1968 Topps Milton Bradley question

[4reals]

I've been looking for a Dodgers Team card #168 and a Nate Oliver #124 of the parallel Milton Bradley set for a little while (I missed an Oliver on ebay about 6 mos ago). I know in the SCD description it says one way of telling these apart from the regular set is the gold vs. yellow backs and the white strip that sometimes appears at the edge of the cards due to it being printed on the same sheet as some white bordered material. This weekend I bought what I thought was a Milton Bradley Dodgers Team card (because of the white strip on the card edge) but I'm still not 100% sure. I'd appreciate you guys taking a look at the card below and letting me know if indeed I found a Milton Bradley example or if I swung and missed, thanks!

[cardinalcollector]

My gut feeling is that this is indeed a Milton Bradley card due to white border and brightness of the back. We have a MB expert on this board who will hopefully see this thread.

[bobbyw8469]

Milton Bradleys are EXTREMELY tough to differentiate. I have seen cards with the white stripe and the correct colored back not get the Milton Bradley designation and I have seen cards totally missing the white stripe and the wrong colored back get the Milton Bradley tag. Definite head scratchers for sure.

[ALR-bishop]

Joe-- Carlton Miller who posts here as goheels knows more about these than anyone I know. I sent him Email asking him to take a look. In a prior thread here discussing the Topps 1968 card design he discusses both front and back ways to distinguish them. There is also a good discussion in two not too distant past CU threads . But I think Carlton will be able to answer your question

[ncinin]

With the card in hand the Milton Bradley cards are not difficult to identify.

The border confuses some because on the regular Topps sheet cards printed at the border of the sheets have white showing if cut offcenter because the border is white. If a card in the middle of the sheet is offcenter you do not see white but the burlap of the next card since there are no white borders on the card.

On a MB sheet if a card is offcenter but not at the border of the sheet you see white from the 1967 Topps football card printed above or below.

If you have trouble with the color on the back simpy get a 1967 Topps football card and compare the color. Topps printed 1967 Topps football and 1968 Topps baseball for the MB game on the same sheet and the backs were printed all in the color of 1967 Topps football.

[4reals]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Carlton Miller who posts here as goheels knows more about these than anyone I know. I sent him Email asking him to take a look.

Originally Posted by ncinin

If you have trouble with the color on the back simpy get a 1967 Topps football card and compare the color. Topps printed 1967 Topps football and 1968 Topps baseball for the MB game on the same sheet and the backs were printed all in the color of 1967 Topps football.

Al - thanks for contact him for me, I appreciate it.

ncinin - thanks for the tip on '67 football. I have a couple lying around. Once I get the card in hand I'll compare them.

[Rich Klein]

Has a complete checklist of the 1968 Milton Bradley cards as an expert while I was there provided said list.

Rich

[ALR-bishop]

Rich--not clear to me what you are asking. I have the MB baseball set and the checklist for it from SCD, but not for the Football and hot rod cards. I think Carlton will have the complete list, since he has 4 or 5 complete games, and, I think, thousands of the cards. One thing I learned from him is that the SCD checklist for baseball is one card short. The CL card in the set was a double print. One version has fine mesh and the other wide mesh.

There is an MB discussion in this thread

http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=165264

[goheels]

No doubt it is an MB. The back is diagnostic, but also the border. I will post some detailed pics later but the cut line (thinner, off-white) which was intended as a marker to help cut half sheets in the regular 68 issue is often confused with the MB border. The controversy a few months back where PSA graded the Ryan as an MB happened because they confused a cut line with a true border. In the end the card was properly declassified as an MB.

On the Dodgers card the white border at the top is actually the lower part of the Kocourek 88 football card. Had the card been off centered to the top, therefore with a white border at the bottom, that would be part of the Mustang Karavan 17 Hot Rod card.

Cards on the extreme left and right ends of the sheet could have white borders, but so did the regular issue cards, if they were off centered. That would not be possible for this card as it occupied the 2nd from the left position in its row between the left most card (107 Check List Brown Fine Mesh) and the 3rd card in the row, Larry Jaster 117.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Incredible knowledge....Carlton, any nice finds in Chantilly last weekend?

[Rich Klein]

But we also had the Football MB cards in the Beckett DB.

Rich

[4reals]

Thanks for the diagnosis Carlton! I appreciate you responding to Al's email and stopping by the thread.

Al - the link you provided with the previous exchange on this topic was awesome! There is so much knowledge in this forum and that thread was a bone with lots of meat! Delicious.

[ALR-bishop]

Rich--I have always used SCD. Do you use both and if so which do you find most useful ?

[Rich Klein]

Beckett Almanac of Baseball Cards and Collectibles -- what answer do you think I have to give

In all seriousness, there was a lot we did I preferred at Beckett and some things Krause did I would have liked to have done (larger print)

But I know this board was primarily a standard catalog board but I did so much of my own work that we were on a par with Krause when I left. I once shocked Dan McKee when he asked about Vassar sweater cards at a show and I showed him the checklists and fairly accurate pricing. He asked me, how do you know about these -- um Dan, remember that was my job -- LOL

Rich

[ALR-bishop]

Darn Rich, sorry for not making the connection. I actually got hooked on SCD through associations on another board and have had a lot of fun trading information with Bob Lemke over the years about variations. Sorry for not making the connection but very glad to have access to another great hobby resource

[toppcat]

Standard Catlaog always had a few things the Big Beckett did not and vice versa in my experience. I still use a combination of both for research but pricing I get via eBay or VCP these days (way of the world I guess).

[goheels]

Five pictures illustrating my earlier cut line/border discussion:

1. Topps 1970 #347 Snyder. The cut line was a guide at the bottom of the half sheet.

2. Topps 1970 #112 Fryman (regular card). On the closeup you can see the cut line. You can make out specks of the "burlap" coming through the cut line and there is further card below the cut line.

3. Topps MB #165 Oliva with a medium border.

4. Topps MB #165 Oliva with a larger border. This card is slightly more off-centered than the above. Compared to the off white cut line in pic #2 this is whiter, looks more solid. This border is the top of the MB Hot Rod card L'il Beauty. All the HR cards were horizontal, so it would be the right edge of the L'il Beauty card.

5. Bottom of a Kocourek 67 Football MB card on close up. Went straight from a game I opened up over about 15 years ago into this holder. (Only touched twice--by me and the Milton Bradley worker who put it into the tray. I took it out of deep storage for the picture.) On magnification this mesh lower border matches exactly the top mesh border of the Dodgers MB 168 card top border. Each of the MB cards has a unique match to a card above or below it on the sheet. However, you have to have at several cards with borders on each side of the match to achieve this, as well as a magnifying loupe.

[4reals]

The cut lines on the standard topps set appear to be about 1/32 of an inch so it would be safe to assume a card showing a white strip edge greater than that is a MB card as long as it was located on the inner rows of the sheet, correct? However, if a standard Topps card was located on one of the outside rows of a sheet and was miscut it is still possible for it to possess a greater strip of white. After looking at some of my '68's it also appears the cut lines weren't always as white as the one shown in the pic you provided...if I'm seeing it correctly it appears some were brown and others were a very faint white, are others finding this?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 4reals

The cut lines on the standard topps set appear to be about 1/32 of an inch so it would be safe to assume a card showing a white strip edge greater than that is a MB card as long as it was located on the inner rows of the sheet, correct? However, if a standard Topps card was located on one of the outside rows of a sheet and was miscut it is still possible for it to possess a greater strip of white. After looking at some of my '68's it also appears the cut lines weren't always as white as the one shown in the pic you provided...if I'm seeing it correctly it appears some were brown and others were a very faint white, are others finding this?

Yes, the cards I have with cut lines have lines that vary in size and color. Plus I finally went through and removed my 4 MB cards from the main set.

I never knew the cut lines were only at the half sheet. That's good to know. I've been collecting cards with the cut line for a while now. Mostly 1970s, but others too.

Steve B