Derek Jeter Forgery Baseball Unbelievable!!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

Sorry guys, but I had to vent on this one. This is the ugliest Derek Jeter forgery I have ever seen on Ebay. Does the seller (twentyfourstore) really believe that this is authentic or are they just hoping that some sucker buys this garbage!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150704523018

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[GrayGhost]

WORST EVER. pathetic to try and pass that off, and anyone who bids on that, is a moron

[bigtrain]

The listing has been removed. Big surprise.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is another horrible Jeter forgery from the same seller:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...m=150704519622

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[GrayGhost]

that will go soon

[Gary Dunaier]

Fake Derek Jeter autograph fail!

[Leon]

Thanks again to all who point out these poor fakes. Ya'll keep a lot of folks from getting burned.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks again to all who point out these poor fakes. Ya'll keep a lot of folks from getting burned.

Thank you, Leon, for this wonderful place of knowledgeable collectors that allows us to expose the garbage that is out there.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Speaking of garbage, check out this Derek Jeter forgery and the fact that the Ebay seller ("thegoodz15") is selling it as a "Steiner Sports" item.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...item1e68dc6661

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[GrayGhost]

Can't Steiner themselves stop that? That isn't even CLOSE. Horrible, Putrid crap.

I second Chris' thoughts too. I LOVE this site, for all the knowledge, sales, and everything it offers.

[thetruthisoutthere]

And this GAI certed garbage that is all over the place.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Classic...item3f1086f607

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[GrayGhost]

I know thats awful Chris, but I want to ask you a legit, serious ?. How much variation was there in Derek's "early " autographs, vs the Current day? You may have covered it in a video, but I don't recall. thanks.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

I know thats awful Chris, but I want to ask you a legit, serious ?. How much variation was there in Derek's "early " autographs, vs the Current day? You may have covered it in a video, but I don't recall. thanks.

Scott, Derek's signature changed a lot during his early years. My favorite are his 1992 and 1993 signatures (both different). Then it changed again in 1994 (twice). His last 1994 signature evolved into 1995 signature. Then his 1996 signature was a slight change from his 1995 signature. My favorite Derek sigs, like I wrote previously, are his 1992 and 1993 sigs, but I like all of his 1992-1996 sigs.

[yanks12025]

Have you contacted the ebayer thegoodz, because I know he's a big collector.

[sports-rings]

I know Scott, "Thegoodz". Scott has always been a great guy and a true gentleman. I will send him this link and ask him to respond.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Scott, Derek's signature changed a lot during his early years. My favorite are his 1992 and 1993 signatures (both different). Then it changed again in 1994 (twice). His last 1994 signature evolved into 1995 signature. Then his 1996 signature was a slight change from his 1995 signature. My favorite Derek sigs, like I wrote previously, are his 1992 and 1993 sigs, but I like all of his 1992-1996 sigs.

Why don't you put together some photos, Chris, so we can all see the evolution?

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Why don't you put together some photos, Chris, so we can all see the evolution?

I concur with David. That's what I was looking for in the Mays Wife signed thread from last week. Speaking for myself, I'm interested in learning how to tell the difference regardless if it's Mays, Mantle, Ruth, Gehrig or Jeter. And for a novice like me, it's much easier to have the signatures side by side.

My expertize lies in Baseball Photography, and although it can be very difficult for many to determine what TYPE classifications a particular image is, I've become quite adapt at it. It helps tremendously that some of the most knowledgeable photo experts in the hobby schooled me for several years, as well as my desire to continue to learn as much as possible to the point of obsessive compulsive.

I often wonder how this board's top auto members learned so much. Other than Jamie & Richard who are professionals, how do the rest of you guys garner such knowledge? David has been at it much, much longer than most of us, and he has scores and scores of signed items from the last 50-90 years in his collection. It's also quite clear to me that David, much like myself, isn't satisfied until he gets results from endless research. I would imagine that many of us who are serious about what we collect also have a support network in place, be it fellow knowledgeable collectors, dealers, professionals, as well as net54 and other like websites.

But the way I see it, there is just no substitute for hands-on learning and I mean that literally. I was fortunate enough to go through a huge legitimate photo archive. I flew thousands of miles and drove over a hundred miles of back roads just to get there. But that was the best decision I've made in regards to the hobby, as I spent 12-15 hours a day for several days, and the knowledge and experience I gained took me to a much higher level of expertise and understanding.

So this brings me to how in the heck do you guys learn so much without studying real exemplars? Are scans good enough? Do scans suffice if you already have a ton of hands-on experience? In most cases I wouldn't think so. I'm sure that that's the reason a PSA Quick Opinion never gives a definitive answer without the item in hand. I don't get it. Not to mention all the nuances and irregularities due to a plethora of reasons that signatures from the same person might not match up from time to time. Hell, how many of you guys got an autograph in person, only to be shot down once you sent it in to get authenticated?

