NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-11-2021, 09:19 PM
dstudeba's Avatar
dstudeba dstudeba is offline
Dan Studebaker
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 620
Default

Great Cards Val!

Also nice to see so many Monos in this thread.

Patrick - Love the Old Mill cabinet!


Last edited by dstudeba; 05-11-2021 at 09:20 PM. Reason: added pic
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-11-2021, 10:07 PM
ValKehl's Avatar
ValKehl ValKehl is offline
Val Kehl
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Manassas, VA (DC suburb)
Posts: 2,662
Default

Phil & Dan, thanks for the kind words.
__________________
Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210-2, W504, & Queen City Cigar. Also T216 Kotton "NGO" card of Hugh Jennings. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery of WaJo.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-11-2021, 11:43 PM
Aaron Seefeldt's Avatar
Aaron Seefeldt Aaron Seefeldt is offline
Aaron Seefeldt
member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Suburb of Chicago
Posts: 140
Default A couple of Cobb Piedmont 42s

The red portrait Piedmont 42 is my wife’s. She bought it a few years ago. I just acquired the Bat Off Piedmont 42 recently and now the red portrait has a pal to hang out with in our bank box
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-12-2021, 07:20 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

In his book titled "Inside T206", Scot Reader identifies the 6 guys displayed here as the " SUPER-PRINTS "
Scot Reader's excellent research revealed that these six subjects were printed in greater quantities (and with more Tobacco brands) than any other
T206 subjects in the set.
These 6 subjects fascinate me, simply because American Lithographic (ALC) introduced a new Series in the T206 print runs....the 350/460 Series.
ALC selected from the 350-only Series these six subjects, which they printed with SOVEREIGN 460 backs during the printing phase of the 460-only
Series cards.
Please note that the SOVEREIGN 460 versions of these 6 subjects are very tough to find relative to the regular subjects in the 460-only Series.

Shown here are the Six Super-Prints with their SOVEREIGN 350 backs and their SOVEREIGN 460 backs......

The Red Cobb with the SOVEREIGN 460 back is very, very tough to find.

.


-------


............





TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-13-2021, 05:28 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,717
Default

Here are a couple of group shots, first some portrait T206 cards with red and orange backgrounds, and then some portraits in the 1910/11 Obak sets. The players don't have to be superstars...great looking tobacco cards of non-HOF players are pretty special too.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t206redorange088 (800x718).jpg (72.3 KB, 257 views)
File Type: jpg 001.jpg (77.4 KB, 274 views)
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-14-2021, 07:45 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default My Fave is the Coupon Type 1 T213’s...

My favorite to collect over the years has been the exceptionally rare and paper thin T206, ur, I mean T213-1 Coupon’s. Especially the Southern Leaguers!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EC5241AA-C396-4E57-A5D4-8A3EE3A19F04.jpg (11.2 KB, 231 views)
File Type: jpg 1C57AEAE-B567-4899-9EF8-B477695CE0D8.jpg (11.5 KB, 229 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-14-2021, 02:45 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Hey Jeremy......you got to love those 1910 COUPON cards. I have 25% of the set; however, there is no way that I will ever complete this set.
But, it's the thrill of the hunt that really fascinates me about these seldom seen mysterious tobacco cards.


Here are the six T206 Super Prints with the 1910 COUPON advertisement.




I recently sold my Chance to a good buddy on Net54 who is working on the ultimate Chance run.













TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-16-2021, 08:23 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Coupons

Thanks Ted! I love those Coupon Type 1's as well! Coincidentally, 80% of the Southern League Type 1 Coupons are For Sale in current REA Auction. (16 of 20). That would be a Big step toward your completion of the Coupon Type 1's! Some of the Highest Graded examples known as well!!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg item_83071_1_190412.jpg (75.9 KB, 228 views)
File Type: jpg item_83073_1_190408.jpg (75.5 KB, 233 views)
File Type: jpg item_83077_1_190404.jpg (75.3 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg item_83080_2_190427.jpg (76.8 KB, 229 views)
File Type: jpg item_83083_1_190402.jpg (75.8 KB, 226 views)
File Type: jpg item_83084_1_190418.jpg (76.2 KB, 232 views)
File Type: jpg item_83086_1_190428.jpg (76.2 KB, 229 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-16-2021, 12:00 PM
Touch'EmAll Touch'EmAll is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 806
Default

A cornerstone of the collection - purchased years ago right here on Net54.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CobbGreen.jpg (50.6 KB, 215 views)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-16-2021, 12:20 PM
qed2190 qed2190 is offline
Larry Moe
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 500
Default

This is my only Coupon. The McGraw in the middle
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mcgraw.jpg (63.8 KB, 210 views)
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 05-18-2021, 07:04 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default More of my Favorites... Type 1 T213 Coupon's

More of my Favorites... Type 1 T213 Coupon Tobacco cards. Extremely rare and paper thin. (Hold a raw one in your hand and it's a wonder they survived) Perhaps, one day they will be recognized as a part of T206 catalog brand of tobacco brands....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg item_83072_1_190410.jpg (74.4 KB, 204 views)
File Type: jpg item_83074_1_190414.jpg (76.4 KB, 204 views)
File Type: jpg item_83075_1_190400.jpg (77.0 KB, 212 views)
File Type: jpg item_83076_1_190420.jpg (75.3 KB, 213 views)
File Type: jpg item_83078_1_190430.jpg (75.0 KB, 204 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-18-2021, 01:19 PM
t206kid t206kid is offline
Jay
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 849
Default

