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  #1  
Old 01-08-2005, 09:02 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Bill A.

Just two requests for you Robert:

First, I agree that documented Cobb gamers are generally between 34 and 35" (which incidentally is one of the primary reasons SCD graded the Cobb decal bat an A-5. You went on to indicate you have perfpormed extensive research and determine Cobb never used a bat shorter than 34". Here is my challenge Robert...PRESENT THE FINDINGS OF YOUR EXTENSIVE RESEARCH.

Second, it appears your new subject is autograph authentication. I was told that you had a bunch of fake autographs turned down by PSA including a Ruth Single signed ball...CONFIRM OR DENY THAT YOU HAVE IT IN FOR PSA BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T AUTHENTICATE YOUR FAKE AUTOGRAPHS.

Robert, it is great you choose and audience of knowledable vintage card lovers to bring up all your rantings about game used equipment, an area you know nothing about. I wish you would start making accusations about vintage cards so these good people could eat you up and find out how little you know on all subjects!


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  #2  
Old 01-08-2005, 10:14 PM
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Posted By: Robert Plancich

First of all Bill you have me at a disadvantage, what is your last name? Also, I see that your login name is "batcollector" so I am assuming that you know something about bats. Maybe you could enlighten me with respect to this Cobb bat?

I have stated several times that I am not an expert, that is why I would really like to hear from Dave Bushing on this matter and/or yourself if you are up to it. I would think that the relatively simple questions I have posed should be relatively simple for the "world's foremost expert" to answer. Wouldn't you agree? You yourself agree that Cobb gamers are generally between 34" and 35" so where is the proof on this bat that Cobb used a 33 1/2" decal bat. I am not the expert that authenticated this bat, Dave Bushing is, therefore it would make much more sense and be of greater benefit to the members of this forum to hear from the "world's foremost expert" rather than listen to me. Wouldn't you agree?

Now here's what I don't understand and apparently you don't either. The LOA on this bat states that it's a Ty Cobb game-used Louisville Slugger decal bat. Now I am assuming that it is meant that the bat was used by Ty Cobb and yet it was graded an A5. Now according to SCDA's bat grading criteria an A5 is an authenticated bat with noted problems of usage or player characteristics. In fact, the A5 description states that "physical characteristics have been examined and negative traits are present. This includes no game use." Per review of the LOA under the heading of "Player Characteristics (Negative)" there is nothing listed. My question is how can this bat have been authenticated as being used by Cobb when SCDA's own grade of A5 says that it wasn't. This bat purpotedly has "Cobb style cleat marks" and exhibits "heavy" game use and yet there are no "visible ball or stitch marks" on this bat. Maybe the tree that this bat came from was exposed to some of the early forms of the "cream and/or clear" from Balco, probably obtained from Victor Conti's great, great grandfather. I think you can see my point - how can a bat that is graded an A5 and by definition have no use be authenticated as a bat that exhibits heavy game-use by Cobb? In the New York Daily News (NYDN) article Dave Bushing himself states that he can't place Cobb within 500 miles of this bat!

I'll make a deal with you Bill A. you show me Dave Bushing's extensive research that substantiates his LOA on this bat and I'll show you mine and then we can let the members of this forum decide. Better yet,I'll contact the NYDN and see if they would like to do a follow-up story to the one that they recently published. How does that sound?

Now, with respect to your second request I would have to deny that I have it in for PSA. However, they did decline to authenticate one of my Ruth balls. But instead of going into to here I would propose that if there is enough interest from the board on this topic then I would like to post all of the original emails to/from PSA (Spence, Grad, Orlando) and then the board could make it's own determinations about what actually happened and if Spence and Grad are actually autograph experts. I will post the LOA on the Ruth ball that they did authenticate and the Letter of Opinion (LOO) on the other Ruth ball that they declined to authenticate. Just so you know, I had questions about both of the opinions that they issued (good and bad) and they refused to answer any of them. It wasn't that I was disagreeeing with their LOO, I just wanted some clarification and they couldn't provide that information. How strange, they write you a letter and refuse to answer anything about the statements made in said letter. Sounds kind of like the Cobb decal bat SCDA LOA - wouldn't you agree?

