What is the point of the "Buyer's Premium"?

[Peter_Spaeth]

OK. I guess for whatever reason I just don't think that way, to me a bid is just a number that generates another number.

[G1911]

It is easer, mentally, to divide a separate fee as 'the cost of doing business' and not really calculate it as part of the cost you are paying for X item. Basically every functioning business knows this. There is a reason my LCS does not raise their price 10.25% on every item, and then put a sign on the door that sales tax is included in the listed price. Separating it as much as possible makes it easier for people to not have to think about, or if they do, to account it differently, even if it's not really rational to do so. I would imagine, though do not know how to prove, this effect is magnified when you've got a minute or two to decide whether to go another bid up. I also suspect, based on the surprisingly large number of jokes in the hobby about drunk bidding, that many are not exactly thinking clearly while inputting their bids on auction night .

Sometimes, I wish man lived to the Aristotelian. For good and for bad, we simply do not. While I don't have a whole lot of personal sympathy for people who don't read the T&C's they signed up for, it does not change what the auction house is doing and why this complication exists in the form that it does. It's a psychological tactic to make a larger number of buyers mentally divorce the fee from their bid, and also to their consignors to not seem like they are giving up X% of the bid, by adding this additional layer. There is a reason this is the norm, and it isn't random chance.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So it doesn't fool you, but you're sure it fools others?

1 in 6 people have an IQ below 85. That is a significant handicap when it comes to processing even simple information such as this. I don't think the AH's are intentionally on a mission to "target" those less capable, but they are certainly targeting those less capable. It is a deceptive tactic that results in hidden fees and hammer prices that were higher than expected for some, whether intentional or not. However, it allows them to operate above board (and to justify it to themselves) because they can just point to their fee structure as it is plainly spelled out for everyone to see. For most buyers, it's not much of an issue.

I think one could make an argument that it's not actually a deceptive tactic if they indeed charged 20% of the hammer price for sold items. But that's not actually the case. Nobody charges 20%. It's usually between 10 to 15% and the consignor gets some portion of the BP back. It's pretty difficult to argue that it is not intended to deceive with that being the case.

[Snapolit1]

It's no secret (and no "trick") that they are charging a buyer's commission. Having said that, I like the AHs that remind you at the time of bidding very clearly that you are bidding X, but the cost including commission will be Y. A nice reminder in the heat of battle.

As someone said above, for me it's about a 30% bump for commission, taxes and shipping usually.

[Snapolit1]

I could be wrong, but I suspect the practice of an auction house adding a buyer's charge onto the hammer prices of an auction is probably about 2000 years old.

625 AD: Yes, you just bought two lambs for six bushels of hay . . . and now please give something to the auctioneer for making the sale happen.

[Exhibitman]

Peter, I have little doubt that a small but significant minority of bidders forget about the BP, taxes, and gouge-level shipping (excepting from the latter the AHS who have adopted flat-rate shipping), especially when making that last bid in the dead of night. I made a late bid in REA the other night and won the card, and I knew but did not really appreciate that my $160 bid became a $202 bill. Had the bid shown as $192 instead of $160 it might have given me pause.

[Ray Van]

I find it interesting that some people were so quick to run to the defense of auction houses, perceiving some sort of accusation on the part of the OP which in fact wasn't there at all. The OP simply asked a logical question that many of us have asked ourselves, and even posited the rationale for it.

I agree the practice seems to be more on the psychological side than anything. Many will not factor the buyer's premium into the price we pay, then accept it if we are the high bidder. Doesn't make it ideal, but we accept it. And since most auction houses charge it, no one is going to drop it. Plus they make more money that way.

Hypothetically asking "how would AH's make money otherwise" is missing the point. Most charge consignment fees so they already make money there. They could up the consignment fees to offset dropping the buyer's premium but that would be bad for business.

I see a parallel to Las Vegas hotels charging an additional $50 a night in "resort fees" (on top of the room rate) for use of wifi and the gym that nobody uses - smart shoppers include this in the cost of a night's stay, while others that didn't check the fine print are upset at the extra charges upon checkout.

It is what it is. An established business practice designed the make the business more money, simple as that.

