Current state of the hobby-Modern cards

[homerunhitter]

What is YOUR opinion of the current state of the hobby when it comes to modern cards? With the current economy, how is it at card shows? eBay? Etc?

[OhioLawyerF5]

I have never seen more activity in the hobby in 40 years. I go to card shows all over the country, and there are more people at shows than ever. I believe there are more participants in the hobby today than ever before, including the covid boom.

[Peter_Spaeth]

PSA subs and wait times should be a pretty good barometer.

[cubman1941]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I have never seen more activity in the hobby in 40 years. I go to card shows all over the country, and there are more people at shows than ever. I believe there are more participants in the hobby today than ever before, including the covid boom.

This is great but are they buying or selling? Maybe they are all looking for a modern card to grade in hopes of selling big or trying to sell a current modern star? Are they buying vintage?

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by cubman1941

This is great but are they buying or selling? Maybe they are all looking for a modern card to grade in hopes of selling big or trying to sell a current modern star? Are they buying vintage?

The dealers I've talked to at shows have all said how much they are selling. I'm sure there are lots of motivations for a person's participation in the hobby. But it seems to me that there are a lot of collectors, a lot of buyers, a lot of sellers, a lot of investors, a lot of modern hobbyists, and a lot of vintage hobbyists. That speaks to a healthy hobby to me. People can hate on Fanatatics, and make fun of the "10x the hobby" quote, but at the end of the day, one thing they do well is marketing. And they have done a masterful job of increasing the number of participants in the hobby. And if only a fraction of those new entrants into the hobby turn into true collectors, we will be in a good place. I'm seeing tons of kids at shows. Sure many are trying to hustle for a buck. But it's no different than when I was a kid checking every Beckett for up arrows. Kids care about card values. It's natural. But many who are drawn into it for money, eventually grow into collectors. So the more kids the better.

[cubman1941]

I certainly agree with that. We need more kids collecting, not for money, but for fun whether it be player collectors, set collectors or just for fun!!

[Rich Klein]

Kids are very involved in this hobby in the DFW area

Come to any trade day/night in the DFW area at the local card stores and you will see a LOT of kids and I mean people like me over the age of 40 are well in the minority. And for those who are asking, my LCS does it's trade day/night from 3 or 4 to 6 on Saturdays which would not interfere with a lot of plans

The bad news is some of the kids collect and some are in it only for the $$$$. Worries me as what will happen 20 years from now when those kids return after the 3 C's (Cars, Cuties and College) and did not really collect as kids.

Rich

Comments about the new unopened world, well that's even more complicated

[bk400]

From what I see at the local card stores, I'd echo the comments that there seems to be a lot of interest from kids in modern cards. I get the sense that a lot of kids like ripping packs. The boxes of packs move quickly, but the slabbed cards in the case seem to just sit there from week to week.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PSA subs and wait times should be a pretty good barometer.

Wait times on ticket grading from their recent special is an insane 6 months.

It is great to see young kids in the hobby. My personal experience is they couldn't care less about the cards and are all about if they just made money or not.

I purchased a couple hundred factory auto and patch cards to go along with a ton of Twins cards. I am in Twins country. I would but together lots of 10 cards with 1 auto and 1 patch card in each lot. I sat up at 3 different Farmers markets selling produce. I bought the cards to give to the kids being drug to the market by their parents/grandparents. The first couple weeks all the kids wanted them. Then when I would see the same kid again they would say they didn't want any because they are not worth anything.

[gonefishin]

I recently walked the floor of the West Coast National (Renamed from the Burbank Card Show) in Ontario. I saw several young men, and entire families, wheeling and dealing everywhere - trading/buying/selling. Several dealers had piles of cash to entice the seller and I saw a lot of people being paid in cash.

Every dealer I stopped and chatted with tried to get me to sell, or send to their auction, etc, some or all of my vintage cards. I do sell a few now and then, but mainly just buy and add to my collection.

It seems the demand for 1969 and earlier is endless. Definitely more demand than supply.

It's much easier with the modern cards - just like the treasury department and money - just make more to meet the demand! Heck, who doesn't like the new remake of the Challenger and Camaro, however, if you owned an original like I did, it's just not the same!

