Autographs- Do you collect? Do your care?

[Tim Kindler]

With a bunch of recent threads about fake, fradualant autographed material that seems to be everywhere out there; my question to everyone is: DO YOU COLLECT AUTOGHRAPHED MATERIAL AND WHY?

Personally, autographs mean very little to me. Yes, I have a few items that I have personally had signed in front of me, but none of it comes with a letter of authenticity, and I could care less about how much it is worth. These autographs are valuable to me because they are players that I like(d). I guess I have always looked at these people as equals, not some God-Like figure who is any better than me or anyone else, so I have never really gotten the obscession that people have with autographs of famous people/athletes.

Really scary to think that Stump purposely signed a bunch of stuff as Ty Cobb, Yikes!

Just curious of your thoughts'
Tim

[carrigansghost]

I use the ones that I have obtained as companion pieces only, but would hope all are real. I have some legal documents signed by Carrigan that I use as guides.

Rawn

[D. Broughman]

I have several autographs that I got when my son and I would go to signings that have special meanings. Some HOF players and some where they only played a short time. They all take me back to that time no mater who they are. He lives on the other side of the state and we don't get to see each other as much as we would like. The memories are worth more than any autographs.

[drc]

I've collected autographs over the years. I think they're interesting. Nobel Prize winning scientists are amongst my favorites. Though I've collected sports, Hollywood, military and political. I don't buy anything particularly expensive or stuff like Babe Ruth signed baseballs. A letter from a Nobel scientist or a minor WWII General would be as as interesting as anything to me. That an autograph has a $10,000 price tag on it doesn't make it interesting to me. A Babe Ruth baseball doesn't particularly excite me.

In any area, some collectors are attracted to the price tag not the item. The only reason they have any interest in a T206 Honus Wagner or Babe Ruth signed baseball is because they're expensive.

[slidekellyslide]

The only autographs I collect are team signed baseballs and 3x5's of Lincoln minor leaguers...the only ones that anyone would try to fake would be Nellie Fox and maybe Dick Stuart.

[thetruthisoutthere]

My days of collecting autographs are behind me. The few autographs I've gotten in person or through the mail I certainly do cherish. Tom Tresh (Rest In Peace) is my all-time favorite Yankee. When he lived in Michigan I would send him a card to sign once a year and he would return the card with his signature every time. Below is a photo of just one of those cards. Also pictured below is my one and only team-signed baseball. It is from the 1985 Yankees with Billy Martin on the sweet spot. The ball also includes sigs of Don Mattingly, Rickey Henderson, etc.

TRESHMINE.jpg

TEAMYANKEES.jpg

[keithsky]

My days of autograph collecting are over to. To much garbage out there. Ebay doesn't do anything to police the fakes, Coach's Corner ruined the hobby also. I thought when Operation Bullpen was finished it would have cleaned up most of the bad stuff and scum bags in the hobby but just as it tried to Ebay and C.C put it all right back. I'm starting to get into game used stuff now and even that is getting shacking.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Tim Kindler

I guess I have always looked at these people as equals, not some God-Like figure who is any better than me or anyone else, so I have never really gotten the obscession that people have with autographs of famous people/athletes.

But an obsession for little pieces of cardboard with ballplayer's pictures on them makes sense?

[Writehooks]

I'm a sportswriter by profession and have been in the hobby for 40 years, but autographs were never appealing to me until my son was born in 1983. For a five- or six-year stretch when he was a little guy, I discretely asked athletes that I met through work if they would personalize an autographed photo for my son. To a man, they were all very amenable. While the "gallery" didn't mean a lot to the kid until years later, today his office is proudly adorned with more than three dozen framed photos signed to him by the likes of Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Gordie Howe, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Patrick Roy, Evel Knievel and Jack Nicklaus.

[perezfan]

And...

Would you stop collecting Cards, just because there are reprints and altered/trimmed cards circulating out there?

Would you stop collecting early posters, ad signs and broadsides, just because some clown from Ohio tries to reproduce and profit from them?

Would an art collector stop collecting original art, because there are fakes and reproductions passed off as authentic?

Would you stop wearing your Rolex because they sell so many fake ones in Tijuana?

