1952 Topps Collectors - new Duke Snider variation?

[skelly423]

I spent nearly a year hunting for a Duke Snider for my collection, and in that time I noticed an interesting variation that kept turning up. I haven't found any mention of it in this forum, or anywhere else online, so I'm not sure it's been documented before. I'm not trying to pump and dump a card I'm hoarding, nor am I trying to make it into the next Campos or yellow tiger House, but I do think it's a legitimate variation that's worth discussing.

If you look at the bottom border there's a small white gap in the border. It's somewhat similar to the partial border Campos, albeit over a smaller space.
In my very unscientific observation of the card, it seems to appear approximately 1 in 10 cards, and I've only seen it on red back copies. Has anyone else noticed this before? Has anyone seen it on a black back version?

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by skelly423

I spent nearly a year hunting for a Duke Snider for my collection, and in that time I noticed an interesting variation that kept turning up. I haven't found any mention of it in this forum, or anywhere else online, so I'm not sure it's been documented before. I'm not trying to pump and dump a card I'm hoarding, nor am I trying to make it into the next Campos or yellow tiger House, but I do think it's a legitimate variation that's worth discussing.

If you look at the bottom border there's a small white gap in the border. It's somewhat similar to the partial border Campos, albeit over a smaller space.
In my very unscientific observation of the card, it seems to appear approximately 1 in 10 cards, and I've only seen it on red back copies. Has anyone else noticed this before? Has anyone seen it on a black back version?

No but I'll check the COMC data base tomorrow and see how they look on scans

[G1911]

This one has been known for awhile. Only occurs on the red back, as far as I am aware.

[Zach Wheat]

It occurs only in the red backs. I believe we listed it in the 1952 variations thread.

[G1911]

There’s other similar border variants in the set for those that like the Snider. Scheib, Woodling, Coogan, Wilson, Holmes, Dorish, etc.

[skelly423]

I obviously missed that in my searching. Thanks for tipping me off about the other examples. Does anyone know why/how the partial border Campos became a desired error, and the Snider/Scheib/Woodling/whoever is looked at as more or less an oddity?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by skelly423

I obviously missed that in my searching. Thanks for tipping me off about the other examples. Does anyone know why/how the partial border Campos became a desired error, and the Snider/Scheib/Woodling/whoever is looked at as more or less an oddity?

Personal opinion - because the Campos also has a popular rare variant with the star on back. When something crops up on a card already hobby known for a variation, it gets more traction then when it's on a 'normal' card. The Campos is also more pronounced; it's missing the black in a larger area then the small indents in frames on other cards in the set.

[irv]

Originally Posted by skelly423

I spent nearly a year hunting for a Duke Snider for my collection, and in that time I noticed an interesting variation that kept turning up. I haven't found any mention of it in this forum, or anywhere else online, so I'm not sure it's been documented before. I'm not trying to pump and dump a card I'm hoarding, nor am I trying to make it into the next Campos or yellow tiger House, but I do think it's a legitimate variation that's worth discussing.

If you look at the bottom border there's a small white gap in the border. It's somewhat similar to the partial border Campos, albeit over a smaller space.
In my very unscientific observation of the card, it seems to appear approximately 1 in 10 cards, and I've only seen it on red back copies. Has anyone else noticed this before? Has anyone seen it on a black back version?

Great looking Duke, Sean.

[skelly423]

Thank you! I'm really happy with it.

Originally Posted by irv

Great looking Duke, Sean.

[Zach Wheat]

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

[Rich Klein]

A day later than I planned but I started looking at the 52 Topps Sniders with the COMC images.

As we keep learning things (or getting them brought to our attention) or seeing things, this is in line with some of the 1973 Topps printing issues we do list with gaps in the borders.

So I'll find what we have and create the new listings

A significant percent of all the cards we've received have that gap in the border. I don't think it's that rare but it's certainly just another challenge to the master set.

Rich

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

Way back in the day PSA would ask us at Beckett about some variations and would only use the determination if we called it a variation. Today what would quialify as 2 articles. We have things such if it reappeared as the Dingman E&V clist and your current project. To me that would qualify as 2 sources which might be a better way for PSA to add a new listing

Remember in their earlier years they just used T206 but especially after this board started saying, hey do something about the backs, they want to adding the back information to the T206 nomenclature

[Rich Klein]

And I'm probably setting a record for consecutive posts in any thread but if anyone wants to guide me as to whom in 52s to separate with those Gaps, I'll break them all out for COMC

Rich

[irv]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

PSA had told me that to grade a 'variation' there had to be 2 articles published about a card and they did not consider variations that were not intended (my interpretation). Not sure what that means as they now grade the Yellow House variation, do not grade the Campos Top Border variation and will grade the red star black star variation.

The skeptics would say it is so they can make money at a later date when they start to accept the major variations, so they can get additional grading fees.

That surprises me considering what a premium that card commands and the fact the black star, on the back no less, does.

[Zach Wheat]

Yes, kind of surprising since it screws up the price tracking sites if you can't distinguish between the 2 cards. However, I guess..as Al-R has said numerous times, is how do we define a variation?

Even the Huggins & Scott auction listing the 579 card "Master Set" most would say was not complete. The old timers included 700 cards in their master set.

The Campos partial top border variation is probably the variation with the largest price difference between the 2 versions in the 1952 Topps set and at some point you have to wonder when PSA will start tracking it. The standards for classifying variations don't make a lot of sense to me.