I also appreciate eBay's policy of not charging a BP (but if I was made CEO tomorrow you can bet I'd implement it and watch the stock price rise).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

The history of BP is that it was started by Sotheby's and Christie's to give them a competitive edge in obtaining consignments. They could tell the consignor "look Auction A is charging you 40% but we're only charging you 25%" of course neglecting to explain BP.

Since it has become industry standard we're basically forced into charging it or trying to explain (and losing a lot of consignments) to consignors that paying 30% commission is no different than paying 10% with a 20% BP. It's a shell game, plain and simple, but one that you're basically stuck playing at this point.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Peter, I have little doubt that a small but significant minority of bidders forget about the BP, taxes, and gouge-level shipping (excepting from the latter the AHS who have adopted flat-rate shipping), especially when making that last bid in the dead of night. I made a late bid in REA the other night and won the card, and I knew but did not really appreciate that my $160 bid became a $202 bill. Had the bid shown as $192 instead of $160 it might have given me pause.

If we were all perfect decision makers the world would look a lot different. No car accidents . . . no malpractice claims. . . . nobody would spend more money that they have . . . . nobody would marry a creepy loser . . . . the federal reserve wouldn't need to raise by another .75 basis points . . .

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

If we were all perfect decision makers the world would look a lot different. ...nobody would marry a creepy loser

But, then how are card collectors supposed to have families?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The history of BP is that it was started by Sotheby's and Christie's to give them a competitive edge in obtaining consignments. They could tell the consignor "look Auction A is charging you 40% but we're only charging you 25%" of course neglecting to explain BP.

Since it has become industry standard we're basically forced into charging it or trying to explain (and losing a lot of consignments) to consignors that paying 30% commission is no different than paying 10% with a 20% BP. It's a shell game, plain and simple, but one that you're basically stuck playing at this point.

Again, it worked because Americans suck at algebra.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's a shell game, plain and simple, but one that you're basically stuck playing at this point.

Thanks for being willing to admit it, even if others seem less convinced on this point.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by raulus

Thanks for being willing to admit it, even if others seem less convinced on this point.

It's literally just moving the money we collect from one party to another. Doesn't seem any rational way to deny it.

[Orioles1954]

.

[Orioles1954]

In the heat of competition many bidders, the majority of whom are intelligent and successful people, lose a sense of boundaries and proportion.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by exhibitman

peter, i have little doubt that a small but significant minority of bidders forget about the bp, taxes, and gouge-level shipping (excepting from the latter the ahs who have adopted flat-rate shipping), especially when making that last bid in the dead of night. I made a late bid in rea the other night and won the card, and i knew but did not really appreciate that my $160 bid became a $202 bill. Had the bid shown as $192 instead of $160 it might have given me pause.

guilty!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ray Van

I find it interesting that some people were so quick to run to the defense of auction houses, perceiving some sort of accusation on the part of the OP which in fact wasn't there at all. The OP simply asked a logical question that many of us have asked ourselves, and even posited the rationale for it.

I agree the practice seems to be more on the psychological side than anything. Many will not factor the buyer's premium into the price we pay, then accept it if we are the high bidder. Doesn't make it ideal, but we accept it. And since most auction houses charge it, no one is going to drop it. Plus they make more money that way.

Hypothetically asking "how would AH's make money otherwise" is missing the point. Most charge consignment fees so they already make money there. They could up the consignment fees to offset dropping the buyer's premium but that would be bad for business.

I see a parallel to Las Vegas hotels charging an additional $50 a night in "resort fees" (on top of the room rate) for use of wifi and the gym that nobody uses - smart shoppers include this in the cost of a night's stay, while others that didn't check the fine print are upset at the extra charges upon checkout.

It is what it is. An established business practice designed the make the business more money, simple as that.

I also appreciate eBay's policy of not charging a BP (but if I was made CEO tomorrow you can bet I'd implement it and watch the stock price rise).

The OP called it a psychological trick by AHs hoping to get more from an ignorant buyer. That's not an accusation?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

It's literally just moving the money we collect from one party to another. Doesn't seem any rational way to deny it.

Exactly!

For those who aren’t fans, I think the bigger issue is that we want to pay less for our items. And the premium means that we’re paying more, not less. It’s less about the premium and more just complaining that we have to pay so much period, and the premium happens to be a convenient scapegoat.

And I guess those who defend it want to think the best of their fellow men, their motives and approach to conducting business. And I certainly applaud their approach.