Of course not! As long as you know your stuff, it's just as rewarding to collect autographs as anything else. If it's not your "cup of tea", so be it... But you shouldn't stop collecting just because some idiots out there are producing bogus items.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by perezfan

And...

Would you stop collecting Cards, just because there are reprints and altered/trimmed cards circulating out there?

Would you stop collecting early posters, ad signs and broadsides, just because some clown from Ohio tries to reproduce and profit from them?

Would an art collector stop collecting original art, because there are fakes and reproductions passed off as authentic?

Would you stop wearing your Rolex because they sell so many fake ones in Tijuana?

Of course not! As long as you know your stuff, it's just as rewarding to collect autographs as anything else. If it's not your "cup of tea", so be it... But you shouldn't stop collecting just because some idiots out there are producing bogus items.

I would never let anyone or anything influence me to stop doing anything. Just a personal decision on my part.

[bbcard1]

I don't really collect autos, but I do have two projects I enjoy. I have a negro league bat that is pretty much full...it's just as well as there are few of those guys still around. I also have a Baseball Encylopedia with more than 180 signatures across the appropriate entry.

[Scott Garner]

No doubt, I have always been an autograph hawk (stalker). I primarily have collected baseball players that I liked through the years, and each has a great story that accompanies it. Too many of these to list here. Nolan Ryan and Cal Ripken were great signers and always personable. Albert "don't call me Joey" Belle was the all-time biggest tool without a doubt! That's a story that isn't fit to print.

BTW, I've also been fortunate to have gotten the autograph of quite a few of my favorite golfers (Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Lee Trevino, Greg Norman, Fred Couples, Corey Pavin, Johnny Miller, Tiger Woods, Bruce Lietzke, Ricky Fowler (current young gun on the PGA), Nancy Lopez, Annika Sorenstam, etc.). I'm not a huge basketball fan, but I did enjoy the LA Lakers for many years. I managed to catch Jerry West, Magic Johnson and James Worthy one-on-one and each were nice enough to sign for me. Magic Johnson was one of my favorite autograph experiences of all time. Julius Erving was another awesome experience.

These days my major autograph pursuit is trying to get the signature of every pitcher that ever threw a perfect game since 1893 (the year that they moved the mound distance to the modern standard of 60' 6"). I have personally gotten the signature of about 106 living no-hit pitchers. Additionally, I own the sig of another 140 that are no longer alive. Several of these I got in person. In order to complete my goal I still am looking for about 18 more early names. It's a brutally hard challenge, but I love it.

Collect what you like!

[bbcard1]

I had a guy in his early 20s who used to work with me who was fearless. He had a couple of monster boxes full of cards. He was about 6 foot 3 and had an athletic build and he used to take his card stuff in a bat bag and walk into minor league clubhouses posing as a player. Rarely got busted...really worked it in an organized and systematic way. Was just as glad to get autos from single A players as major leaguers.

[ksfarmboy]

Mickey Mantle ruined it for me when I was a kid. Most of the ones I have were personally obtained at shows in the late 70's, early 80's. The others I have are ones that nobody would fake like local minor league ones. Now there are so many fakes and I don't know or care to learn the difference between real and fake. I have no problem with collecting them they are just not for me. As the previous poster said the ones I got at shows take me back to when my dad and I used to go. The memory means more than the auto.

[margoaepi]

I am an autograph collector and I enjoy it more than cards because I like the idea that the player has had some connection with the item. I understand its not for everyone, and I am still learning, but I truly enjoy it.

To Tim, if you "have always looked at these people as equals, not some God-Like figure who is any better than me or anyone else, so I have never really gotten the obscession that people have with autographs of famous people/athletes", then isn't it a little weird for you to want the likeness on cardboard? I'm just saying . . .