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Kids are very involved in this hobby in the DFW area

Come to any trade day/night in the DFW area at the local card stores and you will see a LOT of kids and I mean people like me over the age of 40 are well in the minority. And for those who are asking, my LCS does it's trade day/night from 3 or 4 to 6 on Saturdays which would not interfere with a lot of plans

The bad news is some of the kids collect and some are in it only for the $$$$. Worries me as what will happen 20 years from now when those kids return after the 3 C's (Cars, Cuties and College) and did not really collect as kids.

Rich

Comments about the new unopened world, well that's even more complicated

Interesting perspective. Just reading these comments makes me feel so out of touch with the current state of the market.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

What is YOUR opinion of the current state of the hobby when it comes to modern cards? With the current economy, how is it at card shows? eBay? Etc?

A game of hot potato imo

A few random thoughts regarding modern and ultra-modern ...

Too many cards that aren't worth subbing are getting submitted. Even if the card gets a 10, it won't sell for the fee. Way too much crap out there.

People only want 10s on bigger card, like a Pujols/Ichiro RC ... get a PSA 9 and call it a day. It's the same friggin card and there is only a perceived difference in condition.

I set up on occasion at a small firehouse show. Buyers want to pay 50-80% of comps, but when they want to sell, they want full price.

Stick with vintage and raw modern

[Neal]

https://youtu.be/0v4-eAefurY

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Kids are very involved in this hobby in the DFW area.

DFW? Does that have something to do with Pokemon?

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

The bad news is some of the kids collect and some are in it only for the $$$$.

Sad.

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is great to see young kids in the hobby. My personal experience is they couldn't care less about the cards and are all about if they just made money or not.

I purchased a couple hundred factory auto and patch cards to go along with a ton of Twins cards. I am in Twins country. I would but together lots of 10 cards with 1 auto and 1 patch card in each lot. I sat up at 3 different Farmers markets selling produce. I bought the cards to give to the kids being drug to the market by their parents/grandparents. The first couple weeks all the kids wanted them. Then when I would see the same kid again they would say they didn't want any because they are not worth anything.

Worse than sad!

[maniac_73]

At a small monthly card show we have here in the bay area I've watched TCG's completely take over. About 2 years ago they would take up about 10percent of the space, the last show it was over half. I think TCG's are or have already overtaken sports cards in popularity.

[Balticfox]

Trading Card Games?

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Trading Card Games?

Yeah, Pokemon, Magic, etc..

[Brent G.]

My 14-year-old son mixes it up -- he'll buy singles of his favorite teams/players, then occasionally buy a box hoping to make a hit. He usually pulls something he knows he can sell on eBay to make his money back ... then do it all over again next time. No interest in vintage yet -- but I didn't at his age either.

[BioCRN]

I'm personally amazed how well things are holding up for ultra-modern releases considering the cost of the buy-in.

It's been gambling for a long time. Hell, you can't economically put together a base set from packs for at least 10-15 years.

There's the hardcore boutique products that bring many 100s to 1000s per box as a suggested retail price.

No matter what one thinks of this state of the hobby, it exists and it's thriving.

Myself, I'm out here buying singles. I don't have the appetite for the gamble at the buy-in price.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

At a small monthly card show we have here in the bay area I've watched TCG's completely take over. About 2 years ago they would take up about 10percent of the space, the last show it was over half. I think TCG's are or have already overtaken sports cards in popularity.

Most of the grading card business now comes from TCG doesn't it?

[Exhibitman]

It is not a unitary market. A 1983 Fleer is way different than a 1996 pinnacle is way different than a 2020 panini. I’ve been doing well selling 1980-1998 cards on eBay.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

It is not a unitary market. A 1983 Fleer is way different than a 1996 pinnacle is way different than a 2020 panini. I’ve been doing well selling 1980-1998 cards on eBay.

Regarding the 1980-1998 cards. Are these base cards such as 1983 topps or 1997 topps? Thanks

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Most of the grading card business now comes from TCG doesn't it?

Its close if it hasn't already surpassed it will soon

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I'm seeing tons of kids at shows. Sure many are trying to hustle for a buck. But it's no different than when I was a kid checking every Beckett for up arrows.