My own feeling is I’ve given up caring. It’s there, and it’s there for a reason, some of which are benign, some less so, and the only way around it is to opt out of bidding in these auctions altogether. Since all of the nicest stuff ends up in these auctions, that’s a fairly poor option. I’m not convinced that ascribing pejorative motives to the auction houses helps me to feel any better about it, although maybe there’s some cathartic effect to expressing a disdain for it in general.

[Johnny630]

I've noticed over the years that card shows are becoming less and less filled with Nrmt or Better Cards. Those all go to auction houses. If they are at shows they're asking auction house prices those of which do not sell at the shows. Several dealer friends of mine told me last year that tried selling their higher-end stuff at shows to no avail. Sent to a major auction house, REA, and did better than 25% over their asking price at shows, it's a big divergence. Big money and big egos show up at MA's !!

[puckpaul]

Well, i just shopped around to sell some minor art pieces (mom cleaning out our old house) and it’s a whole different game there…27.5% buyers premium and 10% sellers commission (this can be reduced with some negotiation AND a big enough amount of material which isn’t small). So, the card AHs seem cheap now!

[Golfcollector]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

There's been some great collections built on good whiskey and poor decisions on auction night...

100% Truth!

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by Snowman

1 in 6 people have an IQ below 85. That is a significant handicap when it comes to processing even simple information such as this. I don't think the AH's are intentionally on a mission to "target" those less capable, but they are certainly targeting those less capable. It is a deceptive tactic that results in hidden fees and hammer prices that were higher than expected for some, whether intentional or not. However, it allows them to operate above board (and to justify it to themselves) because they can just point to their fee structure as it is plainly spelled out for everyone to see. For most buyers, it's not much of an issue.

I think one could make an argument that it's not actually a deceptive tactic if they indeed charged 20% of the hammer price for sold items. But that's not actually the case. Nobody charges 20%. It's usually between 10 to 15% and the consignor gets some portion of the BP back. It's pretty difficult to argue that it is not intended to deceive with that being the case.

I can't recount for you how many people I have spoken to at shows who were considering selling their cards and ended up consigning them because the auction house employee(s) explained that "the seller isn't paying anything" to have the auction house sell their card - "all the fees are paid by the bidders - they (the seller) will receive 100% of the hammer price". What isn't said is that Hammer price DOES NOT equal fair market value (most of the time - see many comments above about bidders backing out the BP in their bidding calculations and the bidders who are "fooled" by the BP). The irony and frustration for me is for the right higher-end cards, I will pay 80% of fair market value on the spot!
I have said it many times before, it makes no sense to me why so many cards with easily and readily established market values are given to auction houses. The cards that make the most sense to me for auction are cards where demand is super strong and supply is not (think super high end (or low pop) cards of guys like Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Gehrig, Wagner, etc.)

In fact there is a very real risk involved in selling cards with easily established market values. A recent case in point - I was communicating with a guy looking to sell a 1952 Topps PSA 3.5 Mantle. I offered to take it on private consignment, estimating a selling price of $110K and asking for a 7.5% commission upon the sale of the card. He explained he had that much into it, thought it was worth a lot more and touted what he believed was a certainty that he would at least recoup his investment going to a very well respected, well known auction house. The card happened to sell at auction for $87K less than 3 weeks after we spoke. He negotiated a piece of the BP back, but will still see less than $80K from the sale. I believe his card sold under market. Why? There happened to be another Mantle a grade apart in the same auction? Maybe a few guys missed the auction who would have been potential buyers? Maybe the market is softening just a bit? A bunch of other maybe's? What isn't advertised alongside the all too familiar "get record prices auction ads" is that MOST cards that are auctioned do not sell for record prices!

I have said it ad nauseum - An auction house is more times than not - NOT the best place to sell a card.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Well, i just shopped around to sell some minor art pieces (mom cleaning out our old house) and it’s a whole different game there…27.5% buyers premium and 10% sellers commission (this can be reduced with some negotiation AND a big enough amount of material which isn’t small). So, the card AHs seem cheap now!