(I see that I am echoing David's point, but I still think its a fair question)

[Tim Kindler]

David, Perezfan, and Josh,
Points well taken. Let me say again that when I posed my question: Do You Collect Autographs and Why? I clearly stated at the end I was curious to hear everyone's thoughts. I wasn't implying that if you collect autographs that there is something wrong with it and you are crazy idolizing someone like a teenage girl at a Justin Beiber concert, I just wondered why people collect them. My comment on "Godlike" status of those in which we collect autographs from, probably wasn't clearly stated by me, and I don't know if I can clearly state it at all, but what I'm trying to say is that when SOME (NOT ALL) autograph collectors clamour and pay hundreds of dollars to get someone's autograph, you can't tell me that these people feel like they have a status that is above the person seeking the autograph. Now I do get that when we buy a card, jersey, etc, of say A-ROD or somebody, I guess we are essentially doing the same thing....like I said point well taken.
There is one difference in cards as related to autographs and that is that there aren't nearly the amount of fake/fraudulant cards out there as there are fake/fraudulant autographs and the ones that are are certainly more easily detected than bad autographs and fake letters of authenticities.

Good topic to debate on and again, I'm just curious on peoples' thoughts; not criticizing any of us on what we collect and I'm especially not criticizing anyone who collects autographs, I have a few from my childhood.

Tim

[Jay Wolt]

I collect signed checks be it personal or business to me they are
a bit safer, authenticity wise then buying a file card or a photo.

Here are a couple of Catfish Hunter Yankees & A's payroll checks
both endorsed on the back by Catfish.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Tim Kindler

There is one difference in cards as related to autographs and that is that there aren't nearly the amount of fake/fraudulant cards out there as there are fake/fraudulant autographs and the ones that are are certainly more easily detected than bad autographs and fake letters of authenticities.[emphasis added]

Really?

[Tim Kindler]

The only basis I have to say that is that the FBI says that 90% of autographs out there are fake. So, if people are being fooled 90% of the time, then they must be harder to detect. Look I'm not claiming to be an expert, just basing my comment on that stat. But I've been wrong before.

[JimH5]

I collect autographs because they are a personal connection to the person who signed it. Plus, each one is unique to itself, they display beautifully with a photo, and often are artistic on their own.

There's always a risk that I'm buying something that isn't authentic, but if I buy from trusted dealers within the hobby, and if I maintain a basic knowledge of what something is supposed to look like, that's enough for me.

I collected gum cards when I was a kid, and I still enjoy them, but the value of specific cards is usually only appreciated by other collectors. I can show off an autograph to a friend or someone in my family and they get a kick out of seeing something signed by Cobb vs. seeing something made by a card company.

[steve B]

I only have a few, but not just baseball. I've sold off some of the ones that didn't mean much to me, mostly stuff I bought rather than got in person.

Others I have are ones I've run across in odd ways. While those could be fake, I'd be very surprised if they were.
Johnny Most - 3x5 ish card from a live radio appearance
Happy Rockefeller - Postcard to a friend while honeymooning.
Bob Cousy - faded sig on a very worn black and white 8x10 Not basketball, but some sports club portrait.

None of those cost much at all, I think the Cousy was the most expensive at $2-3

A few authors I like sell signed first editions directly, and for almost nothing above the price of the book. (What's the rarest Terry Pratchett book? An unsigned first edition! Joke from a fan site..)

One of the most fun after Brooks Robinson And Bob Feller was Neil Gaiman. My sister was really into his sandman series of comics and he was doing a signing at a comic shop local to me. About a 2 hour line, and he stayed later than advertised to take care of everyone who was in line at the "closing time" I got the new graphic novel for her, and a comic for me. For the books he was doing personalisations and a quick sketch of a character. When I told him her name for the personlisation he gave me an odd look and said I didn't look like I matched the name. So I explained that I was getting it for her since she lived 3 hours away. He seemed a bit surprised that I'd spent 2 hours waiting to get the book signed for someone else. Especially since I was only a casual reader. It must have actually been odd, since I got a sketch on the comic, something he hadn't done for anyone else even on request. (One guy pressed the issue and was told to be a bit less cheap! )

Steve B

[Jewish-collector]

I am a huge collector of Jewish Sports memorabilia, particularly correspondences, letters & autographs. Over the last dozen or so years, I have written to many former Jewish athletes, not only from the major sports, but particularly from the minor sports like fencing, track & field, rowing, etc,… where a lot of the older athletes were Jewish. When I wrote to them, I wouldn’t so much ask them about their athletic achievements, but rather more of their “Jewishness”. My questions asked things like “how observant were you”, “what was it like being a Jewish athlete at that time”, “had you experienced any anti-semitism”, etc,… Some of the letters from these former athletes are very interesting and I'd like to send copies to some of the Jewish museums and Jewish Sports HOFs.

