PSA Still Suffers from 1962 Green Tints-itis

[JollyElm]

As a 1962 Topps Green Tints aficionado, I started a thread a couple of years back concerning how many cards I found on ebay that were erroneously mislabeled as GT's by PSA. There were waaaaay too many. Today, for the hell of it I decided to take a cruise through the 'bay and see if things have changed. The first ridiculous thing I saw was how many sellers claim the cards they're selling (in slabs or ungraded) are GT's when they are not. Yowza!!!! Some are obviously mistaken, but others are clearly just frickin' liars. Next, I ran across quite a few PSA cards labeled as GT's that are clearly not the variations. I mean, who's overseeing things over there?? (It's probably worth noting that there are plenty of slabbed GT cards that aren't labeled as such, but that's simply because PSA didn't start denoting these green tint variations on the labels until much later on.) Look at the Ranew card with the bright blue sky, for cripes sake. Even a novice who knows nothing about these cards can see it's not a green tint!! And a bunch of these slabs are newer, so even in this day and age where they have tightened up their standards, they clearly haven't done enough to get the right people looking at the 1962 cards. Back in the day, I contacted them about this very problem, but their responses were just sort of boilerplate nothingness. Oh well. If you're looking for cards from this sub-set, remember to caveat your emptor!!!

These are NOT green tints:

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[swarmee]

I believe others have submitted green tint cards to PSA last year and were told they're no longer making a Green Tint determination, ostensibly because they're not good at telling them apart.

[ALR-bishop]

I has been some time since I put my green tint set together, is there much of a premium on green tint cards compared to their counterparts in the same condition ( putting aside pose variants ) ?

I know Darren has supplied some great side by side comparisons, and I know another collector who has done a full side by side comparison as well, but without such a guide or having one of each card in hand I get why graders and sellers could make mistakes.

I am not a graded collector but keep track of PSA Registry master set variations. They do not list the green tints as a whole in their master list. They do list the obvious pose or other differences. It is interesting though they list 134 Hoeft as having a blue and green sky variation.

Darren-- it would seem SCD or some other hobby publication would be interested in publishing your side by side comparisons.

[jchcollins]

Timely post. I'm considering doing a '62 set and was wondering this week whether doing the GT distinction was worth it at all. I had long speculated that graders even had trouble telling the difference. Is there a primer somewhere that someone could point me to on what is a GT and what is not and how to tell in cases where there are subtle differences?

As a funny aside, I remember an old quote where Mr. Mint Alan Rosen supposedly said that green tints were "stupid and ugly" and not worth collecting.

[BaltOrioles]

I only collect the Orioles and I'm no green tint expert, but I believe one way to tell the difference is the slight cropping differences between the regular and green tints. Other than the Hoeft, which is a completely different pose, all my other Orioles have cropping differences. Can anyone verify I'm not missing something. Attached are my Jackie Brandt cards as examples.

[jchcollins]

I did just find this, which apparently shows the detailed differences in each of the 89 cards:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

[riggs336]

Twenty years ago I put a green tint set together. Lacking any reference, I just compared listings on eBay to determine which version was the green tint. It took a while and tested my patience but it worked.

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I did just find this, which apparently shows the detailed differences in each of the 89 cards:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/obctom...7602774575697/

I relied on that page quite a bit when I was doing my '62 set. I decided that I would chase just the photo variations and also include a few selected pure GTs just as a sampling. I ended up with about 25 in all. One day I may make the effort to get the whole GT series run but now I have too many other things going on.

As to the OP...I'm not surprised. I don't pursue graded cards for the most part but I do use them as references. I gave up on relying on them for the '62 chase.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by commishbob

I relied on that page quite a bit when I was doing my '62 set. I decided that I would chase just the photo variations and also include a few selected pure GTs just as a sampling. I ended up with about 25 in all. One day I may make the effort to get the whole GT series run but now I have too many other things going on.

As to the OP...I'm not surprised. I don't pursue graded cards for the most part but I do use them as references. I gave up on relying on them for the '62 chase.

Cool. They are intriguing. I just bought raw copies of the regular Hoeft and the Hoeft greenie on eBay. Guess I'll see if they are still intriguing when they arrive!

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Timely post. I'm considering doing a '62 set and was wondering this week whether doing the GT distinction was worth it at all. I had long speculated that graders even had trouble telling the difference. Is there a primer somewhere that someone could point me to on what is a GT and what is not and how to tell in cases where there are subtle differences?

As a funny aside, I remember an old quote where Mr. Mint Alan Rosen supposedly said that green tints were "stupid and ugly" and not worth collecting.

cards are definitely harder to find in 7 condition for 62' but I'm out of the set building business. Only guys I "used" to like and then go on a run!!!!!!!