You don't even want to look at general estate rates. often 40% plus 15% AND they sock you with assorted fees, labor, transportation, photography, advertising etc... Even when I was in auction school I couldn't figure out why you would have to add fees on top of your rates. Again it's a shell game.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by hcv123

I can't recount for you how many people I have spoken to at shows who were considering selling their cards and ended up consigning them because the auction house employee(s) explained that "the seller isn't paying anything" to have the auction house sell their card - "all the fees are paid by the bidders - they (the seller) will receive 100% of the hammer price". What isn't said is that Hammer price DOES NOT equal fair market value (most of the time - see many comments above about bidders backing out the BP in their bidding calculations and the bidders who are "fooled" by the BP). The irony and frustration for me is for the right higher-end cards, I will pay 80% of fair market value on the spot!
I have said it many times before, it makes no sense to me why so many cards with easily and readily established market values are given to auction houses. The cards that make the most sense to me for auction are cards where demand is super strong and supply is not (think super high end (or low pop) cards of guys like Ruth, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Robinson, Gehrig, Wagner, etc.)

In fact there is a very real risk involved in selling cards with easily established market values. A recent case in point - I was communicating with a guy looking to sell a 1952 Topps PSA 3.5 Mantle. I offered to take it on private consignment, estimating a selling price of $110K and asking for a 7.5% commission upon the sale of the card. He explained he had that much into it, thought it was worth a lot more and touted what he believed was a certainty that he would at least recoup his investment going to a very well respected, well known auction house. The card happened to sell at auction for $87K less than 3 weeks after we spoke. He negotiated a piece of the BP back, but will still see less than $80K from the sale. I believe his card sold under market. Why? There happened to be another Mantle a grade apart in the same auction? Maybe a few guys missed the auction who would have been potential buyers? Maybe the market is softening just a bit? A bunch of other maybe's? What isn't advertised alongside the all too familiar "get record prices auction ads" is that MOST cards that are auctioned do not sell for record prices!

I have said it ad nauseum - An auction house is more times than not - NOT the best place to sell a card.

Would seem to beg the question why didn't you pick said Mantle up at auction? If we're giving away cards at rates you can profit on, take advantage of us!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by hcv123

In fact there is a very real risk involved in selling cards with easily established market values. A recent case in point - I was communicating with a guy looking to sell a 1952 Topps PSA 3.5 Mantle. I offered to take it on private consignment, estimating a selling price of $110K and asking for a 7.5% commission upon the sale of the card. He explained he had that much into it, thought it was worth a lot more and touted what he believed was a certainty that he would at least recoup his investment going to a very well respected, well known auction house. The card happened to sell at auction for $87K less than 3 weeks after we spoke. He negotiated a piece of the BP back, but will still see less than $80K from the sale.

I have said it ad nauseum - An auction house is more times than not - NOT the best place to sell a card.

Anyone else want to see this included as a testimonial for an auction house!!??

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The OP called it a psychological trick by AHs hoping to get more from an ignorant buyer. That's not an accusation?

“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is."

And the buyers premium is to pay the AH for their services.
.
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

OK. I guess for whatever reason I just don't think that way, to me a bid is just a number that generates another number.

Whenever I bid I think of the total number, with tax and shipping, I am paying. In most of the big auctions I just multiply by 1. 28.5 and I get my item cost if I win. I never only think of my actual bid as what I am paying ... I might have done that decades ago, erroneously, but not anymore...
.

[MikeGarcia]

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You don't even want to look at general estate rates. often 40% plus 15% AND they sock you with assorted fees, labor, transportation, photography, advertising etc... Even when I was in auction school I couldn't figure out why you would have to add fees on top of your rates. Again it's a shell game.

Yeah, they “waived” the $50/piece photography and listing fees and other fees. I did tell them i did a lot of sports memorabilia auctions and getting 40% of the value seemed awfully high to me.

[Snapolit1]

As explained on the board a gazillion times, most AHs will waive a sellers commission for a decent piece. So they have to make their nut somewhere. And that’s called the buyers commission. I know a bunch of good dudes who run AHs, and none of them are running not for profit charities.

Allowing the AH to get a piece of the selling price also serves a smart economic function of incentivizing them to promote. If it was just “hey, pay me $200 if I sell your item, we’ll that wouldn’t get the juices flowing from the promotional side of things.

[Exhibitman]

My wife has an expression for it (which she may have taken from someone else): scam culture. Most people in this country are constantly on the grift, always looking for an advantage, and the more unfair the better.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

As explained on the board a gazillion times, most AHs will waive a sellers commission for a decent piece. So they have to make their nut somewhere. And that’s called the buyers commission. I know a bunch of good dudes who run AHs, and none of them are running not for profit charities.