How I got started: Back in the mid-1990’s, I received a gift-certificate from one of the book stores. I decided to use the gift certificate on the book, When Boxing was a Jewish Sport”. It was a fascinating history of Jewish boxers in the 1920’s thru 1940’s. After I read it, I decided to research & acquire autographs from some of the guys depicted in the book, who were still alive. Then, from there, (and I’m not sure how/why it happened) but I ended up interested in Jewish athletes from all sports, the major sports like baseball and football to the lesser popular sports like golf, gymnastics, lacrosse, swimming, etc,… I have since slowed down with the hobby over the last few years, though. It was getting too time consuming and too expensive with stamps.

Alan

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Really?

You don't think there are more fake autos on eBay at this moment than there are fake cards? What percentage of autos do you guess are forged?

I've personally never seen, or even heard of, completely fake cards of the players I collect (pre-1970 Minnesota Twins, primarily Killebrew, primarily Topps, primarily slabbed). Wait, I take that back - I think I've seen one (a faked Bazooka card). But I've seen what I think are fake autos for just about any of them. For that matter, it seems there are fakes out there of just about any player that's ever played.

As others have stated, if I need to spend some inordinate amount of time educating myself on whether an autograph of Rob Wilfong or Dave Boswell or Cesar Tovar is real or not, then it's not the hobby for me. I have too many other hobbies that I enjoy that are much less work.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Tim Kindler

The only basis I have to say that is that the FBI says that 90% of autographs out there are fake. So, if people are being fooled 90% of the time, then they must be harder to detect. Look I'm not claiming to be an expert, just basing my comment on that stat. But I've been wrong before.

And you're wrong again.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Karl Mattson

You don't think there are more fake autos on eBay at this moment than there are fake cards? What percentage of autos do you guess are forged?

I've personally never seen, or even heard of, completely fake cards of the players I collect (pre-1970 Minnesota Twins, primarily Killebrew, primarily Topps, primarily slabbed). Wait, I take that back - I think I've seen one (a faked Bazooka card). But I've seen what I think are fake autos for just about any of them. For that matter, it seems there are fakes out there of just about any player that's ever played.

As others have stated, if I need to spend some inordinate amount of time educating myself on whether an autograph of Rob Wilfong or Dave Boswell or Cesar Tovar is real or not, then it's not the hobby for me. I have too many other hobbies that I enjoy that are much less work.

Who cares whether a Dave Boswell signature is forged? Get one in person. I'm talking about vintage material--Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Wagner, Young,... The vast majority of those forgeries are quite easily detected, if you know what you're doing. (And getting to the point where you know what you're doing is one of the pleasures of collecting. Although not easy, I wouldn't call it "work.")

[Tim Kindler]

David,
Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

Seriously, debating on this board in a good spirited manner can be fun and informational. I started this thread just to pick the peoples' minds of those who collect autographs since I'm one who doesn't. Unfortunately for any of us collectors, it can be a scary thing at times with so much garbage, and horrible, dishonest people willing to sell their souls to make a buck.

Anyway, happy collecting everbody and keep pursuing your passions.
Tim

[parker1b2]

I enjoy collecting autographs as I feel it is important part of my memorabilia collection and really enjoy it. I got out of collecting cards in the mid 90s when too many different types were hitting the market and was no longer fun for me. But as someone said collect what you like. I would prefer to get items signed in person, but with deceseased players that is impossible. I do have a goal in life, although will almost never hit it, but to get an autograph from every baseball HOF.

Oh and Scott Garner, I have heard so many horror stories from Albert "don't call me Joey" Belle, but when my brother, me and a whole bunch of other kids at the time met him outside the Skydome when he was with Cleveland, he couldn't have been nicer. Signed for everyone for about an hour and was nice. Signed 3 times for me. But that is the only good experience I think anyone ever had with him.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by parker1b2

Oh and Scott Garner, I have heard so many horror stories from Albert "don't call me Joey" Belle, but when my brother, me and a whole bunch of other kids at the time met him outside the Skydome when he was with Cleveland, he couldn't have been nicer. Signed for everyone for about an hour and was nice. Signed 3 times for me. But that is the only good experience I think anyone ever had with him.