While we are in the mode of "full disclosue" maybe you'd be willing to tell me who told you that I "had a bunch of fake autographs turned down by PSA". Certainly, the identity of this individual(s) isn't going to jeopardize National security.

Finally, I must admit that I really don't understand what you're trying to say in the third paragraph of your post. I think that you're a bit confused because I don't make "accusations" about vintage cards or anything else. Everything that I say I can back up and substantiate. Can you?

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  #3  
Old 01-08-2005, 10:58 PM
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Posted By: Bill A.

O.K. so we know PSAdna has blocked your e-mails just like every other reputable person in the hobby....and you have in fact had your fake autographs (more than just the Ruth) turned down and you got into some type of fight over it.

Lets get to the bat...on a public forum you pumped your chest and indicated you have done "extensive research". Dave has never posted on this forum so I wouldn't expect him to respond. I would expect you to back up your lofty statement. Come on Robert. You state you're organization is here to help. Please let us all in on your "extensive research" on Cobb bats. Don't turn the question to Balco and steroids. The only thing on steriods here are your pumped up claims to have done "extensive research".

On Cobb using the bat. Again you show your lack of knowledge on this subject. When authenticators use the name of a player associated with a game used bat they are not saying necessarily that they can place it into the hands of the player. Only perfect provenence, side-writting, vault marks, etc. place it in the players hands. That is why a "1921-31 Game Used Babe Ruth bat" may sell for $50,000 while a "1927 Side Written Game Used Babe Ruth bat" may sell for a quarter of a million dollars. This is consistent throughout the industry. Any advanced bat collectors know that certain game attributes (e.g. hitting surface, wood quality, spike marks, scored hitting surface) add to the probability that a certain player used it but never has a players name associated with the words game used meant that the seller is insinuating they can definitively place it in the players hand.

Anxiously awaiting your "extensive research" on Cobb bat lengths. Seriously if you have overturned something in what you are calling your "extensive research" it may make my 35" Cobb gamer worth more money.

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  #4  
Old 01-08-2005, 11:01 PM
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Posted By: MW

Bill,

You seem to know something about bats. Question: How does one explain the following?

<< Now here's what I don't understand and apparently you don't either. The LOA on this bat states that it's a Ty Cobb game-used Louisville Slugger decal bat. Now I am assuming that it is meant that the bat was used by Ty Cobb and yet it was graded an A5. Now according to SCDA's bat grading criteria an A5 is an authenticated bat with noted problems of usage or player characteristics. In fact, the A5 description states that "physical characteristics have been examined and negative traits are present. This includes no game use." Per review of the LOA under the heading of "Player Characteristics (Negative)" there is nothing listed. My question is how can this bat have been authenticated as being used by Cobb when SCDA's own grade of A5 says that it wasn't. >>

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  #5  
Old 01-09-2005, 05:40 AM
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Posted By: Robert Plancich

I apologize for lack of knowledge on this subject. I have mistakenly assumed that the LOA that Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen issued on the Cobb bat means that Ty Cobb used the bat, but now you are telling me that it doesn't. I don't understand why Dave Bushing can't tell us if Cobb used this bat. His LOA states that Cobb's cleat marks are on the bat, if he can tell whos cleat marks are on the bat then why is it so hard for him to tell who used the bat.

It's that same old circular logic and reasoning here at play. It's not a game-used bat used by Ty Cobb, it's a Ty Cobb decal bat that was used by somebody and no one knows who used it! Is that right Bill A. Oh, I forgot, we don't know who used it but Dave knows whose cleat marks are on it though. Then why issue a LOA on this bat at all? Do you actually think that the poor collector who bought this bat for $37k wants the bat if Cobb didn't use it?