As for Mr Mint, probably one of the few times I agree with him.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Cool. They are intriguing. I just bought raw copies of the regular Hoeft and the Hoeft greenie on eBay. Guess I'll see if they are still intriguing when they arrive!

oh no, please don't make me look too!!!!

I HOPE Mr Mint was right afterall?

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by BaltOrioles

I only collect the Orioles and I'm no green tint expert, but I believe one way to tell the difference is the slight cropping differences between the regular and green tints. Other than the Hoeft, which is a completely different pose, all my other Orioles have cropping differences. Can anyone verify I'm not missing something. Attached are my Russ Snyder cards as examples.

Yup, the Brandt card on the right is the GT.

All of the green tints have slight (to less slight) cropping differences as compared to their 'regular' counterparts (obviously not including the pose variations). And it's a funny thing about the pose variations. Those cards were produced in the same numbers as all of the regular, same-pose GT cards. People seem to be under the impression that they are rarer, but they aren't. In other words, there are no 'regular pose' GT versions of the pose variation cards. For every 100 GT Stu Millers you find, there are 100 GT Wally Moon 'holding the bat' cards out there somewhere. (Sorry, if I seem to be talking in circles. I'm writing this quickly.)

Every green tint Hoeft card looks like this:
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And every regular Hoeft card looks like this:
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There isn't a GT version of the card featuring the second pose.

On a side note, late last night I pulled the trigger on the Ruth/Gehrig #140 green tint in PSA 7. That's a tough one due to the subject matter, and can get pretty pricey. The only PSA 8 I saw had a $500+ price tag. Yowza!!

[swarmee]

I like the Green Tint of Hoeft better because you can't see his "British" teeth.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I believe others have submitted green tint cards to PSA last year and were told they're no longer making a Green Tint determination, ostensibly because they're not good at telling them apart.

If only there was some kind of third party expert in determining what issue a card belongs to. Maybe they could help.

[LeftHandedDane]

I decided to take the plunge and collect the green tints about a year ago. I only have 3 left to go to complete the run. At first, I relied heavily on the wonderful side-by-side Flickr page that pointed out the differences for each card. But I found after a little while it got to be pretty easy to distinguish between the two, even for some of the more difficult cards (as long as the picture in the listing was halfway decent). I find it incomprehensible that a company like PSA would find themselves unable to quickly learn how to do this given it's their freaking business! That is embarrassing and shameful - especially given how much they charge for their "opinion" about the card.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

I decided to take the plunge and collect the green tints about a year ago. I only have 3 left to go to complete the run. At first, I relied heavily on the wonderful side-by-side Flickr page that pointed out the differences for each card. But I found after a little while it got to be pretty easy to distinguish between the two, even for some of the more difficult cards (as long as the picture in the listing was halfway decent). I find it incomprehensible that a company like PSA would find themselves unable to quickly learn how to do this given it's their freaking business! That is embarrassing and shameful - especially given how much they charge for their "opinion" about the card.

Cool, I may do the same with going after them. One, it sounds fairly affordable, and two, it would be a way to do something interesting with 1960's cards without only going after HOF'ers and beating my wallet (my usual approach).

Totally agree with you on PSA. I don't care what they say, their opinion on many things is often way more haphazard than it is anything "professional." There is a wealth more of knowledge about cards (and not to mention just specifically grading...) on this forum than I would venture in all of PSA.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by commishbob

I relied on that page quite a bit when I was doing my '62 set. I decided that I would chase just the photo variations and also include a few selected pure GTs just as a sampling. I ended up with about 25 in all. One day I may make the effort to get the whole GT series run but now I have too many other things going on.

As to the OP...I'm not surprised. I don't pursue graded cards for the most part but I do use them as references. I gave up on relying on them for the '62 chase.

Ha, Bob I was doing a random google search for 1962 Topps blogs, and came across yours and the entry about the last card in the set. Not even specifically about '62 Topps - but just wanted to say it looks like you have a very extensive and neat blog. I will have to revisit later when I have more time!

[ALR-bishop]

I asked earlier about what if any premiums applied to the GTs currently. It was my impression that even though the GT pose variations are not any scarcer than the other GTs, they brought a higher premium than the non pose GTs because of greater market demand. If you collect variations for master sets and do not view the GTs as true variations ( I do), you still need the pose variations, particularly if you are a registery collector.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I like the Green Tint of Hoeft better because you can't see his "British" teeth.

LOL if you think that's bad...

[swarmee]

We should make a vintage (50s-70s Topps) all-time team for the following features: janky teeth, unibrows, ears, and haircut...

[commishbob]

Originally Posted by swarmee

We should make a vintage (50s-70s Topps) all-time team for the following features: janky teeth, unibrows, ears, and haircut...

The Don Mossi All Stars

IMG.jpg

[LeftHandedDane]

Definitely one for the all-time eyebrow/unibrow team. Plus his nickname is "Noodles"!

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Just making sure that I am looking at these correctly. Those on the left, or top if you are viewing horizontally, are green tints, right?