Allowing the AH to get a piece of the selling price also serves a smart economic function of incentivizing them to promote. If it was just “hey, pay me $200 if I sell your item, we’ll that wouldn’t get the juices flowing from the promotional side of things.

I dont think anyone believes the AHs shouldn’t charge for what they do. Of course they need to! It’s always a question of how much and are you getting what you pay for as a consignor. I have been very happy as a consignor thus far, notwithstanding that an auction is always somewhat risky for any one item at any time. If it’s a big enough item you can use an AH that allows a reserve (like on that Mantle card described above, which is just one anecdote and I dont think represents the whole experience).

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The OP called it a psychological trick by AHs hoping to get more from an ignorant buyer. That's not an accusation?

I think this explains why a lot of people have a problem with the BP or at least those that are surprised when it's added on their invoice.

[Keith H. Thompson]

I've been around a long time and have won items in many auctions including a 5K item in the last Lelands Auction. I'm a professional statistician and know as well as the next guy that I'm going to be paying another K as BP. But, I'm with raulus . Keith H Thompson

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

There's been some great collections built on good whiskey and poor decisions on auction night...

There's been some great collections built on good whiskey and pour decisions on auction night...


Correcting your typo, Phil

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

There's been some great collections built on good whiskey and pour decisions on auction night...


Correcting your typo, Phil

Baddum Tiss...

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

I've noticed over the years that card shows are becoming less and less filled with Nrmt or Better Cards. Those all go to auction houses. If they are at shows they're asking auction house prices those of which do not sell at the shows. Several dealer friends of mine told me last year that tried selling their higher-end stuff at shows to no avail. Sent to a major auction house, REA, and did better than 25% over their asking price at shows, it's a big divergence. Big money and big egos show up at MA's !!

This is certainly true for cards that are easy to find otherwise, but for extremely high-demand key cards that are dead-centered with superior eye appeal, and thus very difficult to find, sellers can often ask pretty much whatever they want, within reason, and they'll find a buyer.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So to be clear, some of you guys are accusing Board members like Scott B, Scott R, Al C and Lee B of trying to deceive buyers into overpaying?

Sorry I didn't respond earlier Peter, but I see our new CPA here on the forum, Nicolo/raulus, has been having a pretty good go at you.

But as for this comment of yours, c'mon, you seriously want to accuse people of accusing some of our auction house owning/operating brethren here on the forum of trying to deceive people to somehow cheat them out of more money? OMG, you're so much better than this. And in another post of yours you responded about making this quoted post above because someone used the word "trick" in describing what was possibly happening. Well, the OP used the term "psychological tactic" in the very first post in this thread. It was I that used the term "psychological selling trick" back in post #6 of this thread, so quite obviously you are accusing me of saying Scott, Scott, Lee, and Al are basically trying to cheat people out of money?!?!?!

Maybe you should go back and read my post #6 again, because quite frankly, after that post of mine, no one really needed to say anything else to the OP, he already had the answer. And the last line I had in that post #6 is the biggest, most important, and most applicable of all in regard to this whole thing.

First off, AHs need to make money to stay in business, so of course they're going to charge someone a commission, and that isn't deceiving or cheating anyone. And when looking for consignors, AHs know that to consignors, it always looks better when they aren't supposedly going to pay for the entire commission out of their pocket. Go ask Scott, Scott, Lee, and Al how many consignments they'd possibly lose if instead of say charging a consignor a 15% sellers commission, and then charging the purchaser a 20% buyer's premium, one of them decided to simply charge the consignor a 29% seller's commission and there is no buyer's premium at all. (I'll explain later why the AH would only have to charge the consignor a 29% seller's commission.) Meanwhile, all their AH competitors continue to offer the split seller's commission/buyer's premium concept, and only ask for a 15 % seller's commission. So a potential consignor comes to all four AH owner's with the same item and hears three will charge him a 15% seller's commission. while one will charge him a 29% seller's commission. Who do you honestly think is most likely going to get turned down first to auction the item?