I am tired of all these experts writing LOA's on things that they know nothing about. Troy Kinunen posts on this board and so do you Bill. maybe you could contact Dave Bushing and he could clear this whole thing up for us since he is the "world's foremost authority" on the subject.

Bill, it's your turn to play kiss and tell. How about it? Can you tell us your last name? Come out, come out, wherever you are Billy!

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  #6  
Old 01-09-2005, 06:34 AM
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Posted By: Bill A.

MW, that is a good question I have not reviewed the LOA but my understanding is althought there are positive attributes like cleat marks (typical of Cobb gamers) that are mentioned the bat is still an A-5 most likely due to the fact that 33 1/2" were not typical of documented Cobb gamers (documented gamers would include known side-written examples, examples with provenence linking them to Cobb).

Now to Robby, again you show your lack of knowledge. The name of the player associated with game used has never in the bat collecting world placed the bat in the players hands! That is why there is such a premium placed on bats when you can. All of the attributes are what gain confidence that a bat could have in fact been used by the player. My Cobb bat is an A-5. Although the length and weight is there the quality of the wood is not what you would expect from a Cobb gamer. Admittedly I purchased a "poor mans cobb" just like the guy who purchased the decal bat. By the way with picture perfect Cobb gamers going for close to $100k the amount AM fetched for this one is not out of the question. I wouldn't have thought it would be worth more than $20 to $25,000. I agree that it would be unusual to find Cobb using a 33 1/2 " bat. That is not the point. You indicate you have done, I believe the words are "extensive research". I WILL TRY ONE MORE TIME PLEASE PROVIDE US YOUR EXTENSIVE RESEARCH. Come on show us what CARDS is supposed to do for the hobby. If you have done the extensive research provide it. I believe my posts have educated people. What about yours?

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  #7  
Old 01-09-2005, 09:43 AM
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Posted By: PaulPaulPaul

I'm not going to take sides on anyone's expertise because I know nothing about the subject. But Bill raised a point that I think should be displayed in neon lights.

He says that the phrase "game used Ty Cobb bat" does not mean that Ty Cobb used the bat. This may be common knowledge among the few bat collectors who specialize in these big ticket items. But it is certainly not common knowledge among those who might buy a lesser item like a "game used Willie McCovey bat." It is also probably not common knowledge among what has become a major portion of the market for big ticket memorabilia -- the Billy Crystals and Charlie Sheens of the world.

Now, I don't feel sorry for Billy Crystal, etc., if they spend a quarter million without doing their homework. On the other hand, the phrase "game used Ty Cobb bat" is downright deceptive to the vast majority of the public, even if a few insiders know its true meaning. And the deception is aggravated when the seller or authenticator makes public statements that further create the impression that the particular player actually used the bat. That happened with the Cobb bat.

If this ever went to court (and with items this expensive, someday it will), I have very little doubt that no judge or jury would respect industry insider code, and would instead conclude that the seller knowingly exaggerated the authenticity of the item.

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  #8  
Old 01-09-2005, 10:12 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Bill, you still keep dodging an important question that has been asked of you, what is your last name? Robert has asked you several times now and you have ignored it each time.

Hoe much more do you want him to say about his research on the bat. Over the course of all his posts he has said there is no documented evidence that Cobb used a decal bat and that he did use bats shorter than 34". I may have forgotten some other things he listed.

I would think that you should be asking these questions of Mr Bushing. He is the "expert" and better be able to back up his claims. Robert has never claimed to be an expert, but has present evidence each time he has questioned the authenticity of various items. The burden of proof should lie with the expert, especially when when there are serious doubts about his conclusions.

