Monte" Ward accumulated 34.3 WAR as a batter and 28.1 as a pitcher.

Along the way, he led the League with a 1.51 ERA as a Rookie in 1878, and led the League in Wins (47), Winning % (71.2) and strikeouts (239) in his sophomore effort.

Though not a great hitter (career OPS+ of 92) he did the League in steals twice.

Not sure how many other players led the League in ERA and steals during their career.

But more importantly to the game than his achievements on the field, were his trailblazing and personal accomplishments off the field. From SABR: "Ward organized the first major-league players union in 1885 and was a tireless advocate for players’ rights. He also authored the first popular How-To manual for youngsters wishing to take up the game. But first and foremost, Ward is remembered as the driving force behind the employee-controlled Players League, the audacious but short-lived challenger to the preeminence of the National League and American Association....At various times, Ward was a high-visibility Broadway bon vivant, a distinguished New York City attorney, a Long Island country squire and community pillar, and a major figure in Northeastern amateur golfing circles. Although there are other worthy contenders for the laurel, John Montgomery Ward may well have been the most accomplished man ever to play major-league baseball. "
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Last edited by cgjackson222; 05-14-2024 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 05-14-2024, 04:30 PM
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I feel sorry for superlative players who lead such a contest based on a statistic they never knew existed.
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Old 05-14-2024, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgjackson222 View Post
Greg, you are correct!

John Montgomery "Monte" Ward accumulated 34.3 WAR as a batter and 28.1 as a pitcher.

Along the way, he led the League with a 1.51 ERA as a Rookie in 1878, and led the League in Wins (47), Winning % (71.2) and strikeouts (239) in his sophomore effort.

Though not a great hitter (career OPS+ of 92) he did the League in steals twice.

Not sure how many other players led the League in ERA and steals during their career.

But more importantly to the game than his achievements on the field, were his trailblazing and personal accomplishments off the field. From SABR: "Ward organized the first major-league players union in 1885 and was a tireless advocate for players rights. He also authored the first popular How-To manual for youngsters wishing to take up the game. But first and foremost, Ward is remembered as the driving force behind the employee-controlled Players League, the audacious but short-lived challenger to the preeminence of the National League and American Association....At various times, Ward was a high-visibility Broadway bon vivant, a distinguished New York City attorney, a Long Island country squire and community pillar, and a major figure in Northeastern amateur golfing circles. Although there are other worthy contenders for the laurel, John Montgomery Ward may well have been the most accomplished man ever to play major-league baseball. "
I am surprised he finished below the league in OPS+.

Bryan Di Salvatore wrote a very good full-length book on his life, "A Clever Base-Ballist", for those into 19th century baseball history. I have no career contemporary card of him to show after trading my Ginter away (oops!) .
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Old 05-14-2024, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
I am surprised he finished below the league in OPS+.

Bryan Di Salvatore wrote a very good full-length book on his life, "A Clever Base-Ballist", for those into 19th century baseball history. I have no career contemporary card of him to show after trading my Ginter away (oops!) .
Thanks for the book recommendation! Ward certainly had a book-worthy life.

Wish I had a card of him as well.
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Old 05-17-2024, 12:51 PM
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Not ALL my exes live in Texas, though I don't actually know where this one went:

1888 N28 Allen and Ginter MONTE WARD SGC-80.jpg

Along with Goodwin King Kelly, my favorite 19th century exes.


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