I never really had any problem here in Cleveland with Albert either. Maybe we were just lucky. Albert could be the nicest person in the world when he wanted to be, unfortunately he had a very short fuse. If he didn't have a good game, or even if a reporter asked him the wrong question in the locker room after the game, you'd have been better off to stay away. Problem is, you never knew which Albert you were getting. Dealing with Albert was like trying to pet a stray dog, sometimes it works out, and other times you're gonna get bit.

Anyways, here in Cleveland we were lucky to have some very classy and accessible players back in the 90's. Omar, Nagy, Thome, Sandy Alomar, so on and so on. Just hanging out near the parking lot you were guaranteed great auto's. Anyone from the best player to the worst. They all signed.

[mjkm90]

I greatly appreciate autographs and have collected a couple dozen over the years of retired players. While I have not purchased any new examples in years due to a shift in interest to other display pieces, I would not shy away from them. I agree with several posters here that some of the fun would be the education process regarding authentic signatures and the hunt.

A little side bar here. There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

I greatly appreciate autographs and have collected a couple dozen over the years of retired players. While I have not purchased any new examples in years due to a shift in interest to other display pieces, I would not shy away from them. I agree with several posters here that some of the fun would be the education process regarding authentic signatures and the hunt.

A little side bar here. There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

Mike,
I couldn't agree with you more re: celebrity penmanship rapidly fading. FWIW, there are so few current athletes that have an autograph that you can even read that it really makes you wonder if it's even worth getting them at all....

Maybe it's all part of a master plan to create an autograph that no collector would even want...

My own opinion is that our current incessant use of computers and PDA's has distanced us from the practice of the art of writing writing with a pen. I actually think of this every time I attempt to write something longhand; my penmanship has taken a serious hit due to lack of practice. When you think about it, the younger athlete has mostly spent their life using computers and a keyboard to complete school projects that our generation always did in longhand with a pen...

I believe that is one of the reasons that I am drawn to vintage autographs signed with a steel-tipped fountain pen and great penmanship.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I never really had any problem here in Cleveland with Albert either. Maybe we were just lucky. Albert could be the nicest person in the world when he wanted to be, unfortunately he had a very short fuse. If he didn't have a good game, or even if a reporter asked him the wrong question in the locker room after the game, you'd have been better off to stay away. Problem is, you never knew which Albert you were getting. Dealing with Albert was like trying to pet a stray dog, sometimes it works out, and other times you're gonna get bit.

Anyways, here in Cleveland we were lucky to have some very classy and accessible players back in the 90's. Omar, Nagy, Thome, Sandy Alomar, so on and so on. Just hanging out near the parking lot you were guaranteed great auto's. Anyone from the best player to the worst. They all signed.

Jonathan and David,
I've been collecting in person autographs for long enough that I know that anyone can have a good or a bad day. I've always believed that approach and timing are everything with regards to successfully "getting your man" (or woman).

I had always heard from other fellow autograph hawks in So Cal that Belle was one of the genuine "toughees" to get in person. Albert had established himself as an impact player with his 50- 50 season in 1995 (50 HR's and 52 Doubles). I took it on as a challenge to try to get him in 1996.

As part of my job as a National Sales Manager for a pharmaceutical company I trained many of my incoming sales reps at the Doubletree Hotel in Anaheim, California. The Doubletree was and still is the place that many visiting teams stayed at when coming in to play the California Angels. As circumstance would have it, I was training one of my new sales reps when the visiting Indians were in town at the tail end of the season. Experience had taught me that Doubletree was always a great place to get visiting player autographs as it was away from the stadium and eliminated competition and conflict from the equation. Anyway, I attempted to get Albert as he was leaving the Doubletree on the way to the stadium. Albert was the last of the Indians to leave the hotel and he was by himself. I spotted him from across the lobby and followed him out the front door where he was standing alone waiting for a cab. There literally wasn't anyone else but Albert and me for 75 feet in any direction. Normally an ideal setup to get your autograph. I asked him politely if he would mind signing a ball for me. His response was a screwed up, pissed off face and he yelled at me "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, MAN!!" I said no problem, and that was the all she wrote.