I also would like to see this whole game used bat thing cleared so that there is no possible confusion between a bat that Ty Cobb used in a game, and Ty Cobb model bat that was used by somebody, but not sure exactly who. This is a pretty import distinction.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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  #9  
Old 01-09-2005, 10:28 AM
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Posted By: PASJD

Hold on here folks, I think I am seeing Bill Clinton's deposition again (depends what the meaning of "is" is). An item auctioned as a "Ty Cobb game used bat" with a certificate of authenticity does NOT necessarily mean the seller and authenticators are representing that Ty Cobb used the bat in a game? Sorry folks I am just a dumb lawyer but I couldn't sell that verbal dance to a jury in a million years even if it was in the fine print somewhere. What am I missing here? And I agree with Robert, Bill it would enhance your credibility in all of our eyes if you did not hide behind a screen of anonymity. Robert has told us his name and who he is, so if you want us to believe you and not him (presumably the purpose of your posts or you would have just emailed Robert privately) then I think you should identify yourself and give us your credentials.

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  #10  
Old 01-09-2005, 10:59 AM
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Posted By: Joe P.

Unlike Mr Robert Plancich, not only has he avoided giving his name, he has also DANCED around every question asked of him.

Billy Boy's only capability is to name call and accuse with no facts whatsoever to back it up.

Don't expect a name from someone that can not back up what he/she says.

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  #11  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:12 AM
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Posted By: Bill A.

Sorry, I was out for a couple hours. I am not hidding behind anything. My name is no bid deal as I really don't have any credintials other than being a vintage game used bat collector. My name is Bill Andrews. I am not at active buyer anymore. I was in the early days when they were much cheaper.

I don't think I have avoided any other questions. I am a supporter of Bushing, Taube, Malta, etc. as even tho I am not a big player they have always been very good about answering questions and providing information (the books they have written, the time they take when I call with a dumb quesion).

Sorry if my posts have offended. I just hate to see a guy like Plancich who has no credentials make such awful accusations about people who I have found to be quite respectable and do it to an audience who has very little knowledge about the field wherein he has set up his soapbox.

I simply want Robert to support his comment. He made accusations based on the fact that he has done "EXTENSIVE RESEARCH" that has supported the fact that Cobb never used a bat less than 34".

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Old 01-09-2005, 11:20 AM
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Posted By: PASJD

I make no claims for myself but I think the characterization of this group as one with "very little knowledge" that is going to be duped by Robert is extremely condescending and inappropriate. There are some extremely knowledgeable people here. In any event, the facts are not difficult for intelligent people to understand. This is memorabilia, not astrophysics.

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Old 01-09-2005, 12:06 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Bill A wrote: "Sorry if my posts have offended. I just hate to see a guy like Plancich who has no credentials make such awful accusations about people who I have found to be quite respectable and do it to an audience who has very little knowledge about the field wherein he has set up his soapbox."

Can you really respect the opinion of someone who authenticates a Louisville Slugger bat to be Ichiro's first bat used in the ML's when photographic and video evidence show that Ichiro took a Mizuno up to the plate? How about authenticating a Rawlings glove as a 1969 gamer when even the Rawlings company says that the glove didn't exist until 5 years later? You've stated that you own a collection of bats, including a game used Cobb bat....It seems to me that you have a lot to lose if the truth about the game used memorabila authentication business is uncovered. All we want to know is how they are authenticating these items.

Before Robert started posting to this board I had never given game used memorabila much thought and always assumed that if the leading experts said it was so then it was so. Now I wouldn't touch any of that stuff without solid provenance. Robert has done the folks on this board a great service. Now I think he should have been forthcoming about the Ruth autograph, but he hasn't written anything on this board that I have found to be false.

Why are so many people afraid of the truth?

Dan Bretta

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Old 01-09-2005, 12:39 PM
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Posted By: Joe P.

Mr. Andrews, I ditto Mr. PASJD's comment.

My name is Joe Pelaez, and I know nothing about bats, gloves and many other areas of sports memorabilia.
However, I am able to hold my own when it comes to tobacco cards.