Well it's sure as hell different than when I was a kid. We never thought about values. We just opened the packs, dropped the wrappers where we stood, stuffed the gum in our mouths, looked to see who we got in each pack, shoved the cards into our pant pocket and then eventually flung them gaily at brick walls in winner takes all games.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Kids care about card values. It's natural.

I disagree. That's learned behaviour which has come about in the last 35-40 years or so.

[Kutcher55]

As others have said, part of it is increased popularity of pokeyman and all that garbage. Also more kids wheeling and dealing trying to make a buck. Vintage prices seem steady, although perhaps some recent moderate lift in blue-chip cards? I haven't tried to sell anything substantial in many months. On the buy side, prices seem pretty flat.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

As others have said, part of it is increased popularity of pokeyman and all that garbage.

But any and all cards were considered just garbage back in the day! That's why almost all were roughly handled and then eventually pitched out in the garbage. And the very fact that they were nothing but cheap kid stuff when issued is what gives them charm today.

What troubles me about the TCG cards issued since the mid-1990's is that they weren't considered absolute garbage when issued. Everybody including kids knew about card values by then. As a result there's not been much of a destruction factor. The rarities these days are therefore the manufactured rarities which I consider to be "artificial" somehow.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

But any and all cards were considered just garbage back in the day! That's why almost all were roughly handled and then eventually pitched out in the garbage. And the very fact that they were nothing but cheap kid stuff when issued is what gives them charm today.

What troubles me about the TCG cards issued since the mid-1990's is that they weren't considered absolute garbage when issued. Everybody including kids knew about card values by then. As a result there's not been much of a destruction factor. The rarities these days are therefore the manufactured rarities which I consider to be "artificial" somehow.

Yes, but many people actually, ahem, USED or still use those TCG cards in games so there is not quite the same level of protection for many of those as there are for sports cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

i notice that the chase cards for modern that go for 10-50 bucks for the current year people bid on ebay on but the next year they drop and keep dropping besides the ohtanis and witts....on to the next year chase.

in the old sets we all loved every card in a set...now its just certain subsets...the level of love is much thinner..i just dont see 18 year olds today paying big money to build these subsets in their 40s and older when they have more money

i do see that with pokemom cards that are played with and certain cards to them are like the 1950s mantles that we couldnt afford in are youth but some of us can and do pay. I can see certain pokemon cards that are $ 1000 or so now to buy that kids cant afford but will be paying much more than than 30 years later as they are cards of their youth and lore that that were playing with and not just chasing for a sub set for one year than on to the next

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i notice that the chase cards for modern that go for 10-50 bucks for the current year people bid on ebay on but the next year they drop and keep dropping besides the ohtanis and witts....on to the next year chase.

I've noticed precisely that phenomenon as well. It's actually been that way for thirty years.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

in the old sets we all loved every card in a set...now its just certain subsets...the level of love is much thinner.

Truth!

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i do see that with pokemom cards that are played with and certain cards to them are like the 1950s mantles that we couldnt afford in are youth but some of us can and do pay. I can see certain pokemon cards that are $ 1000 or so now to buy that kids cant afford but will be paying much more than than 30 years later as they are cards of their youth and lore that that were playing with and not just chasing for a sub set for one year than on to the next

You're very correct. Pokemon cards continue to be a sensation with kids. As nostalgia sets in with these former kids in decades to come, they'll eagerly ante up for the cards that they once had as well as the ones they merely coveted. It's therefore a mistake to dismiss Pokemon cards as a legitimate and potentially very pricey collectible.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Well it's sure as hell different than when I was a kid. We never thought about values. We just opened the packs, dropped the wrappers where we stood, stuffed the gum in our mouths, looked to see who we got in each pack, shoved the cards into our pant pocket and then eventually flung them gaily at brick walls in winner takes all games.



I disagree. That's learned behaviour which has come about in the last 35-40 years or so.