Think about it, the consignor upon hearing one auction house wants to charge him almost double what everyone else is going to charge, is likely going to immediately tune out everything else that AH owner is then going to say and try explaining to them about how they'll potentially still end up with same amount of money if they consigned the item with them at the much higher SC.

See, in your perfect world, say you as the potential bidder/buyer value this consignor's item at $120. So, if it gets consigned to one of the other AHs still doing the split seller's/buyer's fees of 15% and 20%, respectively, you immediately know you'll have a 20% buyer's premium to pay in that AH's auction, so you determine up front your max bid will only be $100, because then adding the 20% buyer's premium of $20 ($100 X 20%) to your max bid gets you to the $120 amount you feel the item is worth. And let's say you do end up winning the auction for your $100 max bid. You pay the $20 buyer's premium, the consignor ends up paying a $15 seller's commission ($100 X 15%), and the AH ends up making $35 ($20 BP + $15 SC). Meanwhile you, the winner bidder, paid $120 for the item ($100 hammer price + $20 BP), ignoring S&H and sales tax charges for simplicity's sake. And the consignor gets $85 ($100 hammer price - $15 SC).

Now what if the consignor instead went with the AH charging him a 29% SC, and there was no BP? You, in your perfect world once again, still value the item at $120. But since this AH isn't charging a BP, you put in a max bid for the full value of $120, and end up winning. In this case the AH makes approximately the same $35 as in the other scenario ($120 hammer price X 29% SC = $34.80). That's where the revised SC of 29% comes from. Meanwhile, you as the buyer pay the same $120 as in the other scenario, just now all of it as the auction hammer price. And the consignor ends up getting approximately the same net cash of $85 as in the other scenario ($120 hammer price - $34.80 SC = $85.20).

But all that only works out in a perfect world that you apparently live in. Consignors most likely aren't going to want to consign with an AH charging a higher SC, even it shouldn't make a difference in what they end up netting on their item sold (ask the brethren). Not all bidders think and act like you apparently do, and can be prone to getting caught up in the heat/excitement of an auction and forgetting about the BP. Seeing or not seeing that bid commitment amount, including the BP, on your auction bid list can, and does, influence many people, whether you think so or not. Our mind's play tricks on us, and often if we don't actually see something, we can just keep ignoring it. What's the old adage, "Out of sight, out of mind!". And there's a reason old adages are old adages, because they are very often fundamentally true!

Scott, Scott, Lee, and Al aren't trying to deceive and cheat anyone. They are trying to be competitive, and still pay the bills, and offer their services and fees in at least a somewhat consistent manner with their competition. They all fully disclose the costs and fees they charge buyers in their auctions. At the same time, they are all actually working for their consignors, who are their true clients, in trying to get them the highest final sales prices possible for their items. They do not work for the bidders and buyers in trying to get them to pay the least amount possible for things that they want. So if you actually think them using techniques like not including the BP in with current bids on auction bid pages is somehow deceptive and cheating, think again. Post #6, last line.

And isn't it you who often likes to make/use the "slippery slope" reference? Well, if all the auction houses did start including those BPs with the current bid amounts on their auction pages, you know damn well someone will then come along and start bitching about how they deceptively didn't include the sales tax, the S&H, or some other fees and charges, along with the auction bids amounts as well. And God forbid, if some AH did try to include all those other costs in updating the final total costs of items being bid on, in real time during an auction, when it turns out just one time after an auction ends that a winning bidder's final actual amount due doesn't agree with the in-auction totals because of some glitch, error, or whatever, the AH will just get bitched at some more.

And if you somehow still think AHs using or following psychological practices or tricks to get better prices for their consignors are being deceptive and thus trying to cheat people, then you better go ahead and similarly accuse most every business in the world that does any kind of marketing and advertising as being a deceptive cheat as well. Everything advertised and marketed is done so as to increase sales and profits, and ultimately get the most money possible out of every buyer. What do girls with big boobs, or NFL quarterbacks, really have to do with selling cars or home/auto insurance? As I noted in post #6, why do stores sell so many items for odd prices like $1.99, $4.95, or $9.99, why not just round off things to even dollar amounts then? Or what about how stores having sales very often list not just the sales price, but the total amount you'll save. Or even how stores will put shelves with certain items or the most expensive items always at the eye level of the average female shopper. And don't forget about impulse items at checkouts, and on and on. Marketing and advertising is all about visual and other psychological tricks and influences to get people to buy this and not that, and to pay more than less for things. And those visual influences can include showing certain things right out front, or not always showing them right out front, like BPs in auctions.