Granted that Jeter signatures, good or bad can be seen in person at card shows across the country, as well as Mantles (excluding 1951-1965 because 99.5% of Mantle autos you see at shows are from the last few decades) and the same with Williams, Mays, Aaron, Etc. Plenty of hands-on opportunities to be had there of newer signatures.

But, how does a collector that is a non-professional gain enough knowledge and experience to decisively answer Yes, No, No Way, Not a Chance, and so on, when presented with autographs of players from 1910-1960?

Am I missing something? Are there advanced books or DVD's that go into great detail about how to spot fake autos? Are there seminars were you can actually learn from an expert in a hands-on atmosphere?

I'm just curious as hell how so many know so much with out said training/hands-on experience.

Now I'm not asking to cause any trouble, and I know that there are guys like Rhys here that have paid their dues and really know their fields, but it seems that the several collectors like Rhys and David are few and far between.

What I would love to see on these autograph threads are more of what David suggest. More examples laid side by side and some of the details explained at least to some extant. Those of us that have asked for reasons have been flicked aside a few times, and I now feel that it makes it harder for us to ask again.

Now, regarding the Mays thread from last week. I put the two signatures side by side as was suggested and studied them on several occasions, but I must say that all of that effort I put into it only made me feel that my original though was correct in that these two signatures were both not signed by Mrs Mays. However, if the reasons why were pointed out in some reasonable detail and explanation, then I would have been thrilled to learn something new and would have never felt the need to write this novella.

[travrosty]

takes looking at them a long time, repetition.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Great analogies, Travis.

I've always written and stated on video that my only reason that I write for blogs and do videos is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That's what I do. Period.

If other knowledgeable autograph collectors want to explain why a particular autograph is a forgery or a secretarial that's great, but it's not what I do.

[David Atkatz]

All hat, no cattle.

[travrosty]

Everyone should do it in their own way, in the way they want to. not personal. just take his opinion and get others from other people and there you go.

[perezfan]

I don't really collect modern autographs, but would also be very interested to see the Derek Jeter "style evolution" through the years. The fakes above are no-brainers, but I would be eager to see his earlier styles.

If anyone else would take the time to post the earlier variations, it would be much appreciated

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All hat, no cattle.

And the barn door was just opened again

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All hat, no cattle.

This is an open post to Leon and the other Net54 members. This thread was started by me to expose a horrific Jeter forgery and once again David Atkatz has interrupted an autograph thread with the above personal attack.

David, what motivation do you have for personal attacks? This is not the first time for you to launch personal attacks. I've done over 190 YouTube videos exposing forgeries and I expected personal attacks from the bad guys watching my YouTube videos, but I don't understand David's personal attack here. I won't launch any personal attack against David as I feel his sad actions speak for themselves. I just wanted to alert the members here that David Atkatz has started his "thing" once again.

[Mr. Zipper]

In my view, it takes a proactive effort. You can't become really good by passively looking at an autograph on occasion. You need to look and study a lot of autographs over time.

* Set up daily ebay searches and review the auctions. Eventually you will begin to see the differences and patterns in autographs between legit sellers and suspect items. When you see a certain signature and know what seller it came from, you know it is starting to click.

* Ask questions of experienced collectors. I've learned a lot here by simply reading the threads and asking questions via private message.

* Don't just focus on the "shape" of the autograph. That is only one part of the equation.

I have been collecting and studying space autographs for many years and have written and contributed to a number of studies. It took years of active studying and looking at thousands of exemplars. Now, I can look at certain autographs and know within a year or two when it was signed.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mschwade

And the barn door was just opened again

+1
This will be the only comment from me on this thread unless the thread reverts back to what it should be.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I won't launch any personal attack against David as I feel his sad actions speak for themselves. I just wanted to alert the members here that David Atkatz has started his "thing" once again.

My thing?

At least three times on this forum you were asked to provide "educational" help. You either ignored the requests, or outright refused.

I've watched your videos. I've watched you consistently attack the ignorant buyers. "Morons and idiots," you call them.

Instead of name-calling, why won't you help us to learn?

[thetruthisoutthere]

For that one person who is unable to understand English, I will repeat a previous post of mine below.

I've always written and stated on video that my only reason that I write for blogs and do videos is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That's what I do. Period.

If other knowledgeable autograph collectors want to explain why a particular autograph is a forgery or a secretarial that's great, but it's not what I do.

[David Atkatz]

We understand, Chris. Believe me, we do.

Sure would have been nice, though, to see the evolution of Jete's signature, presented by one who really knows.

Oh, well. Our loss.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

We understand, Chris. Believe me, we do.

Sure would have been nice, though, to see the evolution of Jete's signature, presented by one who really knows.

