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  #1  
Old 05-17-2021, 11:38 AM
Scocs Scocs is offline
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Default Hake’s and CSG?

I just visited the Hake's website for their latest auction that opened today.

I was dumbfounded by the fact that EVERY baseball card I saw -- vintage and modern, Cuban and American -- was in a new CSG holder. This is even true for 1920s Cuban "Richard Merkin Collection" cards that formally resided in old SGC holders.

What's going on? Did I miss something?

Thanks for the help,
Scott

Last edited by Scocs; 05-17-2021 at 11:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2021, 11:56 AM
parkplace33 parkplace33 is offline
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Maybe they are all from the same consignor?
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:08 PM
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Maybe they don't trust the other ones.

.
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Maybe they don't trust the other ones.

.
Or maybe they did not want to pay outlandish grading fees with who knows what turnaround times.
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  #5  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:24 PM
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No disrespect to Richard Merkin but isn't just a little unusual for the flips to carry that designation? I don't really see what it accomplishes.
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:25 PM
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I think it's more likely that the auction house went with the grading company that was less expensive. PSA and SGC cost more (especially when these would have been submitted before SGC dropped their rates). Somebody has to take a chance sooner or later, I guess. I don't think it's a matter of trust as CSG is new and their head graders, while having previous TPG experience, weren't exactly getting flooded with submissions at their old place of employment (especially vintage) because people trusted their opinions the most.

That being said, this is good news for CSG and helps to legitimize them in the marketplace. I went back and looked (slow day at work) and the OP is right about there being a lot of CSG cards. Not all of them are, but 308 out of 347 graded cards in the auction are graded by CSG. Because this spans eras and sports, I think it's not one consigner, but the auction house. Many of the CSG cards are newer, from the 1970's etc.
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
No disrespect to Richard Merkin but isn't just a little unusual for the flips to carry that designation? I don't really see what it accomplishes.
Richard has been dead for over a decade, I think this was Hake's decision. In the past, many of the cards were not even graded.
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:33 PM
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Ah. I thought it was a crossover and not a newly graded item. The designation is even stranger then.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Ah. I thought it was a crossover and not a newly graded item. The designation is even stranger then.
I think it's great they put significant names on holders. Sometimes I will pay a little more for them too...

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  #10  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:53 PM
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Just seems odd that someone would take a card from an older SGC “Merkin” flip and holder and submit it to a new grading company...unless they just wanted all their cards under one unified CSG banner?
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:58 PM
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A merkin collection. Talk about a niche collectible.
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2021, 01:03 PM
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Merkin jokes aside, who are the people behind CSG?
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2021, 01:55 PM
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Default Csg

I don't care what SGC turnaround times are or even what they are charging, for anything post-1940's I'll either wait for PSA or use CSG. For anything ultra-modern, I'll even try HGA before using SGC.

I sent 7 cards to CSG a month ago, just to try them out. I haven't heard anything yet. I sent 5 2020 cards to HGA last week. Within 2 days I received confirmation that they received my order. My son-in-law helped me get into HGA. We had to have 6 PC's logged in trying to win their "lottery" and we lucked out. Yes, this is ridiculous but it was kind of fun.

Don't get me wrong, PSA is still who I want to use. I want to make it as easy as possible for my son and son-in-law to resell when the time comes.

I'm not anti-SGC when purchasing since you can get some great deals. When I get an SGC post-war card, I immediately bust it out.

Just my 2 cents, FWIW which is pretty much nothing!
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2021, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
I think it's great they put significant names on holders. Sometimes I will pay a little more for them too...
Well they can't be from the original graded collection or they'd have the SGC flip that the original collection had. I guess it's possible they were raw cards the whole time, but in that case they weren't part of the submission that became the "Merkin Collection". So, it does seem odd for them to still carry the designation. Guess it doesn't change much in the end though.