Fun thread! Here is a colorful type 2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Red Cross Cobb.jpg (68.6 KB, 188 views)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-18-2021, 01:58 PM
t213 t213 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 736
Default

I love seeing all the T213-1s! Here are more Monos.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t217couchman.jpg (81.4 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg t217smithbat.jpg (38.2 KB, 178 views)
File Type: jpg t217bernard10.jpg (78.4 KB, 203 views)
File Type: jpg t217mitze1mk.jpg (80.4 KB, 201 views)
File Type: jpg t217criger.jpg (44.6 KB, 185 views)
File Type: jpg t217burrell.jpg (24.3 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg t217chadbourne.jpg (27.2 KB, 174 views)
__________________
Seeking T217 Delhi(glove chest), Vitt, Wheeler; and T214s in any condition!
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:18 PM
t206blogcom t206blogcom is offline
Jason Stricker
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,227
Default

__________________
T206 518/518
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-18-2021, 03:24 PM
BabyRuth's Avatar
BabyRuth BabyRuth is offline
Jim
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: MA
Posts: 464
Default

Tobacco is great in a corn Cobb pipe!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1912_T227_Cobb.jpg (78.1 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg 1911_T3_Cobb_9.jpg (76.6 KB, 190 views)
File Type: jpg 1914_T213_Cobb.JPG (59.9 KB, 184 views)
File Type: jpg T206_BatOff_Cobb.jpg (25.9 KB, 176 views)
File Type: jpg T206_BatOn_Cobb.jpg (75.3 KB, 186 views)
File Type: jpg T206_Green_Cobb1.jpg (77.9 KB, 194 views)
File Type: jpg T206_Red_Cobb.jpg (76.6 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg Cobb.jpg (75.0 KB, 186 views)
File Type: jpg 129TyCobb.jpg (77.2 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg 130TyCobb.jpg (74.8 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg 3ADesperateSlide.jpg (74.9 KB, 185 views)
File Type: jpg 65Fast.jpg (76.0 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg 68GoodPlay.jpg (75.3 KB, 184 views)
__________________
Always buying Babe Ruth Cards!!!

Last edited by BabyRuth; 05-18-2021 at 03:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-18-2021, 06:58 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

The red HINDU backs are my 3rd favorite T206 brands. American Lithographic printed red HINDU backs on 47 subjects in the T206 set.
The 35 subjects in the 350/460 Series with HINDU are quite scarce. However, the 12 subjects in the 460-only Series are relatively easy
to find. I proved this, by concentrating on a run of of these 12. In less than 2 months, I acquired 11 of the 12. The Sheckard card, though
took almost a year to acquire.


Here are the Exclusive 12 in the 460-only Series............



.




.




. . . . . .





.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-18-2021, 08:37 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
The red HINDU backs are my 3rd favorite T206 brands. American Lithographic printed red HINDU backs on 47 subjects in the T206 set.

TED Z

T206 Reference
.
To my knowledge there are only 44 confirmed Red Hindu's.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-19-2021, 06:00 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Hey guys,

American Lithographic printed 35 subjects in the 350/460 Series simultaneously with the red HINDU
and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.

On a separate sheet American Litho printed 12 subjects from the 460-only Series with the red HINDU
and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.





350/460 Series Checklist.…...35 subjects

Ames (hands over head) ..……………..*
Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (portrait-yellow}
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (portrait-red)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)

Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap) ....……………….*
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Murphy (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Reulbach (no glove) ......………………..*
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (fielding)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)

Note..... * These subjects have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back.

In recent years, Dougherty, Joss, and Murphy have been discovered with Red HINDU backs; therefore,
I fully expect Ames, Matty, and Reulbach will eventually be confirmed.

If anyone on this forum is willing to make a bet on this ? I will give them 2 to 1 odds that these 3 guys
will be discovered.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-19-2021, 01:27 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

What kind of bet is that it's a no win for anyone taking it. You can't prove that they weren't printed it could be ten years later with none of them
discovered and you could just say they were printed but none have showed up yet. There hasn't been a new Red Hindu confirmation in 7 years.

I could say Honus Wagner was printed with a Sovereign 150 back but it's so rare one hasn't showed up yet.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-19-2021, 07:19 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Hey Guys,

Circa 2010 on Net54, I presented my theory regarding the "split-personality" of the T206 350/460 Series cards in their latter print runs (Winter 1910 to
Spring 1911). Group A comprising of 35 subjects. Group B comprising of 28 subjects. And, this theory has withstood the test of time.

In 2010......Ames, Dougherty, Mathewson, Murphy and Reulbach had NOT yet been confirmed with the red HINDU back. Back then, I predicted that these
5 guys would eventually be discovered with red HINDU backs. Subsequently, Dougherty and Murphy were discovered. The other 3 remain to be seen.

Here is a record of one of my predictions....that of Danny Murphy (batting) will be discovered with a red HINDU back......

Dated 4-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by wonkaticket View Post
Thanks Ted, my one and only...but as Leon often says if you're only going to have one why not this one.