I disagree. Human beings are born coveteous. The desire to have more than others has been passed down from Adam. You don't have to teach a kid to want the most valuable thing. Just because you didn't care about values of baseball cards doesn't mean no one did. I promise you kids interested in card values pre-dates your life. As soon as cards were traded for value, some kid cared about that value. Like I said, it's human nature. You just didn't realize they had value.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Human beings are born coveteous. The desire to have more than others has been passed down from Adam. You don't have to teach a kid to want the most valuable thing.... Like I said, it's human nature.

Yes on those points I agree.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Just because you didn't care about values of baseball cards doesn't mean no one did.

Why would anybody have cared about the "value" of the bubble gum cards we kids were buying from 1959-65 when they had no value at the time?

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

As soon as cards were traded for value, some kid cared about that value.

True. But that didn't happen until many years after I stopped buying cards as a kid.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I promise you kids interested in card values pre-dates your life.

I was born in early April 1952. While some adult somewhere may have been willing to pay a few dollars for certain select tobacco cards prior to that, I'd be very surprised if you could identify any kid at the time aware of any of these cards.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You just didn't realize they had value.

Those cards had no value because they had no value at the time! You can't transpose future values back into the past. That's a mistake. Any market participant will tell you timing is everything.

I was simply making the point that my/our experience back in the day was very much different than the experience/behaviour of present day kids (or kids since the late 1980's). We happily bought and collected bubble gum cards with no thought as to their value (primarily because there was no value). We did it simply because we liked baseball and the cards looked, smelled and felt cool. You can't say that my statement was incorrect because we would have paid attention to the value had there been any. We simply didn't. I said only that. Case closed.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes on those points I agree.



Why would anybody have cared about the "value" of the bubble gum cards we kids were buying from 1959-65 when they had no value at the time?



True. But that didn't happen until many years after I stopped buying cards as a kid.



I was born in early April 1952. While some adult somewhere may have been willing to pay a few dollars for certain select tobacco cards prior to that, I'd be very surprised if you could identify any kid at the time aware of any of these cards.



Those cards had no value because they had no value at the time! You can't transpose future values back into the past. That's a mistake. Any market participant will tell you timing is everything.

I was simply making the point that my/our experience back in the day was very much different than the experience/behaviour of present day kids (or kids since the late 1980's). We happily bought and collected bubble gum cards with no thought as to their value (primarily because there was no value). We did it simply because we liked baseball and the cards looked, smelled and felt cool. You can't say that my statement was incorrect because we would have paid attention to the value had there been any. We simply didn't. I said only that. Case closed.

Cards most certainly had value in the 50s and 60s. That's a fallacy. Cards had value in the 10s and 20s. This idea that cards didn't have value back then is a recent allegation, not supported by facts. It's usually people who were kids at the time who were oblivious to that value. Kids today just have much more awareness of it. In the 80s, beckett published a massively popular magazine with prices that every kid had. Now, kids hold the internet in their pockets. They have more information than you did in the 50s. But again, you not being aware of something doesn't make it not real. But make no mistake, cards had value in the 50s. And had you been aware of it, you would have cared just the same as kids today.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It's usually people who were kids at the time who were oblivious to that value.

That concession is sufficient to prove my point. Our childhood collecting behaviour back when I was a kid in grade school in 1958-65 was very much different than the collecting behaviour of kids these days.

You're arguing that our behaviour would have been different had we known about values. Maybe so. But that's beside the point I was making.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That concession is sufficient to prove my point. Our childhood collecting behaviour back when I was a kid in grade school in 1958-65 was very much different than the collecting behaviour of kids these days.

You're arguing that our behaviour would have been different had we known about values. Maybe so. But that's beside the point I was making.

You missed my point. YOU may not have known cards could have value, but you aren't representative of every kid. Your experience does not prove there weren't kids who cared about the value of their cards in the 50s. It was certainly a smaller market than today. But that's because the world was a smaller place. Not because the market didn't exist.

[1952boyntoncollector]

the value for a lot of these cards as kids was in trade to each other..

you really think many of these movie cards have much value..yeah there will be a website selling some but usually unopened packs...but kids in the past really loved their baseball cards and enjoyed the stats and watching the players every day etc and have grown up and can afford to buy cards of the past... .movies come and go i am going to assume howard the duck raw cards dont have the same 'value' back then or now.. card were treated differently past v present.