With all due respect, what you fail to see sir, is that we are talking about fraud and scams.
We, the unknowledgeable ones, started talking about the existing problems within our own card hobby/investment, and the conversation eventually spread to other areas.

Asides from learning your name, we have found out that your hero has written books.
Also that he has kindly answered all your questions, and has charmed you.

Sir, I'm not saying that your hero is a Con Man, but you are describing some of the stock and trade of a con man.

If they can't get you to like them, they can't Con YOU.

I have met a few in my time.
Most likeable chaps you ever want to meet.

How sure are you that any one of the bats you own may not be what you want it to be?

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  #15  
Old 01-09-2005, 01:25 PM
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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I know VERY LITTLE about game used bats and other items of this nature. However, I think the people who should have to prove their side of the argument would be the person(s) authenticating this stuff! It seems to me that at least Robert KNOWS when these items were issued - it also seems these "authenticators" don't - saying items are from certain years to make them more valuable, when in reality the items were not issued until a few years after the authenticator claims from checking manufaturer's dates!!! I believe if I were to ever buy an item of this nature, I would rather have Robert's opinion on the item than one of these "experts" authenticating the stuff!!!

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  #16  
Old 01-09-2005, 01:26 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Bill, if Mr Bushing answers your emails, then maybe you can ask him to provide you with all his evidence that proves the DiMaggio bat was actually used during the streak. His response to you will speak volumes about your "hero".

Jay

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  #17  
Old 01-09-2005, 02:15 PM
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Posted By: Bill A.

I have decided to move on. I am sure you will all applaud this. My opinion is that this Board prefers to believe Robert simply because he has weaved this web of deception.

When you cut through all of the detail I simply asked Robert to educate and provide his "extensive research" that he claimed to have. He refuses to because he not done any extensive research and therefore has nothing to provide.

I agree authenticators made a mistake when it came to the Ichiro bat, Seaver glove and even the DiMaggio glove and in all cases the folks in charged owned up to it (two of the three cases before the item was sold). At the same time this same team of authenticators has flawlessly put their seal of approval as well as turned down 10s of thousands of pieces of memorabilia and have provided a much safer environment in which we can buy and sell memorabilia. Regardless of what Robert thinks game used memorabilia goes for more money when SCD authentic and PSAdna authenticators authenticate the items. Knowledgable buyers seek this seal of approval.

My comments about unknowledgable are in regards to GU material. This is a vintage card discussion board. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand cards but if someone on a vintage GU equipment discssion forum would state "I just found a Cobb Bat off shoulder with a Hustler back" a Vintage GU equipment collector would nod their head and move on. Not because they are stupid. Only because they know very little about T206 cards.

Anyways sorry to have wasted your time. Take care.

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Old 01-09-2005, 02:51 PM
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Posted By: PASJD

But I personally wish you would stick around and engage in the process. Truth sometimes is best arrived at through an adversarial process, and I found the dialogue interesting and did not think it had been concluded. I only took exception to your presumption that people here are uninformed about memorabilia. How do you know? Maybe people collect both or follow both. In fact if you read through some old threads you will see extensive discussions of memorabilia items, and indeed Robert has taken much heat for bringing up things that were "old news" to some people here.

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Old 01-09-2005, 03:59 PM
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Posted By: Joe P.

Why don't you stick around, and maybe we'll both find out more about this mess?

BTW, what you casually call "mistakes", have cost some collectors some heavy coinage of the realm.

While we're on the topic of "mistakes".
Does anyone know if the right thing was done after the "mistake" was discovered.
Like the Ishiro bat, Seaver glove or others.
Were the collectors reimbursed, or did the authenticators make out like bandits? (no pun intended).

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  #20  
Old 01-09-2005, 11:34 PM
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Posted By: MW


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Old 01-09-2005, 11:40 PM
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Posted By: J Levine

I take exception to a few comments...first off, I personally know several board members who collect both cards and memorabilia and are extremely knowledgeable in both. Second, card collecting, especially vintage, and even more especially, pre-war vintage, does require an extensive amount of knowledge. Yes, some of the people here on the board make it look easy, but take it from me (truly, not an expert), that they have done research, written articles, examined evidence, and generally put the time and money into what they collect card wise. I have met many "new" vintage card collectors at shows who end up giving up the hobby because they don't want to do the research and educate themselves about the cards. As we all know, people make mistakes, including authenticators and grading services. The best way I found to insulate myself from getting hurt is doing the homework myself. That way, I don't blame anyone but myself if I make a mistake or get ripped off.

-Joshua

OT: Yes, many of you know me as a 1st grade teacher, but I was a Physics major in college until my senior year.

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Old 01-10-2005, 12:07 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Bill, don't leave. It just makes you look like a pathetic Bushing puppet sent to stir things up, then running off when the heat got put on you.

I don't really care if Robert really put in "extensive research" or not on an item. He did do some leg work and pointed out facts that are disturbing, to say the least. The burden of "extensive research" and proof lies with Mr Bushing or who ever authenticates an item. Since you seem to be on speaking terms with Mr Bushing, why get him to provide you his "extensive research" on the DiMaggio streak bat so that you can then refute all of Roberts points. I find it odd that an expert would not produce the research he used to authenticate The Streak bat. Provenance is everything and if he can't produce it, then why did he authenticate it?

Can anyone explain why these experts refuse to produce the evidence they have to back up their claims? It doesn't seem to be good business practice.

Jay

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  #23  
Old 01-10-2005, 04:20 AM
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Posted By: PASJD

I would love to hear PSA's explanation for that one. Guess they made a "mistake" the first time. It certainly couldn't be the case that the authenticity of an item depends on who is submitting it.

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  #24  
Old 01-10-2005, 06:12 AM
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Posted By: leon

ALL of this "LOA, COA" crap really makes me glad I don't collect memorabelia. It's hard enough sometimes to tell about cards but this is for the birds. As for Bill and Robert I hope ya'll both stay. Even though this board is primarily for cards this vintage memorabelia stuff falls as ancillary items. One thing I totally hate is the old fox feeding the chickens syndrome. The authenticators really need to do a better job of distancing themselves from the sales of these products. Kind of like the Collectors Universe auctions where they used to (and maybe still do) sell all PSA 9's and PSA 10's. Makes ya wonder......

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Old 01-10-2005, 06:58 AM
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Posted By: PASJD

I could not agree more with Leon both on the card and the memorabilia front. If the "authenticators" had a direct financial interest in the sale of the Dimaggio streak bat, for example, as I believe has been claimed, that really does make one wonder.

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Old 01-10-2005, 10:54 AM
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Posted By: Robert Plancich

I used to become annoyed by these "hit & run" tactics but I have now just learned that this is "standard fare" when addressing the subjects of "experts" and "authenticators".

It's amazing how we collectors are supposed to believe that these individuals are automatically experts and that everything they say is true and/or everything they authenticate is real. They issue these LOA's/COA's and when you ask them for the documentation to substantiate their claim of authenticity you are summarily dismissed. It then becomes the job of the collector to prove that they are wrong. They are the experts and it should be up to them to prove that an item they say is resl, is real; not the other way around.

For example, I am supposed to blindly believe that Dave Bushing can actually tell if those are Ty Cobb's cleat marks on the bat and nobody elses! How does he know they are? What "extensive research" has he done in support of this claim? When is the proof? Then, when you ask him about it he refuses to provide one single shred of evidence in support of his claim. Am I being too unreasonable in my requests? Am I being unfair to Dave Bushing in any way? I have tried contacting him directly and he refuses to answer my emails - why?

I just don't understand.

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Old 01-10-2005, 11:25 AM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Scott

I bought this bat that was supposedly given by Cobb to a fan in 1911 - it also appears to have cleat marks all over it. The writing also looks vintage and in keeping with what a Cobb fan might put on the bat - the collector supposedly wrote notations like this on most items he picked up. He died in the early '60s at a very old age and this bat was picked up at his estate sale by a very reputable collector who I buy equipment from occasionally.

