Dots Miller Big Glove Run COMPLETE

[ullmandds]

I do believe my dots miller w/big glove tobacco/caramel/bread run...is finally complete. It's taken 15+ years...and without help I never could have finished it.

I'd especially like to thank DJ (e92 nadja) , Mac (T216 mild and sweet) and Steve (T216 VE) for helping me with 3 of the toughest Millers...numerous others for constantly pointing out dotses in auctions and offering up examples to gauge my needs.

Here is a checklist of my run along with rough population estimates. It's interesting to note the scarcity of more than 1/2 of these issues...esp compared to production #'s of T206 esp rare backs.

e90-1 75
e90-1(sunset) 4
e92 blankback 1 I know of atleast 3
e92 crofts candy: 10 total all colors no differentiation in most cases
e92 crofts candy black
e92 crofts candy blue
e92 crofts candy red i know of 3 I think
e92 crofts cocoa 15
e92 nadja 2
e101 23
e102 10
e105 5
e106 22
d303 3
d303/t216 blank back scrap thingy 2
T216 many undifferentiated regarding backs 7 total all backs
t216 Kotton NGO
t216 Kotton extra mild
t216 Kotton mild and sweet
t216 mono 2
t216 virginia extra 1...I've seen another

I suppose now i'll try to upgrade a few.

Does anyone know of any other T/D/E runs that are complete???

[skelly423]

Spectacular. Congratulations on achieving the near-impossible

[Casey2296]

Unbelievable Pete, congratulations on an incredible run.

[mrreality68]

very cool congrats

[brianp-beme]

Nice Pete, I have been seeing some of these cards from you for years. Was the T216 Mild and Sweet the last one to complete your run?

Brian

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Nice Pete, I have been seeing some of these cards from you for years. Was the T216 Mild and Sweet the last one to complete your run?

Brian

yup!

[mordecaibrown1]

Outstanding run!!! Congrats!!!!

[Stonepony]

Fantastic run!!

[jingram058]

Congratulations on an incredible collecting achievement! Dots Miller is one of favorite ball players; such an interesting and tragic story. Out of all of them, I particularly like the Mello-Mint back. Just so cool!

[vintagetoppsguy]

That's awesome. Congrats!

[brass_rat]

Congrats again, Pete! Such an awesome run and a blazing background.

Steve

[gabrinus]

Awesome Pete!!...Jerry

[x2drich2000]

Pete, awesome job! Glad to see you finally got this complete.

[nineunder71]

Well done sir!!

And thanks for sharing

[peterb69]

Well done

[Pat R]

Nice Pete, Congrats.

[brass_rat]

So Pete, how do you feel? Are you excited, or are you feeling a sense of loss because the chase is gone?

[Leon]

That's great. Congrats Pete!

.

[BobC]

Congrats Pete, fantastic run!

[familytoad]

The sun sets on one of the coolest run collections extant!
Being a Kraken collector, I think it’s incredibly interesting how the non-Sunset pose is unique to the run, but the sunset is tough.

Congratulations Pete! Nice work!!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

So Pete, how do you feel? Are you excited, or are you feeling a sense of loss because the chase is gone?

totally agree Brian...the sunset/non in e90-1 certainly adds intrigue!

Steve...I'm excited...i'm not a set collector...I've completed a handful of pre war sets...so I can appreciate the feeling of completing something. But for the most part I consider my collection a work in progress. So it feels good to close the book on this part of my collection!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by familytoad

The sun sets on one of the coolest run collections extant!
Being a Kraken collector, I think it’s incredibly interesting how the non-Sunset pose is unique to the run, but the sunset is tough.

Congratulations Pete! Nice work!!

Great point, and the sunsets on the rest are not all the same either it seems. Also, the player's shadow is missing on the card with no sunset, and the shadow varies from card to card also it seems.

And something else I just realized and never thought of before while looking at Pete's fantastic run. Since the sunset appears to be behind the player image, shouldn't the shadow be coming from Dots towards the viewer of the card, instead of running from the left to the right on the card? Interesting.

[Baseball Rarities]

Congratulations. That is really an impressive run.

[michael3322]

Really impressive. Congratulations.

Just curious: Why did you embark on this challenge? Was it something specific about Dots or the card run?

Also, curious to hear what people think of the conflict between the Wikipedia entry and the SABR entry for Dots with regards to his name.

Wikipedia entry:

In the years since his death (beginning at least as early as a 1935 story penned by one-time Phillies teammate Stan Baumgartner), Miller's nickname has frequently been attributed to a simple misinterpretation of teammate Honus Wagner's heavily accented response, "That's Miller." However, on May 12, 1909, the first day the name "Dots Miller" appeared in a Pittsburgh newspaper, it was made abundantly clear that this was a childhood nickname, stemming from Miller's own German ancestry, and accent.

SABR entry:

"When Honus Wagner was late reporting to spring training in 1909, Miller received his first extended opportunity to display his talents to Fred Clarke and the rest of the Pirates. The 22-year-old shortstop made all the plays, and soon the other Pirates began calling him “Hans,” or “Hans No. 2.” After Hans No. 1 finally arrived in camp, a reporter asked him, “Who’s the new kid?” Wagner replied, “That’s Miller.” The reporter, misunderstanding, listed the young infielder as Dots Miller. Henceforth John Bernard Miller, sometimes known as Jack, sometimes Barney, was now and forever known as “Dots.” In an era of colorful nicknames, Miller had one of the best, acquired quite by accident."

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Does anyone know of any other T/D/E runs that are complete???

I think you probably have the longest run for ecards with the t and d's included. I think Brian had a thread that listed the subjects that had the most possible examples across all types.

I have a McGraw VE and picked up a blank T216 and picked up a few more and sort of stopped looking. Anyone going for one would need the board's help from each back specialist. Congrats

[fkm_bky]

Phenomenal run Pete! Congratulations!

Bill

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I think you probably have the longest run for ecards with the t and d's included. I think Brian had a thread that listed the subjects that had the most possible examples across all types.

I have a McGraw VE and picked up a blank T216 and picked up a few more and sort of stopped looking. Anyone going for one would need the board's help from each back specialist. Congrats

id like to see that blank backed mcgraw compared to the VE. There are a lot of possible mcgraws I bet! I know Jennings and Chase have some of the greatest possible...along with Dots I believe?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by michael3322

Really impressive. Congratulations.

Just curious: Why did you embark on this challenge? Was it something specific about Dots or the card run?

Also, curious to hear what people think of the conflict between the Wikipedia entry and the SABR entry for Dots with regards to his name.

Wikipedia entry:

In the years since his death (beginning at least as early as a 1935 story penned by one-time Phillies teammate Stan Baumgartner), Miller's nickname has frequently been attributed to a simple misinterpretation of teammate Honus Wagner's heavily accented response, "That's Miller." However, on May 12, 1909, the first day the name "Dots Miller" appeared in a Pittsburgh newspaper, it was made abundantly clear that this was a childhood nickname, stemming from Miller's own German ancestry, and accent.

SABR entry:

"When Honus Wagner was late reporting to spring training in 1909, Miller received his first extended opportunity to display his talents to Fred Clarke and the rest of the Pirates. The 22-year-old shortstop made all the plays, and soon the other Pirates began calling him “Hans,” or “Hans No. 2.” After Hans No. 1 finally arrived in camp, a reporter asked him, “Who’s the new kid?” Wagner replied, “That’s Miller.” The reporter, misunderstanding, listed the young infielder as Dots Miller. Henceforth John Bernard Miller, sometimes known as Jack, sometimes Barney, was now and forever known as “Dots.” In an era of colorful nicknames, Miller had one of the best, acquired quite by accident."

The first one I picked up was the tough E102...as I was trying to collect rarities within sets. I kinda fell in love with the pose...love the ridiculous multilobular glove. That led to another...and another...and a run was born!

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

id like to see that blank backed mcgraw compared to the VE. There are a lot of possible mcgraws I bet! I know Jennings and Chase have some of the greatest possible...along with Dots I believe?

I bought a new laptop. I have the scans on my old laptop and will see if I can post some scans from it. I haven't been able to get my new laptop to work with my old scanner. I have posted the cards before and will see if I can find the thread. I was told the blank was a T216, I don't know how it's possible to tell. I think it was from a Goodwin auction about 10-12 years ago.

Edit- here is Brian's thread. We discussed the Mcgraw blank, and I posted it in the thread (DJ's thread)

www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=207332

[z28jd]

I was the first one to uncover this fact after I bought postcards he was sending his family and signing them Dots from Spring Training in 1911. I figured he wouldn't be calling himself "Dots" to family members if it was a nickname given to him recently by the media. From there I searched newspapers in 1909 until the first mention I could find:

Miller got the nickname “Dots” as a small child due to his thick German accent. He would say “That’s mine” when he grabbed things, but the “That’s” came out as “Dots”. His teammates in Pittsburgh learned of the nickname during his first trip to Philadelphia as a player, when all of his friends and family showed up from Kearny NJ. A friend relayed the story to the Pittsburgh media and from then on it stuck, though they often called him Jack Miller in Pittsburgh and Dots was used more often for his hometown papers.

Originally Posted by michael3322

Really impressive. Congratulations.

Just curious: Why did you embark on this challenge? Was it something specific about Dots or the card run?

Also, curious to hear what people think of the conflict between the Wikipedia entry and the SABR entry for Dots with regards to his name.

Wikipedia entry:

In the years since his death (beginning at least as early as a 1935 story penned by one-time Phillies teammate Stan Baumgartner), Miller's nickname has frequently been attributed to a simple misinterpretation of teammate Honus Wagner's heavily accented response, "That's Miller." However, on May 12, 1909, the first day the name "Dots Miller" appeared in a Pittsburgh newspaper, it was made abundantly clear that this was a childhood nickname, stemming from Miller's own German ancestry, and accent.

SABR entry:

"When Honus Wagner was late reporting to spring training in 1909, Miller received his first extended opportunity to display his talents to Fred Clarke and the rest of the Pirates. The 22-year-old shortstop made all the plays, and soon the other Pirates began calling him “Hans,” or “Hans No. 2.” After Hans No. 1 finally arrived in camp, a reporter asked him, “Who’s the new kid?” Wagner replied, “That’s Miller.” The reporter, misunderstanding, listed the young infielder as Dots Miller. Henceforth John Bernard Miller, sometimes known as Jack, sometimes Barney, was now and forever known as “Dots.” In an era of colorful nicknames, Miller had one of the best, acquired quite by accident."

[z28jd]

For people asking about the shadow. The photo of Miller there is from an actual photo and there's shocking news attached to it. The big glove was an artistic addition

[z28jd]

Congrats on the complete run, Pete. Dots would be proud. He came to me in a dream and said he would be proud of me when I get his Voskamps card, so hopefully I'll join you in that company some day

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I think you probably have the longest run for ecards with the t and d's included. I think Brian had a thread that listed the subjects that had the most possible examples across all types.

I have a McGraw VE and picked up a blank T216 and picked up a few more and sort of stopped looking. Anyone going for one would need the board's help from each back specialist. Congrats

I think you might be referring to this post (https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=271453) where Brian provided a rough outline for possible runs without counting the nuances each particular set. While no where near as impressive as Pete's, the closest I am to a complete run is on the Davis. I'm still missing Cocoa and black Croft, if it exists.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I think you might be referring to this post (https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=271453) where Brian provided a rough outline for possible runs without counting the nuances each particular set. While no where near as impressive as Pete's, the closest I am to a complete run is on the Davis. I'm still missing Cocoa and black Croft, if it exists.

That was a good one, too, DJ. I'm not surprised to see Lobert and Bescher up there. I should go for those, as I already have a few from a few sets.

[Rhotchkiss]

Pete, that is F-ing amazing! Congrats. Hugely difficult accomplishment

I mean a Virginia extra and red Crofts (not to mention a blank and a scrap)!

Very cool to see all 3 Crofts together

[Clutch-Hitter]

Wow, fantastic run!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by z28jd

For people asking about the shadow. The photo of Miller there is from an actual photo and there's shocking news attached to it. The big glove was an artistic addition

I wasn't really asking about the shadow, just noticed the oddity of it with the position of the sunset background. And based on that photo, the sunset in the background was an artistic addition as well. LOL Still a great image though, and great run for Pete.

[FrankWakefield]

Absolutely impressive. Crofts, and more Crofts, Nadja, E102, Kotton, Mino, Mello-Mint, Peoples Virginia Extra, American Caramel...

Best aspect, you got them all. Next best aspect, you shared them in a picture.

Thanks!!!

[MINES_MINT]

That's awesome Pete, congratulations. Its always a treat to see a back run completed. Thank you for sharing.

[michael3322]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I was the first one to uncover this fact after I bought postcards he was sending his family and signing them Dots from Spring Training in 1911. I figured he wouldn't be calling himself "Dots" to family members if it was a nickname given to him recently by the media. From there I searched newspapers in 1909 until the first mention I could find:

Miller got the nickname “Dots” as a small child due to his thick German accent. He would say “That’s mine” when he grabbed things, but the “That’s” came out as “Dots”. His teammates in Pittsburgh learned of the nickname during his first trip to Philadelphia as a player, when all of his friends and family showed up from Kearny NJ. A friend relayed the story to the Pittsburgh media and from then on it stuck, though they often called him Jack Miller in Pittsburgh and Dots was used more often for his hometown papers.

That's incredible. Well done!

[brianp-beme]

Then there is always this thread with a fuller list to complete the trifecta:

https://net54baseball.com/showthread...highlight=E101

Brian

[Baseballcrazy62]

Never saw anything quite like that. Super impressive!

[edhans]

Congrats on the spectacular run, Pete. Curious about your population estimates. Do you mean the total population known, graded and raw? Surely there are more than 75 and 4 E90-1s.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by edhans

Congrats on the spectacular run, Pete. Curious about your population estimates. Do you mean the total population known, graded and raw? Surely there are more than 75 and 4 E90-1s.

thanks folks...that original photo the dots image came from makes his glove look miniature...I like the artistically embellished big glove much better!!!!!

Ed...this is the PSA/SGC combined pops...which are far from accurate...just to get a rough idea...seeing as some people like pops!!!!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I bought a new laptop. I have the scans on my old laptop and will see if I can post some scans from it. I haven't been able to get my new laptop to work with my old scanner. I have posted the cards before and will see if I can find the thread. I was told the blank was a T216, I don't know how it's possible to tell. I think it was from a Goodwin auction about 10-12 years ago.

Edit- here is Brian's thread. We discussed the Mcgraw blank, and I posted it in the thread (DJ's thread)

www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=207332

your mcgraw BB has huge top/bottom borders...I love it!!!!! I wish more was known about this find that I believe Bill "Mr Disney" Goodwin brought to market.

[t206fanatic]

congrats, amazing accomplishment!

[BioCRN]

Close, but not quite...

You still need to locate the Purple Wave Diamond Shimmer Gold Refractor Laundry Tag Patch Relic Auto. Good luck.

[WillowGrove]

Big congrats Pete! Really cool to see you complete what you set out to do.

[MuncieNolePAZ]

Incredible. Congrats!

Chad

[Yoda]

Pete, a near impossible accomplishment. Well-done! But now it's time to start on the upgrades. Maybe not.