Over the years I have asked literally hundreds of people for their autographs. I have been shut down by a few (seriously not many), but have always at least been treated politely. I'm happy to hear that both of you had quality experiences with Albert. I absolutely did not.... Yikes!!

[parker1b2]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Jonathan and David,
I've been collecting in person autographs for long enough that I know that anyone can have a good or a bad day. I've always believed that approach and timing are everything with regards to successfully "getting your man" (or woman).

I had always heard from other fellow autograph hawks in So Cal that Belle was one of the genuine "toughees" to get in person. Albert had established himself as an impact player with his 50- 50 season in 1995 (50 HR's and 52 Doubles). I took it on as a challenge to try to get him in 1996.

As part of my job as a National Sales Manager for a pharmaceutical company I trained many of my incoming sales reps at the Doubletree Hotel in Anaheim, California. The Doubletree was and still is the place that many visiting teams stayed at when coming in to play the California Angels. As circumstance would have it, I was training one of my new sales reps when the visiting Indians were in town at the tail end of the season. Experience had taught me that Doubletree was always a great place to get visiting player autographs as it was away from the stadium and eliminated competition and conflict from the equation. Anyway, I attempted to get Albert as he was leaving the Doubletree on the way to the stadium. Albert was the last of the Indians to leave the hotel and he was by himself. I spotted him from across the lobby and followed him out the front door where he was standing alone waiting for a cab. There literally wasn't anyone else but Albert and me for 75 feet in any direction. Normally an ideal setup to get your autograph. I asked him politely if he would mind signing a ball for me. His response was a screwed up, pissed off face and he yelled at me "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME, MAN!!" I said no problem, and that was the all she wrote.

Over the years I have asked literally hundreds of people for their autographs. I have been shut down by a few (seriously not many), but have always at least been treated politely. I'm happy to hear that both of you had quality experiences with Albert. I absolutely did not.... Yikes!!

Now that sounds like most of the Albert Belle stories I have heard...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by parker1b2

Now that sounds like most of the Albert Belle stories I have heard...

Yeah, that sounds like most I've heard as well. Luckily, I never had one of those experiences.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

I believe that is one of the reasons that I am drawn to vintage autographs signed with a steel-tipped fountain pen and great penmanship.

Absolutely, Scott.

(BTW, fountain pen nibs were (and still are) made of gold, not steel. Kinda makes ya wonder--if JSA knows so little about writing implements... )

[mr2686]

I love collecting autographs. There's just something about having an item that you know was touched and "created" by the player. I started collecting autographs as a kid at Dodger games. Morphed in to collecting only Hall of famers in the 80's and 90's, but have now turned my attention to autographs of members of famous teams. Every once in awhile, when I have a bad experience with a player at a show, I wonder why I still collect. Then, something happens that reminds me. Last week, I sent an autograph request to Tex Clevenger from the 61 Yankees. I sent a letter asking him to sign two enclosed 3x5 cards (one just in case the first one was smudged etc). He not only signed both perfectly, he also enclosed a signed Ron Lewis postcard and a 1963 Topps card. He response came back within a week. Honestly, I couldn't have been happier if I had found a great price on an authentic Babe Ruth autograph.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

(BTW, fountain pen nibs were (and still are) made of gold, not steel.

That's not entirely true. They can be made of either metal. I've owned several of both.

[HexsHeroes]

.
For me, it’s about the thrill of the hunt, the joy of success, and the pain of the loss. For some, it’s about being passionate about something that touches a memory or inter-vibe. For many, it’s about the beauty, the ownership, and the fraternity.

I’ve always loved vintage baseball; even as a youth. I often had “games” featuring lineups of vintage all-stars versus modern stars. Bob Gibson versus Ty Cobb. Christy Mathewson versus Mickey Mantle. And there was no doubt that I was bias towards the vintage stars. So vintage card collecting was a natural fit.