Last edited by packs; 05-17-2021 at 05:07 PM.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2021, 02:13 PM
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...unless they busted ‘em out of their old SGC holders. Just curious as to why.
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  #16  
Old 05-17-2021, 07:47 PM
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They were not in SGC holders to begin with.
I believe most of Merkins collection were raw cards, Hakes is the one that decided to get them graded for higher resale.
When it comes to Cuban cards, buy the card, not the holder/flip.
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Last edited by mannybb24; 05-17-2021 at 07:48 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2021, 07:08 AM
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Wonder what kind of proof of provenance they had to supply CSG to get the slabs labeled with the name of a guy who's been dead 10 years.
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2021, 07:36 AM
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I think I've found a better way to articulate why I think it's weird.

Using Leon's Lionel Carter example, wouldn't it be strange if "new" Lionel Carter Collection cards were slabbed all these years later because they weren't originally graded?
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  #19  
Old 05-18-2021, 08:19 AM
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What surprises me most is that CSG graded the (Cuban) cards. When I have spoken with them in the past about baseball and soccer cards at this level of obscurity (as opposed to their bread-and-butter major sets) or maybe even more common than these, they said they wouldn't grade them....

Last edited by Frankish; 05-18-2021 at 08:19 AM.
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  #20  
Old 05-18-2021, 08:34 AM
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Question for those who have CSG graded cards in hand....

How do they physically stack up with PSA and SGC graded cards (for storage purposes).

I typically stack my PSA graded cards (since they are slightly smaller) on top of my SGC cards, throw a rubber band around them all and store them away.

If I added CSG graded cards to that bundle, how would I stack them? CSG on bottom, top or between PSA and SGC.

Thanks,
Christopher
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  #21  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:07 PM
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When Hake’s obtained the Merkin collection in 2009-2010 we submitted the bulk of Richard’s cards to SGC. They were so impressed with the depth of his collection they established the Richard Merkin Pedigree and all cards authenticated/graded by them were designated as such. The volume of Richard’s collections (much more than just baseball) can’t be overstated. For a decade we have been working through the immense amount of material and over the years have come across more cards and have been saving them up for another submission. We went to SGC last year to grade additional Merkin cards and at that time they decided they no longer wanted to honor the pedigree they helped establish. That is where CSG comes in, they were very accommodating and happy to continue the Merkin legacy that has been so well received over the years. Richard’s Cuban and Negro League collection was second to none. Look for more Merkin CSG cards in the future. All cards in CSG holders are first time at auction, these have never been offered before, raw or other third party graded. All items have been documented as Merkin collection by both his widow and Hake’s staff.
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  #22  
Old 05-18-2021, 12:56 PM
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Wow, thank you for the reply! I would have simply reached out to Hake’s first but didn’t think I’d be able to speak to anyone who could adequately answer the question...
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  #23  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:23 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher.herman View Post
Question for those who have CSG graded cards in hand....



How do they physically stack up with PSA and SGC graded cards (for storage purposes).



I typically stack my PSA graded cards (since they are slightly smaller) on top of my SGC cards, throw a rubber band around them all and store them away.



If I added CSG graded cards to that bundle, how would I stack them? CSG on bottom, top or between PSA and SGC.



Thanks,

Christopher
They stack with PSA. Not quite identical but very close, close enough to stack.

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  #24  
Old 05-18-2021, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
They stack with PSA. Not quite identical but very close, close enough to stack.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Right on. Thanks
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  #25  
Old 05-18-2021, 04:57 PM
BRoberts BRoberts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scocs View Post
Wow, thank you for the reply! I would have simply reached out to Hake’s first but didn’t think I’d be able to speak to anyone who could adequately answer the question...
That's pretty much the norm. Most Net54 posters would much rather publicly wonder about an auction house's actions or policies instead of making a call or sending an email directly to the source.
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2021, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Maybe they don't trust the other ones.

.
If they truly trust csg more, they are dumber than most of the posters left on net54. Leon there’s no way you believe some of the garbage you spout on here lately no freaking way.
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