[Promethius88]

The PSA 8 checklist in the original post DOES appear to be correctly labeled as a GT.

[swarmee]

Yes, the fuzzier versions of the cards are the Green Tints, vintagebaseballcardguy.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Thanks!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by vintagebaseballcardguy

Just making sure that I am looking at these correctly. Those on the left, or top if you are viewing horizontally, are green tints, right?

Yes. The Geiger card is one of the few noticeably "greener" ones, IMO.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

Definitely one for the all-time eyebrow/unibrow team. Plus his nickname is "Noodles"!

I think he was actually an extra on The Godfather. Noodles would have been used if Clemenza or Tessio wasn't available...

[Exhibitman]

Just wanted to say thanks to the green tint experts here. I picked up a collection recently and was able to ID a green tint in it using the guides here.

[JollyElm]

I saw this on ebay and it got me shaking my head. The Skinner card is a green tint (although not marked as such), but look how ridiculously short it is side to side. It appears to be missing about an eight of an inch of width!! I grabbed a scan of another 1962 card from the same seller, so the sizes would be comparable. Look how snug Boog is in the holder as compared to Bob with his huge gully on the right side. Yowza...

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[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

I saw this on ebay and it got me shaking my head. The Skinner card is a green tint (although not marked as such), but look how ridiculously short it is side to side. It appears to be missing about an eight of an inch of width!! I grabbed a scan of another 1962 card from the same seller, so the sizes would be comparable. Look how snug Boog is in the holder as compared to Bob with his huge gully on the right side. Yowza...

There are multiple GT cards that are notoriously short l/r....just off the top of my head three of the most commonly found short GT cards are Geiger, Naragon, and Brandt. There are several others that are not as frequent like the Skinner card.

Coincidentally, all of these cards as well as others (Ruth #139) that are occasionally short are all cards that appear to be along either side of the un-cut regular 1962 Topps sheet. So, assuming the GT's sheet is indeed laid out in the same format as the regular 62s, this would explain why the GT side edge cards are notoriously short l/r, poor QC with the GT printers.

Perhaps PSA realizes the above and this is why the Skinner (a side edge card) is graded and is not returned for being less than the minimum size.

[JollyElm]

For anyone who wants to dive into the frustrating 'thin green tint' mire, check out this thread I started a couple of years ago...
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=226221

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I believe others have submitted green tint cards to PSA last year and were told they're no longer making a Green Tint determination, ostensibly because they're not good at telling them apart.

This is terrible if so... I was hoping to get the label correctly updated with Green Tint and maybe even get lucky on a bump. I have a few others that deserve an opportunity to bump with centering to 8.5 at least as well. Have a look.









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.......



This is also currently at PSA being graded. Cannot wait to see the results.

[ALR-bishop]

Very nice cards Corey. It seems to me that if someone could just get PSA to adopt a guide, such as the one linked in post 6, they would be able to easily identify green tints from their counterparts.

[swarmee]

Call them and ask if they'll relabel. I don't think with the corner wear and off-centeredness, that it would get any bump.

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Call them and ask if they'll relabel. I don't think with the corner wear and off-centeredness, that it would get any bump.

Any opinion on the other 2 cards bumping?

[murphy8276]

Anyone have any success with PSA grading these again yet? I have been patiently waiting for 3 years to go for the top pop for Babe Ruth!

[JollyElm]

Suh-weet card!!!!

Careful, though, the 'drippy' bottom of the red book may get you a 'PD.' They have a penchant for slapping those qualifiers on green tints (or, more specifically, they certainly did in the days of the older labels). And the centering is probably a tad off top-to-bottom to meet the criteria for a 9?? Not being negative, just trying to examine it the way a grader would/should.

Look how these two extremely low pop cards got hit with the 'PD' stick...

1962score116PSA9PD2.jpg

[swarmee]

Yep, nice card, but I think it's a straight 7 based on top/bottom centering at 70/30.

[bobsbbcards]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

Anyone have any success with PSA grading these again yet? I have been patiently waiting for 3 years to go for the top pop for Babe Ruth!

Gorgeous card! They most definitely grade them (I have this same card there at the moment to be reholdered).

Here's a link to the 1962 Topps Green Tints showcase that I just created.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by bobsbbcards

Gorgeous card! They most definitely grade them (I have this same card there at the moment to be reholdered).

Here's a link to the 1962 Topps Green Tints showcase that I just created.

Cool showcase. I enjoyed virtually flipping through the pages of the album.

The green tints are a great variation to collect.

[insidethewrapper]

Bob: Very nice representation. If anyone has any questions between the Green Tints and Regular look at his post and the post # 6. Fantastic. I have the complete 1962 Topps Master Set. If you have any questions post them here and if you need an explanation on any of them I'll try to help. The checklists can cause problems so look at the above sites. Love this set and all the variations.