But my ah-ha moment regarding vintage autographs occurred the day I heard of the passing of 1940’s Detroit Tigers pitcher Johnny Gorsica. For whatever reason, that news stung. At that moment, I had recalled that Sports Collectors digest had published an interview with Johnny G. just a summer or two prior. I realized upon hearing that news that many physical links to vintage baseballs pass were being lost nearly every day. That the individuals who played against historic baseballs best, and who could tell personal stories of such encounters, were dying off. And I felt a need to save a physical part of those ballplayers. Something they touched. Something they shared. And so started my efforts to collect the autographs of vintage Detroit Tigers ballplayers (which evolved to include other Tigers team personnel too).

Thirteen or so years later, I’m still at it. I have my good days, and then those days when I consider giving up the pursuit. It’s gotten to the point where a successful collecting year is now defined by being able to cross just one name off my want list. Not that the year was a complete failure. There are certainly all of those wonderful and rarely encountered non-Tigers autographs (or duplicates) that were added to my collection.

Forgeries are a problem. No doubt about it. But that is just one of the obstacles or challenges encountered in the hunt. But like many long term hunts (passions), an education process has occurred. I’d like to think that I am alittle better at judging the possible genuineness of an autograph than when I first started. I certainly would not pass myself as an expert or as being even minimally qualified to authenticate. There are too many talented individuals in the world, who have far reaching access to vintage materials and tools, and world-wide markets for effectively selling their misrepresented goods. I’d like to believe (foolishly?) that those individuals have focused their efforts on reproducing autographed items with the greatest dollar return (collector/dealer demand), and not the very obscure, and/or thinly collected. So if it were true that 90% of all autographs are forgeries, I pray that the percentage of obscure/thinly collected autographs forgeries might be just an extremely small portion of that 90% figure. It is quite possible that some of the obscure individual autographs I have obtained were not actually signed by those individuals. I would be a fool to think otherwise. But that does not deter me because as long as the passion burns and my memory of the passing of Johnny Gorsica remains fresh, I continue to hunt and to look forward to success.

[tinkereversandme]

I disagree with David in that if something is forged 90% of the time, like a Babe Ruth signature (which I have come to understand is a roughly accurate number) and the people that we most often go to to get our opinions aren't doing the hobby justice (crooked?), then how can this be a healthy collectibles area and how can there be buyer confidence down the line?

If you know what you are doing, you should be safe, but how will you convince someone down the road that you differ in the education you have had in coming to the conclusion that it's authentic that differs from all the rest of the crooks?

You also won't convince anyone that there is just as much fraud in cards as autographs. Trimming, sure, some and overgrading, yes, but an overgraded card still has value, as a forgery has none.

As far as the question at hand: I used to have great joy in waiting in autograph lines to obtain my signatures in person, but today, the prices, attitudes and even mentioned here, the look of the signatures mean little to me. My heroes are dead and if I had a choice between a Ruth signature and a Ruth 1933 Goudey (equal value), I would go for the card.

Regards,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

I collect some. For modern era I prefer the mfg certified and issued cards. I mean, where else can you get a genuine sig of a HOFer for $10-$20? Great value for the collector IMO.

I also collect sigs I get in person.

I have a few vintage sigs of people who've done something I admire, like several of the 506th PIR (Band of Brothers) soldiers from WWII.

And I have several sigs of my cousin in various formats:

1951 Topps Ringside card, contract and TLS referencing autographing Topps Ringside cards:







Poster, secretarially signed:



Autographed photo:

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

There are several guys playing today who's signature I would love to have, but you cant read the damn things. I don't want any autographs in my collection that a person off the street can't make out with a little effort. Penmanship is a rapidly fading away. Does this bother any of you?

+1

I was disappointed to meet a few guys who were nice but whose penmanship was so poor that I had no idea what I was seeing. Shawn Green is one. Nice guy, rotten signature. A bunch of circular squiggles. Terrible Terry Norris (boxer) too. Super amenable, nicest fellow you could ever hope to meet but he must write in Chinese.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by JBirkholm

That's not entirely true. They can be made of either metal. I've owned several of both.

