1982 Topps Blackless

[bswhiten]

Just sharing some of my 82 Blackless stars/HOF's...always looking for more hof graded or raw. Trying to get a full 82 HOF set. I know it is unlikely with the Ryan and Henderson being so $$$ but i'll try

[ALR-bishop]

It is a tough set. At one point I knew a few other people working on the whole set. The Ryan and Henderson are tough because of player collectors, but not the hardest to find in all Blackless ( no gray ). The A sheet cards are the easiest. When I was building the set the theory was C sheet cards were toughest. But Bs can be pretty hard as well.

The Blackless cards were distributed in packs at retail. The As seem to have showed up in NY and the Bs and Cs in Micihigan. The main sellers I used were in those states. Good luck in your quest

[bswhiten]

Thanks Al!
So do you know if they were only in wax or rack at retail? or both? I would guess that a lot of people had them/probably still do and don't know they have them...

[ALR-bishop]

I bought all of mine on the secondary market, but Stevelee, who collects and sells them regularly ( on eBay), believes they were mostly found in cellos, and maybe some from vending. He is unaware of them coming from wax or rack packs

[glynparson]

I am 100% sure I pulled a blackless fisk all star from a wax pack bought at mr. Food in Wyomissing PA in 1982 when I was 10 years old. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was the only one I have ever owned. I sold it to a Fisk collector when I was a full time dealer around 1997 or so.

[bswhiten]

Wow. That's pretty cool that you remember opening the pack and seeing it as a kid. I'm quite sure I would have not realized what I had pulled if that was my ten year old self

[EGreenwood]

Like Glynparson, I remember pulling a blank backs. I pulled a pair (Mookie Wilson and Hubie Brooks) in Rowland Heights, CA. I still have them. I am on the look out for a number of commons.

egreenwo

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Reviving an old thread here. I didn't even know these existed until 2017 or so. I have a couple dozen, but I don't have any of the big ones yet. These are some of the cards I have picked up more recently along with the standard 82s for comparison. It's weird, but I am really getting into these and also am starting to notice the '84 Topps encased. All these years I didn't realize there was so much fun and affordable stuff in my favorite decade to collect!

Some of the scans uploaded sideways, and I am too tired to fix them...

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[holybull]

Anyone have a Johnny Bench Blackless for sale?

[robw]

Anyone looking to sell HOFers or All-Stars?

[clydepepper]

Ok. I'm still not understanding what makes a card 'blackless'

Most of the ones posted have the color black included on their fronts.


Please explain.


.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Ok. I'm still not understanding what makes a card 'blackless'

Most of the ones posted have the color black included on their fronts.


Please explain.


.

I'm no expert and didn't even know these existed until net54, but....... I think the photos themselves aren't effected. It's the signatures, positions, and black line border around the photo that's missing.

[Exhibitman]

Blackless cards are a long-time staple of error collecting; the 1982s simply have more examples.

[ALR-bishop]

What got Blacless notoriety is Lemke listed them a separate set in the SCD Standard Catalog back when it listed post 80 issues. As a result PSA began stabbing them.

They are not really variations, just print defects but the problem occurred on 3 entire sheets , A, B and C, so there are at least 396 in a "set". There are some variants among the 396 as well, even among full blackless versions.

Some blackless cards from the D sheet have shown up on eBay, but it is not clear if all cards from that sheet can be found blackless or that the defects occurred on multiple sheets or as many times as was the case with the A,B and C cards.

B and C sheet blackless cards seem scarcer than A cards. D sheet examples are apparently even more scarce. The A, B and C blackless cards all showed up in packs. I think A and Bs in Michigan and C in NY. Not sure if Ds could be found in packs or where

Agree with Adam such blackless defects show up in other years, but apparently not to the same recurring extent over such a large number of cards as in 1982. I also have some examples from 68 and 71 like those he posted.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Awesome, awesome stuff, guys! I am a child of the 80s. I have often lamented the fact that my decade started the whole junk wax era. For quite a while, I didn't know there was anything worthwhile to collect from the 80s. Then, I found out about items like '82 Blackless. I have a few but not as many as I wish I had. I probably need to hit those harder.

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[ALR-bishop]

In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards

Al, you have mentioned those previously, and I am glad you did. I wouldn't have known about them otherwise. Admittedly, I only have some of the '82 Blackless. However, I am increasingly drawn to collecting players from my era, that I watched. I know there were great players of the past, and I have spent time and money collecting them. However, there's just something more special about collecting players from my own childhood, even if the perceived value isn't that much.

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[West]

I find the 1980-1990 era very rewarding to collect. Although some of the period pre-dates me (born in '85), I know all the players and you can still find a lot of unopened at reasonable prices. Not a huge fan of the design of most of the sets from 1991-1994 and I simply can't keep track of all the sets that inundated the market after '94.

[ALR-bishop]

James-- agree on the Met/Yankees DHs as another tough one. Even tougher are the prototypes of that test issue.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

In my experience the toughest 80s Topps sets for me to assemble ( as listed in SCD), were the 82 Blackless, 84 Encased ( head in box prototype proofs), 85 minis in blank bank, regular back and red only back ( have not finished the red backs), the 88 Cloth and 89 Big Head Suckers . The 80 coins were the toughest but are not cards

Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.

Back when I was selling a ton of cards in the late 90's I had a chance to buy a case of the 89 Mets/Yankees. I passed and bought a few cases of the 89 & 90 All-Stars instead. Wish I would have bought them all.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Back when I was selling a ton of cards in the late 90's I had a chance to buy a case of the 89 Mets/Yankees. I passed and bought a few cases of the 89 & 90 All-Stars instead. Wish I would have bought them all.

Ouch

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Jim65

Not really cards either but I would put the 1988 Mets/Yankees Doubleheaders. The 1989's are tough (Not the All-Stars but the Mets/Yankees test) too but not as tough as the '88s.

....and I have learned something yet again! Thanks, Jim. I had NO idea these things existed. I know Net54 is largely a prewar site, but you guys are dropping some serious knowledge here on the modern board. I am very interested in these along with the other issues mentioned.

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[Tripredacus]

Ok back to the 1982 regular set blackless situation. Since I was reminded of this thread, I have been checking my 1982 cards (they are scattered about, so it is no simple task) and so far have not run into anything them... maybe...

So far all of the examples of the (accepted) Blackless have been either the regular player cards or the All Star versions. None of In Action, Team leaders or Checklists.

When I went through mine, I only have all 6 checklists. 1-3 are "blackless" (ie they are missing the black border around the photo frame) although they may have orange or red frame and 4-6 are normal.

#129 - Checklist 1-132
#226 - Checklist 133-264
#394 - Checklist 265-396
#491 - Checklist 397-528
#634 - Checklist 529-660
#789 - Checklist 661-792

Quick look on ebay active listings, results:
129 - none have black frame
226 - none have black frame, some have light orange frame
394 - all have orange or red frame
491 - all have black frame
634 - all have black frame
789 - all have black frame

Here is an ebay listing (not mine) that has a good look at all 6, you can definately see a trend between the first three and the second three.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173989561330

I will try to remember to get a scan of the ones I have.

[jwilly]

I am looking to find a '82 Blackless Johnny Bench. Anyone knows if one is for sale please let me know.

[bswhiten]

What is the deal with the Carlton Fisk #111 In Action card? I know i have read that it was a D sheet but how does PSA have 4 of them graded??? I guess there is a possibility that some of the D sheets are blackless too? Maybe D sheet defects just not recurring like Al says above I guess.
Cal Ripken Blackless....wow

There is clearly Black on the highest graded example...

[bswhiten]

So much for collecting just the Blackless HOF players and stars.
Just picked this up Has been in a cabinet for the past 25 or so years.
They look like they just came out of a pack. Super excited.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

So much for collecting just the Blackless HOF players and stars.

Just picked this up Has been in a cabinet for the past 25 or so years.

They look like they just came out of a pack. Super excited.

Have mercy!!!

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[swarmee]

Say what? Big pickup for a modern variation collector.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

So much for collecting just the Blackless HOF players and stars.
Just picked this up Has been in a cabinet for the past 25 or so years.
They look like they just came out of a pack. Super excited.

Wow

[roarfrom34]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

So much for collecting just the Blackless HOF players and stars.
Just picked this up Has been in a cabinet for the past 25 or so years.
They look like they just came out of a pack. Super excited.

Wow, I do remember Tom Galik who back in the day had one of the best shops I had ever been in (he also did shows in the Northeast). He had one heck of a Pete Rose collection and specialized in "odd ball" items, so I'm not surprised he had this set.

[ALR-bishop]

Stars like Ryan and Henderson and Bret are usually pricey but one of the more expensive cards for me in putting the set together was Jack Morris. I think because it was difficult to find in all blackless without any gray traces

[bswhiten]

Originally Posted by roarfrom34

Wow, I do remember Tom Galik who back in the day had one of the best shops I had ever been in (he also did shows in the Northeast). He had one heck of a Pete Rose collection and specialized in "odd ball" items, so I'm not surprised he had this set.

Awesome! Thanks for the insight.

[robw]

How many cards were in here? Incredible! Think I may have bought a card or two from you. So incredibly hard to find.

[robw]

Thought I was replying to the post about the box you picked up.

[bswhiten]

Originally Posted by robw

How many cards were in here? Incredible! Think I may have bought a card or two from you. So incredibly hard to find.

Hey Rob, I thought it was an incredible find too The entire set was in the box - 396 cards.

I haven't sold any of those but I probably will end up selling or trading the 25% or so of the set that I have in addition to the full set.

Are you collecting the set, a specific team, or player?

Ben

[bswhiten]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

... Trying to get a full 82 HOF set. I know it is unlikely with the Ryan and Henderson being so $$$ but i'll try

[ALR-bishop]

The Fisk IA is not included in the traditional checklist, although it did appear briefly in an early SCD Catalog checklist, which is maybe why PSA slabs it.

I do not know if all the D sheet cards can be found with some black missing. An ebay seller that was promoting blackless D sheet cards coined the term, blacklessing. As seen in my first post in this thread, the A,C and C sheet cards can be found with "blacklessing" gray features ( transition cards where some black was still present )

I have one of the Fisk IA cards where some black ink is missing. Use the links to see bigger photos



https://www.flickr.com/photos/170999...posted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/170999...posted-public/

[bswhiten]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

Just sharing some of my 82 Blackless stars/HOF's...always looking for more hof graded or raw. Trying to get a full 82 HOF set. I know it is unlikely with the Ryan and Henderson being so $$$ but i'll try

I thought I would share a contact sheet of scanned HOF’s and stars from my completed Blackless set.

I could care less about the assigned grade, but I am glad they are all well protected now.

They look great in a binder too!




Superior fit sleeves and 4 pocket pages...

[hockeyhockey]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

I thought I would share a contact sheet of scanned HOF’s and stars from my completed Blackless set.

I could care less about the assigned grade, but I am glad they are all well protected now.

They look great in a binder too!




Superior fit sleeves and 4 pocket pages...

wow, those are awesome. thanks for sharing the pics.

[bswhiten]

Would love to see examples of these if anyone has any.

I have the Cooper and have seen the Madlock and Cappuzello.

[Blackless Collector]

1982 Topps Bill Madlock Blackless Reverse.jpg

[Blackless Collector]

1982 Topps Tony armas Blackless reverse.jpg

[4reals]

Not Blackless completely, but def on its way. Here’s a blackless-ing (as some clever ebay sellers call them) sheet of the highly sought after C-sheet cards. Think I should keep intact or chop it up and piece out?











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[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by 4reals

Not Blackless completely, but def on its way. Here’s a blackless-ing (as some clever ebay sellers call them) sheet of the highly sought after C-sheet cards. Think I should keep intact or chop it up and piece out?











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I note the C sheet on ebay, looks very nice and "Blacklessing"

[ALR-bishop]

in tact

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by 4reals

Not Blackless completely, but def on its way. Here’s a blackless-ing (as some clever ebay sellers call them) sheet of the highly sought after C-sheet cards. Think I should keep intact or chop it up and piece out?











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I use a different word than clever. I would cut it up and sell individually.

Now I would only cut up if you know what you are doing and with proper equipment. I have cut up a lot of sheets and every card was exactly the same size when finished. I would never do a hack job om something like that, that would be horrible.

[bswhiten]

Great find! Keep as a sheet imo...

Is it faded? It looks like a lot of the other colors are losing color too. Maybe just my bad eyes.

[4reals]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

Great find! Keep as a sheet imo...

Is it faded? It looks like a lot of the other colors are losing color too. Maybe just my bad eyes.

It does have that appearance but no, not faded. It appears they were low on ink during this sheet print for other colors as well as certain small areas on some cards are missing ink.


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[bswhiten]

Originally Posted by 4reals

It appears they were low on ink during this sheet print for other colors as well as certain small areas on some cards are missing ink.

Maybe in addition to”Blacklessing” we could add “Colorlessing” too! Haha

Curious if there are Blackless cards that have other colors missing full coverage. I plan on looking through mine...