But what I really want is a Cobb Red Port with Red Hindu back..

All joking aside love to find out if a Danny Murphy batting is out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
JOHN

I guarantee that eventually this card will be found. It is currently lying low due to the capricious whims
of the The Monster

TED Z

Look guys.....I try to inform, educate, or simply encourage thought regarding the complexities of the T206 set. I really appreciate all your
positive responses, phone calls, emails, etc. since 2005. But, there are one (or 2) on this forum that get their kicks playing the "negative"
game. And, I have tried (more or less) to play the tolerance game in dealing with their comments.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2021 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-19-2021, 08:16 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey guys,

American Lithographic printed 35 subjects in the 350/460 Series simultaneously with the red HINDU
and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.

On a separate sheet American Litho printed 12 subjects from the 460-only Series with the red HINDU
and SWEET CAPORAL 350-460 Factory #42 backs.






350/460 Series Checklist.…...35 subjects

Ames (hands over head) ..……………..*
Baker
Bender (no trees)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Chance (portrait-yellow}
Chase (portrait-blue)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (portrait-red)
Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Johnson (pitching)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)

Konetchy (glove low)
Magee (bat)
Mathewson (dark cap) ....……………….*
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
Murphy (batting)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Reulbach (no glove) ......………………..*
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Street (fielding)
Sweeney (fielding)
Willis (throwing)
CYoung (glove)

Note..... * These subjects have yet to be confirmed with the red HINDU back.

In recent years, Dougherty, Joss, and Murphy have been discovered with Red HINDU backs; therefore,
I fully expect Ames, Matty, and Reulbach will eventually be confirmed.

If anyone on this forum is willing to make a bet on this ? I will give them 2 to 1 odds that these 3 guys
will be discovered.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey Guys,

Circa 2010 on Net54, I presented my theory regarding the "split-personality" of the T206 350/460 Series cards in their latter print runs (Winter 1910 to
Spring 1911). Group A comprising of 35 subjects. Group B comprising of 28 subjects. And, this theory has withstood the test of time.

In 2010......Ames, Dougherty, Mathewson, Murphy and Reulbach had NOT yet been confirmed with the red HINDU back. Back then, I predicted that these
5 guys would eventually be discovered with red HINDU backs. Subsequently, Dougherty and Murphy were discovered. The other 3 remain to be seen.

Here is a record of one of my predictions....that of Danny Murphy (batting) will be discovered with a red HINDU back......

Dated 4-19-2020






Look guys.....I try to inform, educate, or simply encourage thought regarding the complexities of the T206 set. I really appreciate all your
positive responses, phone calls, emails, etc. since 2005. But, there are one (or 2) on this forum that get their kicks playing the "negative"
game. And, I have tried (more or less) to play the tolerance game in dealing with their comments.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
It's funny how many times you use the negative game comment Ted. It's not a negative game I just find it a little offensive when you state your opinion
as fact. I'm not saying the three subjects you pointed out weren't printed with a Red Hindu but anyone who follows the t206 set closely knows there
are many inconsistences in the set and you can't assume anything.

Your Murphy prediction date should be 4-19-2010.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-20-2021, 02:22 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
It's funny how many times you use the negative game comment Ted. It's not a negative game I just find it a little offensive when you state your opinion
as fact. I'm not saying the three subjects you pointed out weren't printed with a Red Hindu but anyone who follows the t206 set closely knows there
are many inconsistences in the set and you can't assume anything.

Your Murphy prediction date should be 4-19-2010.

Pat

My research indicates that the printing of the various T206 series from the Summer of 1910 to the Spring of 1911 have very few "inconsistences".
In fact, there are definite logical patterns in the printing process during that period. These patterns are addressed in.... T206 Reference

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, that I typed the date "2020", instead of "2010" in my prior post. It has been corrected.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-20-2021, 07:24 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat

My research indicates that the printing of the various T206 series from the Summer of 1910 to the Spring of 1911 have very few "inconsistences".
In fact, there are definite logical patterns in the printing process during that period. These patterns are addressed in.... T206 Reference

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, that I typed the date "2020", instead of "2010" in my prior post. It has been corrected.

TED Z
.
I agree there are patterns in the printing during that time period just as there are patterns through out the set but there are still some inconsistences.
There may be fewer in the 350/460 and 460 only printings but one factor is that those two series only account for 1/5 of the set.



In the same thread you predicted the Murphy Red Hindu you also posted this

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hey Jeff L......et al

By my count, the blue Chase even beats out the Red Cobb with respect to the number of different backs.
The blue Chase has been confirmed with 22 different T206 backs.....it includes BROAD LEAF 350, LENOX,
and Red HINDU.
I expect that it will be found with a BROAD LEAF 460 back and a DRUM back.

Chase was NOT printed with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, nor UZIT.


The Red Cobb has been confirmed with 22 different T206 backs......it includes BROAD LEAF 460, DRUM,
and LENOX.
I do not expect it to be found with anymore T206 backs.

Cobb was NOT printed with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, nor Red HINDU, nor UZIT.


TED Z
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-20-2021, 08:06 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Speaking of T206 Inconsistences from 1909-11....

Speaking of T206 inconsistencies from 1909-11, there are many folks out there that believe the T213-1 Coupon's should be part of the T206 collection of various Tobacco backs. 1910, Tobacco back, exact same design as the rest of the T206 tobacco backs, with only 1 slight variation (sorta like an American Beauty which is cut narrower in width, only the Coupon is cut narrower in depth) Cough, cough.... I digress - Love these Uber rare rascals!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg item_83079_1_190424.jpg (75.8 KB, 135 views)
File Type: jpg item_83080_1_190426.jpg (76.3 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg item_83081_1_190406.jpg (74.9 KB, 133 views)
File Type: jpg item_83082_1_190416.jpg (75.3 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg item_83085_1_190422.jpg (75.5 KB, 135 views)
File Type: jpg item_83080_2_190427.jpg (76.8 KB, 131 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-20-2021, 10:06 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Speaking of T206 inconsistencies from 1909-11, there are many folks out there that believe the T213-1 Coupon's should be part of the T206 collection of various Tobacco backs. 1910, Tobacco back, exact same design as the rest of the T206 tobacco backs, with only 1 slight variation (sorta like an American Beauty which is cut narrower in width, only the Coupon is cut narrower in depth) Cough, cough.... I digress - Love these Uber rare rascals!
Hi Jeremy

You and I (and some T206 collectors on this forum) agree that the 1910 COUPON cards should be included in the family of the T206 tobacco brands.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).]

.



Further proof of this is evident on my Doolan card which has cardboard residue on it from being pasted on a cigarette carton.

.




Whatever, here is my nicest 1910 COUPON card. If I am lucky, the stupid TPG's will probably grade it only a "2" (or perhaps a "1.5").

.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 05-20-2021, 10:55 AM
DeanH3's Avatar
DeanH3 DeanH3 is offline
D/e/@/n H/@/c/k/e/t/t
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,510
Default

Wouldn't mind adding a T205 WaJo and Matty in the future.



T206's are just too addictive. lol!





Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-20-2021, 02:25 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Speaking of T206 inconsistencies from 1909-11, there are many folks out there that believe the T213-1 Coupon's should be part of the T206 collection of various Tobacco backs. 1910, Tobacco back, exact same design as the rest of the T206 tobacco backs, with only 1 slight variation (sorta like an American Beauty which is cut narrower in width, only the Coupon is cut narrower in depth) Cough, cough.... I digress - Love these Uber rare rascals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Jeremy

You and I (and some T206 collectors on this forum) agree that the 1910 COUPON cards should be included in the family of the T206 tobacco brands.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).]

.



Further proof of this is evident on my Doolan card which has cardboard residue on it from being pasted on a cigarette carton.

.




Whatever, here is my nicest 1910 COUPON card. If I am lucky, the stupid TPG's will probably grade it only a "2" (or perhaps a "1.5").

.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Here's something to consider concerning the T213's. The original American Lithograph journal that was discovered covers the years of 1909-1912.
In the journal it has instructions on what to insert in the cigarette packs and cartons. There are 45 brands in the journal including all the t206 brands
Coupon cigarettes isn't included in the 45 brands in the ALC journal.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-20-2021, 07:19 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Thanks Ted! I love those Coupon Type 1's as well! Coincidentally, 80% of the Southern League Type 1 Coupons are For Sale in current REA Auction. (16 of 20). That would be a Big step toward your completion of the Coupon Type 1's! Some of the Highest Graded examples known as well!!
Jeremy

I have already bid on all your Southern Leaguers, and I will be checking them out when the auction ends this weekend.

It's quite interesting that the majority of 1910 COUPON cards are graded "1" or "2". My Matty is a "2"....but, in my opinion it deserves a "3".





TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-21-2021, 09:43 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

For a few reasons I have always thought the t213-1's were printed after they stopped printing the t206's. If they were printed at the same time why would they use a different cardboard stock, I know they're rare but if they were printed at the same time why wouldn't we see a couple of T213's that were printed on the thicker stock by mistake or t206's on the thinner stock printed by mistake. There have also been many finds that have a mix of a few scarce backs like Broad Leaf and Lenox but I don't recall any that had t213's.

I think the ledger pages from the journal might be the best evidence that they were printed later. The dates are from early 1909 to 1912 and after making a list I found there are 35 different cigarette brands in the journal. There are 45 on the index page but 10 of them are repeats of the same brand. All of the t206 cigarette brands have a ledger page with instruction on how many cards to insert in the packs and cartons. Coupon cigarettes isn't in the journal anywhere.

img399.jpg

img400.jpg

img401.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-21-2021, 12:51 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Pat

We have discussed this 1910 COUPON situation numerous times before on this forum. Apparently, some people did NOT get the message.

Here is the most noteworthy evidence which proves this issue was PRINTED and ISSUED circa Spring/Summer 1910.
And, there is more evidence that I can present, but I'll spare it for now.

First, I will illustrate the printing factor with this picture. The similarity of the design of these five backs absolutely fixes the date to no later
than the Summer of 1910.






2nd......
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Jeremy

You and I (and some T206 collectors on this forum) agree that the 1910 COUPON cards should be included in the family of the T206 tobacco brands.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The INITIAL OFFERING of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes. Newspaper clippings (dated 1909 - 1910) introducing this new ATC brand.

Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).


.




Further proof of this is evident on my Doolan card which has cardboard residue on it from being pasted on a cigarette carton.

.


Folks....if the above info does not convince you of the 1910 date, then stay tuned for more proof.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 05-21-2021, 06:29 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Hmmm ok Ted let me see if I have this right. Because they used a similar back design that pinpoints the date to 1910 over an original American Lithograph journal
that covers all the tobacco cards issued from 1909-1912. That makes about as much sense as when you suggested the t206 fronts were laminated
on pre printed backs.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-21-2021, 08:15 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Pat

If you do NOT see the stylistic similarity of the design of these 5 backs indicating that they were printed during the Summer 1910 timeline,
then you have no appreciation for the operation at American Lithographic's art department. These designs were simultaneously printed in
the Spring/Summer of 1910. The same was true with another stylistic back design during the 350-only Series (CAROLINA BRIGHTS).






Furthermore,
This information is derived from an ATC journal regarding the May 1911 DIVESTURE ACT, which broke up American Tobacco Company's
monopoly.

Liggett & Myers was given about 28 per cent of the cigarette market:

Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
COUPON
King Bee
Fatima

P. Lorillard received 15 per cent of the nation's business:

Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and all straight Turkish brands

American Tobacco retained 37 per cent of the market:

Pall Mall
Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca


Note that the COUPON brand is assigned to L & M.....proving to us that it was in the marketplace during 1910.
Newspaper clippings (circa 1909) exist which inform us this new ATC brand was being introduced.



THAT'S ALL FOLKS, CASE IS CLOSED !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-21-2021, 08:59 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat

If you do NOT see the stylistic similarity of the design of these 5 backs indicating that they were printed during the Summer 1910 timeline,
then you have no appreciation for the operation at American Lithographic's art department. These designs were simultaneously printed in
the Spring/Summer of 1910. The same was true with another stylistic back design during the 350-only Series (CAROLINA BRIGHTS).






Furthermore,
This information is derived from an ATC journal regarding the May 1911 DIVESTURE ACT, which broke up American Tobacco Company's
monopoly.

Liggett & Myers was given about 28 per cent of the cigarette market:

Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
COUPON
King Bee
Fatima

P. Lorillard received 15 per cent of the nation's business:

Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and all straight Turkish brands

American Tobacco retained 37 per cent of the market:

Pall Mall
Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca


Note that the COUPON brand is assigned to L & M.....proving to us that it was in the marketplace during 1910.
Newspaper clippings (circa 1909) exist which inform us this new ATC brand was being introduced.



THAT'S ALL FOLKS, CASE IS CLOSED !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

How does any of this prove the t213-1's were printed in1910?

In a previous thread about them you and Jeremy both claimed the 1910 date came from a newspaper ad and that Jeremy had the ad.
After days of saying he was going to dig out the ad he admitted he had mistaken it for an Old Mill or Hindu ad.


I have two questions for you. Have you looked at the ALC journal?
If the t213-1's were printed with the t206's why aren't they in the journal?
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-21-2021, 09:50 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
How does any of this prove the t213-1's were printed in1910?

In a previous thread about them you and Jeremy both claimed the 1910 date came from a newspaper ad and that Jeremy had the ad.
After days of saying he was going to dig out the ad he admitted he had mistaken it for an Old Mill or Hindu ad.
I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A NEWSPAPER ADV. !

I referred to Newspaper clippings (circa 1909-1910) announcing that ATC was introducing a new Tobacco brand, labelled COUPON.

It's bad enough that you constantly try to "trash" anything I present on Net54, but now you are "busting" Jeremy. I do feel sorry for you !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
I have two questions for you. Have you looked at the ALC journal ?
If the t213-1's were printed with the t206's why aren't they in the journal?
What ALC journal are you referring to ? ?

And, your 2nd ? here doesn't make any sense.

Here is my simulated 48-card sheet comprising of the Major League subjects in the 1910 COUPON set. My educated guess is: this represents a 350-only series
sheet which American Lithographic (ALC) "borrowed " to print the 1910 COUPON cards approx. in the same timeframe (Spring/Summer 1910) that ALC printed
these T206's with PIEDMONT, SWEET CAP, SOVEREIGN, etc. backs

To my Engineering thinking mind that makes logical sense to me.


1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League 48 subjects






TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-21-2021, 10:00 PM
brianp-beme's Avatar
brianp-beme brianp-beme is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,717
Default

Here's my only T213-1 Coupon, and it qualifies as one of my favorites, even if it is obviously in rough shape. In fact I'm surprised any of these T213-1 cards survived in nicer shape than mine...they are thin! In fact, it is so thin and fragile, I decided against removing it from the sleeve when I scanned it.

Brian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg t213onecouponhoward 001.jpg (47.0 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg t213onecouponhowardback 001.jpg (53.6 KB, 99 views)
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05-22-2021, 05:21 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A NEWSPAPER ADV. !

I referred to Newspaper clippings (circa 1909-1910) announcing that ATC was introducing a new Tobacco brand, labelled COUPON.

It's bad enough that you constantly try to "trash" anything I present on Net54, but now you are "busting" Jeremy. I do feel sorry for you !




What ALC journal are you referring to ? ?

And, your 2nd ? here doesn't make any sense.

Here is my simulated 48-card sheet comprising of the Major League subjects in the 1910 COUPON set. My educated guess is: this represents a 350-only series
sheet which American Lithographic (ALC) "borrowed " to print the 1910 COUPON cards approx. in the same timeframe (Spring/Summer 1910) that ALC printed
these T206's with PIEDMONT, SWEET CAP, SOVEREIGN, etc. backs

To my Engineering thinking mind that makes logical sense to me.


1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League 48 subjects






TED Z

T206 Reference
.
It's actually an original ATC journal with ledger pages from 1909-1912.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-22-2021, 06:05 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A NEWSPAPER ADV. !

I referred to Newspaper clippings (circa 1909-1910) announcing that ATC was introducing a new Tobacco brand, labelled COUPON.

It's bad enough that you constantly try to "trash" anything I present on Net54, but now you are "busting" Jeremy. I do feel sorry for you !




What ALC journal are you referring to ? ?

And, your 2nd ? here doesn't make any sense.

Here is my simulated 48-card sheet comprising of the Major League subjects in the 1910 COUPON set. My educated guess is: this represents a 350-only series
sheet which American Lithographic (ALC) "borrowed " to print the 1910 COUPON cards approx. in the same timeframe (Spring/Summer 1910) that ALC printed
these T206's with PIEDMONT, SWEET CAP, SOVEREIGN, etc. backs

To my Engineering thinking mind that makes logical sense to me.


1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League 48 subjects






TED Z

T206 Reference
.

I'm not "busting" on anyone I'm stating true facts from a previous thread.
At the time you and I were emailing about the ad Jeremy said he had and
you said to give him time to dig it out that he was busy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Pat
1st.....Here is exactly what I said in the 1st post in this thread...…..



Pat....do notice that I stated...."Such a cigarette carton"

This particular carton which Jeremy posted in his thread some years ago contained COUPON cigarettes manufactured in 1913 - 1919. And, if cards were enclosed in this type of carton,
they would have been either T213-2 or T213-3.

This we know for sure, since the LIGGETT & MYERS TOBACCO CO. logo is printed on it.


The ATC divesture (circa June 1911) resulted in the following manner…………

LIGGETT & MYERS was given about 28 per cent of the cigarette market:

Coupon
Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
King Bee
Fatima (the only 15 Turkish blend
and the cheap straight domestic brands.

P. LORILLARD received 15 per cent of the nation's business:

Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and all straight Turkish brands

AMERICAN TOBACCO CO. retained 37 per cent of the market:

Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca
Pall Mall, its expensive all-Turkish brand, named for a fashionable London street in the 18th century where "pall-mall" (a precursor to croquet) was played.

R. J. REYNOLDS received no cigarette line but was awarded 20 per cent of the plug trade.



2nd....." and can you answer the question of where the 1910 date for the type 1 comes from."

Approx 10 years ago, Louisiana Newspaper clippings (1909 or 1910) were posted in a Net54 thread introducing the new ATC tobacco brand, COUPON
.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
That's the 1908 Times Picayune article which I referred to regarding the "COUPON" Cigarettes brand. I knew you would find it.

Come on Pat, this is silly...."but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.".

T206's were not issued until approx. a year later (circa Spring/Summer 1909).

Anyway, thanks for finding this Newspaper article.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
That's my point Ted I asked where the 1910 dating of the T213-1's came from and
you said a newspaper clipping if that's not the case then where did that information
come from?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Maybe, Like many other things, it came from conjecture not fact. When I started quoting Burdick all I got in response was some old hobbyists said "this and that." I say if we are going to have a good debate we should base it on facts not what someone might have said a long time ago.
[QUOTE=DixieBaseball;1842495]LOL...

The 20 Southern Leaguer's are not included in the Type 2 or Type 3 Set. That is one glaring difference in the the Type 1's vs the Type 2 & 3's. Obviously the dates are different and the 20 Type 1 Southern Leaguer's are identical to the T206 players from 1909-11, yet not included in the 1914 & 1919 Coupon sets. If you take for example the 4 SL Nashville players (Bay,Bernhard,Ellam,Perdue) from the T206 set, they match spot on to the Type 1 Coupon set, but when you get into the Type 2 1914 Coupons, Nashville players change over to Al Bridwell & Gabby Street & same for Type 3 Coupons as they feature Al & Gabby. It's like this with other players from SL teams and that makes a distinction between the 20 SL featured in Coupon that were offered in the American Litho / ATC brands later named - T206.

Also, as for the New Orleans Times Picayune, there was a series of Coupon Advertisements in the 1909-10 papers depicting different Sportsmen scenarios, like hunting, horse racing, sporting events, etc. The pack is on the advertisement with T206 style cards showing and players names. One such advertisement (that I own), depicts 3 Southern Leaguer's coming out of the top of the pack. When I have time I will have to dig up the Newspaper as I don't have it scanned and its buried in a dry dark place. The Coupon Ad's were run for a handful of months around the 1909-10 time frame.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Tony and Jeremy

I really appreciate your posts. Both of you have amplified on a lot of factors which I have presented here in my earlier posts.

Jeremy....it would be great if you can show us your New Orleans Times Picayune papers with the Coupon Advertisements (1909-1910 )
depicting different Sportsmen scenarios.


Thanks again,


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Hey Guys - Sorry, been away at Volleyball Tourneys the past serveral days... I still need to read and catch up on this thread, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned... The Federal Leaguers seem to be key to the time difference in the Type 1 and Type 2's, correct !? Burdick seem to get the Type 2 dating correct as that set is loaded with Federal leaguer's (Federal League 1913-15) and a perfect example is Al Bridwell 1914 Type 2 card - St. Louis Terriers Fed league team. Bridwell is also featured in the Type 2 set with a Nashville card having spent time bouncing around SL a bit. There are other examples in the Type 2 set of Minor League/Federal Leaguer's who are not featured in the Type 1 set as well. To me it seems fairly obvious the 4 Nashville players featured in ATC/American Litho 1909-11 are Bay, Bernhard, Perdue, and Ellam. Those 4 Nashville players are absent in the Type 2 and 3 sets as well as the obvious blue lettering which distinguishes the 2&3 sets from the Type 1. Two Clear examples that Type 1 were most likely not printed in and around the time of the Type 2 and 3 sets.

Pat - Thanks for all the advertisement examples of OM & Hindu... I think that may be what I have buried in my collection. I will dig it up at some point and verify... Too big to scan, and I haven't looked at it in years... Regardless of an advertisement, sure that is clear proof, but Coupon Type 1 cards are so rare, I doubt they had a Advertising campaign like the other ATC brands. While it would be nice to have a clearly dated advertisement as proof, I think its clear by the Federal league example aforementioned and the 4 Nashville players mirroring the T206 4 Nashville players that its more likely the Coupons were produced around 1909-11 than around 1913-19 like the Type 2 and 3's with blue lettering and glossy/thicker cardboard. It's only a matter of time as type 1's lean way more towards the 1910 date, than they do any other date imho.

Thanks, J
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-22-2021, 04:01 PM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Coupons Type 1’s are rare bc of distribution pattern....

Ted - Per your comments below... I absolutely agree these cards were randomly attached to Coupon Cartons. (See my Examples below) : The Greminger has Carton layer/residue on the reverse still stuck to it and the Coupon Carton has a patchy area in upper right hand corner and is missing a thin layer of carton where something was attached to it and was removed. Plenty of Type 1 Coupon examples with the missing paper in the same spot on the upper middle back. Now look at the carton below... Unfortunately, I have only seen 2 Cartons in my life as they are fragile and have not survived and I own one. I wish I could find the other one to review for paper loss to the carton and see if it is in the same spot. Doesn't have to be as you could attach the card anywhere I suppose, but it makes sense that the upper right of the carton would have the card attached and consistent with pattern of the paper loss on card and carton.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0220E2E8-DD50-4E0F-B194-D4E8EC3E2FB1.jpg (20.2 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg 903E0CC7-6516-4D41-BADF-0202F78D51E3.jpg (19.8 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg GremingerReverse.jpg (76.4 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg GremingerFront.jpg (77.0 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg D8F4CCBC-B5F0-4FF2-B261-F2DA1C24A319.jpg (19.7 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg 10AE9302-17DC-4D8C-BFBC-EFB2477600EA.jpg (20.2 KB, 74 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 05-22-2021 at 04:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-22-2021, 04:13 PM
rats60's Avatar
rats60 rats60 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,455
Default

Favorite card, love the colors.


Favorite set
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-23-2021, 06:28 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DixieBaseball View Post
Ted - Per your comments below... I absolutely agree these cards were randomly attached to Coupon Cartons. (See my Examples below) : The Greminger has Carton layer/residue on the reverse still stuck to it and the Coupon Carton has a patchy area in upper right hand corner and is missing a thin layer of carton where something was attached to it and was removed. Plenty of Type 1 Coupon examples with the missing paper in the same spot on the upper middle back. Now look at the carton below... Unfortunately, I have only seen 2 Cartons in my life as they are fragile and have not survived and I own one. I wish I could find the other one to review for paper loss to the carton and see if it is in the same spot. Doesn't have to be as you could attach the card anywhere I suppose, but it makes sense that the upper right of the carton would have the card attached and consistent with pattern of the paper loss on card and carton.

The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON
cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910).
Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some
of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).

If the paper loss on your carton is from having a type 1 glued to it that
would mean they were printed after the t206's according to Ted. He said
your carton is 1913 or later because it has Liggett & Myers on it.
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 05-23-2021, 08:01 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
If the paper loss on your carton is from having a type 1 glued to it that
would mean they were printed after the t206's according to Ted. He said
your carton is 1913 or later because it has Liggett & Myers on it.
The L & M label on these cartons proves nothing in determining when the 1910 COUPON cards were printed. All this indicates is that some 1910 COUPON cards were affixed
to these cartons post ATC Divesture.
The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards,
namely "COUPON"

The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing.

Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these...........





. .



TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-23-2021, 09:55 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
The L & M label on these cartons proves nothing in determining when the 1910 COUPON cards were printed. All this indicates is that some 1910 COUPON cards were affixed
to these cartons post ATC Divesture.
The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards,
namely "COUPON"

The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing.

Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these...........





. .



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
That's the 1908 Times Picayune article which I referred to regarding the "COUPON" Cigarettes brand. I knew you would find it.

Come on Pat, this is silly...."but it doesn't say anything about baseball pictures.".

T206's were not issued until approx. a year later (circa Spring/Summer 1909).

Anyway, thanks for finding this Newspaper article.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

img408.jpg

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont)
the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913.

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-23-2021, 10:28 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Coupon Carton....

The carton I showed is 1 of 2 examples I have ever seen. We don't know what the cartons looked like from 1909-12. Perhaps they were different. I showed the carton to merely indicate that it has paper loss in upper right and the size of the paper loss is the same as the typical size of the paper loss on a Type 1 Coupon. Many Type 1 Coupons have this same paper loss. There is no doubt the Coupons were affixed to something. Too many examples to be a coincidence. Also, keep in mind Coupon changed their coloring, style on packs multiple times. (I have 3 different colors/styles from 3 different decades in my collection) So it's not out of the question, to see a variance of carton or pack. There may be different examples of cartons that didn't survive that look different from 1909-12. We know the packs look different from 1910 era to 1919-20 to 1930's...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Coupon Cig Pack 1.jpg (56.3 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 1 -CouponCigarettesEnd1920.jpg (45.6 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg CouponCigarettePack1920-1.jpg (72.9 KB, 58 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 05-23-2021 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-23-2021, 11:31 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Coupon Cartons/Boxes

New Orleans Retailer with rare image of Coupon Boxes / Cartons in the background for sale behind their Window shelves. I wonder how many Coupon Cartons came to a Coupon Box? 4,5,8, or 10 perhaps... Love the mystery behind this super rare tobacco brand.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1910 CouponCigarettes.jpg (73.6 KB, 56 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-23-2021, 11:41 AM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Jeremy, It doesn't matter to me if people want to group them with t206's
or if they were attached to the outside of cartons what I am interested in
is the date they were printed.

Have you or Ted looked at the ATC journal?

It covers all the cigarette brand in the t206 set and a total of 35 different brands.

Here are some of the t206 pages from that journal

ATC Carolina Brights Ledger page 2.jpg

ATC Cycle Ledger page.jpg

The narrower American Beauty's you brought up were in it

ATC American Beauty Ledger page.jpg


But the Coupon Cigarettes weren't.

Last edited by Pat R; 05-23-2021 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-23-2021, 11:44 AM
Casey2296's Avatar
Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
Is Mudville so bad?
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: West Coast
Posts: 1,413
Default

Neat stuff Jerome, thanks for posting.
__________________
Phil Lewis
.
Original circulation E98 Master set 112/120, Lord help me...
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-23-2021, 11:52 AM
DixieBaseball's Avatar
DixieBaseball DixieBaseball is offline
JeR@Me
member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South
Posts: 1,806
Default Pat....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
Jeremy, It doesn't matter to me if people want to group them with t206's
or if they were attached to the outside of cartons what I am interested in
is the date they were printed.

Have you or Ted looked at the ATC journal?

It covers all the cigarette brand in the t206 set and a total of 35 different brands.

Here are some of the t206 pages from that journal

Attachment 459686

Attachment 459687

The narrower American Beauty's you brought up were in it

Attachment 459688


But the Coupon Cigarettes weren't.
Hey Pat - at some point in near future, I will certainly be looking into your ATC Journal info (thank you for providing-looks interesting), and this thread to review all the comments. Plausible either way I suppose, but certainly will check it out. I am to busy playing offense at the moment, to play defense --- Seriously though, I look forward to reviewing, discussing w/ you and Ted in near future. Just so frikkin busy, and I better get back to pressure washing the back deck as that is what I was suppose to be doing this morning... Meanwhile... let us be Free from Adulteration!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 -CouponCigarettesCartonside.jpg (76.4 KB, 56 views)
__________________
Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia

Last edited by DixieBaseball; 05-23-2021 at 11:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-23-2021, 12:03 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania & Maine
Posts: 8,899
Default Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat R View Post
As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted.

First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908



and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then

Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on

Attachment 459661 Yes, because in 1908 CAROLINA BRIGHTS was a new ATC brand whose TRADEMARK had NOT yet been Registered !

so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is

A similar back design
48 subjects from the 350 only series
Coupon in quotes
Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons

These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910


but the these facts

they're printed on a different stock
Because these cards were not intended to be inserted in Packs as "stiffiners". There are NO packs labelled "COUPON" cigarettes.


the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont) I do not understand what you are stating here, this does NOT make any sense !

the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it.
Keep researching, you'll find one that does include the COUPON brand !

you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913. Totally irrelevant in determining printing date !

so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence?

it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910.
I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-23-2021, 12:28 PM
Pat R's Avatar
Pat R Pat R is offline
P@trick R.omolo
member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
I'm not grasping at any straws.

You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self.

Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned).

Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread.


Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards.


TED Z
.

Well Ted if posting facts is "making a fool of myself" so be it at least I can say I never faked a scan to prove myself right.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=136566
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-23-2021, 12:34 PM
atx840's Avatar
atx840 atx840 is online now
Chris Browne
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,369
Default

Some of my favorites.



__________________
T206 gallery
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Post your 3 favorites - postwar edition! jchcollins Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) 37 11-02-2019 11:26 AM
Post Your 3 Favorites Rhotchkiss Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 95 10-28-2019 03:21 PM
Show some of your favorites Mikehealer Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 38 06-16-2012 01:10 PM
They r back Post your favorites GrayGhost Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 20 11-18-2011 04:46 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:54 PM.


ebay GSB