Good ones are, and always have been, gold. Cheap $2.00 Schaefer cartridge pens are steel. You'd be hard-pressed to find a 1920s-vintage pen with anything but a gold nib. Either way, JSA's statement that an item was signed with a "steel-tipped fountain pen" is absurd; there's no way to tell what the nib was made of (although the most likely metal is gold.) I maintain it's just another example (albeit a small one) of authenticator ignorance.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by HexsHeroes

.
For me, it’s about the thrill of the hunt, the joy of success, and the pain of the loss. For some, it’s about being passionate about something that touches a memory or inter-vibe. For many, it’s about the beauty, the ownership, and the fraternity.

I’ve always loved vintage baseball; even as a youth. I often had “games” featuring lineups of vintage all-stars versus modern stars. Bob Gibson versus Ty Cobb. Christy Mathewson versus Mickey Mantle. And there was no doubt that I was bias towards the vintage stars. So vintage card collecting was a natural fit.

But my ah-ha moment regarding vintage autographs occurred the day I heard of the passing of 1940’s Detroit Tigers pitcher Johnny Gorsica. For whatever reason, that news stung. At that moment, I had recalled that Sports Collectors digest had published an interview with Johnny G. just a summer or two prior. I realized upon hearing that news that many physical links to vintage baseballs pass were being lost nearly every day. That the individuals who played against historic baseballs best, and who could tell personal stories of such encounters, were dying off. And I felt a need to save a physical part of those ballplayers. Something they touched. Something they shared. And so started my efforts to collect the autographs of vintage Detroit Tigers ballplayers (which evolved to include other Tigers team personnel too).

Thirteen or so years later, I’m still at it. I have my good days, and then those days when I consider giving up the pursuit. It’s gotten to the point where a successful collecting year is now defined by being able to cross just one name off my want list. Not that the year was a complete failure. There are certainly all of those wonderful and rarely encountered non-Tigers autographs (or duplicates) that were added to my collection.

Forgeries are a problem. No doubt about it. But that is just one of the obstacles or challenges encountered in the hunt. But like many long term hunts (passions), an education process has occurred. I’d like to think that I am alittle better at judging the possible genuineness of an autograph than when I first started. I certainly would not pass myself as an expert or as being even minimally qualified to authenticate. There are too many talented individuals in the world, who have far reaching access to vintage materials and tools, and world-wide markets for effectively selling their misrepresented goods. I’d like to believe (foolishly?) that those individuals have focused their efforts on reproducing autographed items with the greatest dollar return (collector/dealer demand), and not the very obscure, and/or thinly collected. So if it were true that 90% of all autographs are forgeries, I pray that the percentage of obscure/thinly collected autographs forgeries might be just an extremely small portion of that 90% figure. It is quite possible that some of the obscure individual autographs I have obtained were not actually signed by those individuals. I would be a fool to think otherwise. But that does not deter me because as long as the passion burns and my memory of the passing of Johnny Gorsica remains fresh, I continue to hunt and to look forward to success.

Well said, Vincent!!

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I was disappointed to meet a few guys who were nice but whose penmanship was so poor that I had no idea what I was seeing. Shawn Green is one. Nice guy, rotten signature.

Todd Helton is another. His signature isn't that far off of Green's, but there is at least a method to Todd's madness. Shawn's makes no sense whatsoever. Pujols is another that kinda bothers me, his signature just seems lazy. I also hate when players use just their initials. Manny Ramirez does that alot, Kenny Lofton and Frank Thomas both seemed to go through periods of time where they'd just basically initial things..

[margoaepi]

Sean Green was an incredibly nice guy, and I honestly don't think his sig is that bad. For me, the sig that I was most excited to get and the most disappointed to receive was Ryne Sandberg . . . beyond illegible.

[perezfan]

This one (a future HOFer) has always struck my funny bone...

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by perezfan

This one (a future HOFer) has always struck my funny bone...

Isn't that signature a piece of crap? I'll fork over $200 for that (not!)

[margoaepi]

Who is that? It's terrible!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Most Asian players take a bit more pride in their signature than Ichiro. Matsuzaka nearly followed in Suzuki's footsteps with his terrible penmanship. You're looking at $125-250 to have that scribble added to your collectible.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Just to think that it all started out with: