Was Casey Stengel a good manager?

[Mark17]

Of course, if we say Stengel was a good manager for winning with the Yankees, does that imply Houk and Berra were also good managers?

The Yankees won 4 consecutive pennants and 2 more WS after Stengel was fired. And Berra also won a pennant in 1973.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Of course, if we say Stengel was a good manager for winning with the Yankees, does that imply Houk and Berra were also good managers?

The Yankees won 4 consecutive pennants and 2 more WS after Stengel was fired. And Berra also won a [pennant in 1973.

Houk didn't win anything during his second stint after replacing Johnny Keane.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Houk didn't win anything during his second stint after replacing Johnny Keane.

Neither did Stengel in his next gig. Both had last place teams to work with.

The Yankees got old very quickly. Maybe Keane (1964 WS winner) having a dismal year with the Yankees in 1965 is good evidence of their talent decline.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Neither did Stengel in his next gig. Both had last place teams to work with.

The Yankees got old very quickly. Maybe Keane (1964 WS winner) having a dismal year with the Yankees in 1965 is good evidence of their talent decline.

Yeah 64 was really the last hurrah for those great teams. All fell apart.

[profholt82]

The thing is, as talented as those Yankees teams of the 50s were, it's insulting to think that anyone could have managed them to that level of success. His system of platooning position players and managing the pitchers and bullpen was fairly unique in that era, and he maximized the performance out of all that talent. I realize he didn't have much success outside of his Yankees tenor, but he was the kind of manager who could get the best out of talented players. And I'll be incredibly surprised if any other manager ever matches his level of success. 7 WS wins, and 5 in a row. I mean, DiMaggio's hitting streak might be more attainable.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by profholt82

And I'll be incredibly surprised if any other manager ever matches his level of success. 7 WS wins, and 5 in a row. I mean, DiMaggio's hitting streak might be more attainable.

From 1929 through 1944, Joe McCarthy won 9 pennants and 7 World Series, and in the other years he finished second. 16 straight years of finishing either first or second. I'd say McCarthy had a more successful managerial career than Stengel, both overall and during their peak years.

[profholt82]

*double post

[profholt82]

Originally Posted by Mark17

From 1929 through 1944, Joe McCarthy won 9 pennants and 7 World Series, and in the other years he finished second. 16 straight years of finishing either first or second. I'd say McCarthy had a more successful managerial career than Stengel, both overall and during their peak years.

Well, yeah, but I meant going forward. No one's come close to Stengel in 60 years now, and I don't see that changing. I never said he was the greatest manager of all time or anything, and that's such a subjective thing anyway, but as far as sustained excellence like that, I think it will be nearly impossible to duplicate.

[John1941]

I think it's clear that the Yankees fell apart when Weiss and Stengel were fired after 1960. They did a great job of keeping the Yankees young by switching out older players for younger players, and not overworking their pitchers. Plus they had an incredible scouting system. The new management just was not on the same level.