Oh, well. Our loss.

In all fairness I don't think it's Chris's responsibility or duty to educate us. He is nice enough to give his valued opinion on many items. It's up to each of us to educate ourselves. I think the "all hat no cattle" comment was uncalled for but I have seen worse on the board. David, may I suggest that if you are so interested in educating the board then please be my guest. Just my half cent.

[David Atkatz]

Educate ourselves? Excuse me if I misunderstood, but I thought one of the purposes of this board was to learn from one another.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Leon

David, may I suggest that if you are so interested in educating the board then please be my guest.

I have, Leon. On many occasions.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Educate ourselves? Excuse me if I misunderstood, but I thought one of the purposes of this board was to learn from one another.

There are many things that add to learning experiences, whatever the subject might be. In "learning" about sports cards, autographs etc....one of the ways is to read this board. There is no doubt about that. Another way is to handle as many items as possible. I do both of those (on the card side of course). I also talk to other hobbyists, chat on another board or two, read, listen etc.....I don't think any one way is going to take care of all of your learning needs. I consider this board one slice of the "learning pie". Whatever Chris says on the board, and others read, is another way to learn. He already stated what his position is pertaining to going step by step, it's not his gig....Why badger him about it?

[David Atkatz]

When a fellow collector asks me specifically to show him something--what Kid Elberfeld's signature looks like, for example, I consider myself obligated to do so. I consider it the "price" we pay for participating here. (Although "price" is a bit of a misnomer--I really am happy to help. Sort of "paying it forward," for all those who helped me.)

Chris was asked by two people to show Jeter's signature evolution. He refused.

He was asked by a prominent (and deservedly beloved) collector on this board to help in understanding Mantle's signature. Chris told him to figure it out himself.

We all have our buttons, Leon. One of mine happens to be the "I want you to know that I know--but don't ask me to tell you how I know, 'cause I won't tell" statement

I should have kept quiet, but I just hate to see that sort of thing.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

When a fellow collector asks me specifically to show him something--what Kid Elberfeld's signature looks like, for example, I consider myself obligated to do so. I consider it the "price" we pay for participating here. (Although "price" is a bit of a misnomer--I really am happy to help. Sort of "paying it forward," for all those who helped me.)

Chris was asked by two people to show Jeter's signature evolution. He refused.

He was asked by a prominent (and deservedly beloved) collector on this board to help in understanding Mantle's signature. Chris told him to figure it out himself.

I should have kept quiet, but I just hate to see that sort of thing.

And I try my best to pay it forward as much as anyone but I do have my limits. Chris has stated his. I thank him for all he does. No one has any obligation to pay it forward anymore than they do. Also, one thing I won't do, is say publicly what some of my key knowledge is. The reason is that I am 100% sure scammers read this board. When we went through the whole E94 overprint debacle, with SGC slabbing a fake one and me catching it, I wouldn't then, nor now, state exactly how I knew. I did tell the graders at SGC though. I don't want fraudulent type people learning too much from me (or at least I don't want to help them and make their job easier) Once again, I don't think anyone has any obligation to help anyone else. Whoever helps, and what they help with, is appreciated. Badgering individuals who do help is frowned upon and won't be tolerated too much. I respect your knowledge David, and your participation on the board. Please be nice . Nuff said.....best regards

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

When a fellow collector asks me specifically to show him something--what Kid Elberfeld's signature looks like, for example, I consider myself obligated to do so. I consider it the "price" we pay for participating here. (Although "price" is a bit of a misnomer--I really am happy to help. Sort of "paying it forward," for all those who helped me.)

Chris was asked by two people to show Jeter's signature evolution. He refused.

He was asked by a prominent (and deservedly beloved) collector on this board to help in understanding Mantle's signature. Chris told him to figure it out himself.

I should have kept quiet, but I just hate to see that sort of thing.

That's great, David, that you consider "your obligation" to go into detail about a particular signature, but I'm not you, and I don't have any "obligation" here. Your "obligation" is your personal choice and that's great.

I don't know about you, David, but I never signed a contract here on Net54 that "obligates" me to do anything. My "personal obligation" to the hobby is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That is my choice. It is my "personal obligation" to produce videos and hammer Coach's Corner Auctions for the garbage they sell. That's what I do; that's my part in trying to clean up the autograph section of the hobby. I did not bow down to those who threatened me and personally attacked me for the videos I made; instead, I produced even more videos in response.

I didn't whimper at "their" feeble attempts to intimidate me; I simply made more videos. That's me doing my part to help the hobby.

[David Atkatz]

No problem, Chris. Keep up the good work.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Speaking of garbage, check out this Derek Jeter forgery and the fact that the Ebay seller ("thegoodz15") is selling it as a "Steiner Sports" item.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...item1e68dc6661

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Looks like this piece of crap was removed.