I could never prove that it was really a Cobb "gamer", and it IS a little short, but perhaps I've got something very valuable? Opinions?

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Old 01-10-2005, 04:31 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: MW

Can any of the experts (Bill Andrews?) comment on runscott's bat? What would be the significance of the inscription and cleat marks?

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  #29  
Old 01-10-2005, 05:01 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: dennis

scott, sell the bat to an authenticator for say $30,000. then he can authenticate it,give it the stamp of game used,find a pic of cobb holding a bat,any bat will do,he then can give to an auction house and sell it for lots more to the "high rollers" and you can then get a piece of the huge profits...sounds like a plan?

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  #30  
Old 01-10-2005, 05:07 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Joe P.

Probably hanging upside down and Stabilized with the rest of his boys.

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  #31  
Old 01-10-2005, 07:10 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Scott

But the email address he posted in this thread is invalid. I really need to know - my grandmother needs a pancreas transplant...God bless.

Seriously, I do own the above bat and it is exactly as described.

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  #32  
Old 01-10-2005, 07:47 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: PASJD

I think it is not only a game-used Ty Cobb bat (or certainly could become one in the hands of the appropriate auction house) but also an ultra rare decal bat, which decal can still be seen in the grain marks and as can easily be seen by comparison to a photo of a decal bat except perhaps by unsophisticated members of this group who only know cards and are dupes for Robert's propaganda. I also think it was the bat Cobb used to get the hit that put him on base when he broke the stolen base record, that is obvious from the distinctive pattern of the cleat marks and from carbon-dating by an independent expert.

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  #33  
Old 01-10-2005, 09:48 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Robert Plancich

Email me and I will give you the contact information of several people that you can contact to find out about this bat.

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  #34  
Old 01-10-2005, 11:25 PM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Joe K.

Hi Scott- Does the bat have any label or any other visible markings on barrel or end of knob? What is the length? I won't pretend to be able to authenticate it(like some) but let's start by first seeing if it could even be a 1911 pro model. Also who supposedly wrote the inscription...the collector, the fan or Cobb? Just wondering because it looks like it is written with a type of bmarker they didn't have in 1911.

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Old 01-11-2005, 05:59 AM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Scott

I'll email you with more info - it is definitely vintage ink. It's like the ink you actually dip a pen into. Also, I'm expecting the 1911-15 bat in the mail today, so I'll update you on that also.

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  #36  
Old 01-11-2005, 08:27 AM
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Default Plancich....Two Requests

Posted By: Scott

This one doesn't have the cleat marks that Cobb gamers are famous for, but other than that I think we might have a winner!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50125&item=5155421367&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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  #37  
Old 01-11-2005, 08:40 AM
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Posted By: PASJD

My understanding from "Batman" as Joe P. calls him is that there was a "find" of game-used Ty Cobb bats a few years back in, of all places, the "rafters of an old barn." This piece could well be from that find. Too bad the owner "oiled" and "repaired" it or is "stabilization" (or should we say "stableization" in this case as we are dealing with an old barn) an accepted practice in the sale of game-used bats?

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  #38  
Old 01-11-2005, 12:23 PM
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Posted By: Joe K.

If we ignore the story and stop wishing for miracles, then JF Hillerich Son 40 "TC" is a real nice store model bat and a very nice collectable, especially at 36in. Lets hope whoever gets it will just appreciate it for what it is, not for what it could be (but never proven). I wouldn't mine pulling a 40 TC out of the rafters of my barn (if i had one) gamer or not.

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  #39  
Old 01-11-2005, 12:51 PM
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Posted By: Joe P.

Well done PASJD.

There is a correlation between Stabilization and Stableization.
They both have the aroma of the sweet smell of success.

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