And speaking of old adages and fundamental truths, there's one that maybe kind of goes along with all this. Had something to do with when certain people's lips are moving I think.

Again, post #6, last line.

[Republicaninmass]

The real kicker is the shipping charges with most auctions houses. You think an extra 1.50 on ebay is bad...sheesh

[steve B]

Originally Posted by raulus

Agreed.

I think the big difference is that's common commercial practice. Most every vendor at every site quotes their prices before tax. You go to Walmart, Burger King, or Shoe Barn, and their prices are all before sales tax.

In the case of eBay, with eBay buyers theoretically being located just about anywhere in the world, quoting the complete price would be a challenge.

Here in Mass, including the tax as part of the sale price is not allowed. If the tax isn't calculated on the total sale, the store ends up over or under collecting the tax.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by raulus

It's all in the psychology of being a human. Smaller numbers feel less expensive than bigger numbers, even though they're the same amount in the end.

As mentioned by others earlier, it's no different than why retailers charge $0.99 instead of a dollar. It feels like it's less psychologically, even though we all know that it's really just $1.00.

And no different than why the gas station adds $0.009 to the price of your gas by sneaking it in there at the end of the price with a small 9 that is 3 decimal places out, rather than just rounding up to a full penny.

From what I've been told, there's also an odd thing where people associate an odd number with a bargain. Supposedly a test was done with identical items placed next to each other. One marked 99 cents, the other marked either 98 or 96 cents. The 99 cent ones always sold out first.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

There's been some great collections built on good whiskey and pour decisions on auction night...


Correcting your typo, Phil

There is been? .....
.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by raulus

I must be consigning to the wrong auction houses. Or maybe they don't like my stuff. Because the offers I have gotten are inferior to this. I pay a listing fee, and they keep the BP.

You are not alone. I am constantly getting seller's fees.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by steve B

From what I've been told, there's also an odd thing where people associate an odd number with a bargain. Supposedly a test was done with identical items placed next to each other. One marked 99 cents, the other marked either 98 or 96 cents. The 99 cent ones always sold out first.

Awesome. Embrace the illogic!

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by G1911

That’s exactly what it is, and why it’s kept separate by most of them. Otherwise it would just be your bid and they take X% as their commission as arranged with the seller. It’s not hard to calculate in and lower your bid accordingly, but surely many people don’t and they’ve learned more money is made this way than the other, straightforward way.

A mechanism instilled to lower bids is so counterintuitive to the auction process and yet it's accepted without question.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

There is been? .....
.

That one is on Casey (Phil) as well Leon. My post was a simple copy and paste with a single letter change.

Good pickup though, y’all are getting better. However when you changed yawl, you changed it to ya’ll not y’all.

Keep up the good work.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

My wife has an expression for it (which she may have taken from someone else): scam culture. Most people in this country are constantly on the grift, always looking for an advantage, and the more unfair the better.

There are millions and millions of people who idolize a guy who brags about cheating on his taxes, refusing to pay workers on his properties, and even scams people in educational endeavors. But that's a discussion for another board.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

That one is on Casey (Phil) as well Leon. My post was a simple copy and paste with a single letter change.

Good pickup though, y’all are getting better. However when you changed yawl, you changed it to ya’ll not y’all.

Keep up the good work.

My Cousin owns an apostrophe factory in Ohio and sends me a big ol' box o' 'em every Christmas so I have to use 'em up whene'er I can.

[Stupe the Second Sacker]

Originally Posted by perezfan

For those who don't understand the BP.... How do you propose the auction house earn any income and have the ability to keep running? They aren't trying to "fool" anyone. The rules are clearly posted, and anyone with the ability to process information should be able to understand them.

The usual red herring when this topic comes up. "If you don't like the BP, you're too stupid to understand it". Do these same people also think the consignor is too stupid to realize that they're agreeing to have their bids suppressed?

Whether or not we're all stupid, I also repeatedly read this defense, "the AHs don't charge the consignor a commission so how are they supposed to make money?". For all the times this gets repeated, you ever notice that it never gets confirmed? I highly doubt the majority of consignors are gifted zero commissions. If that's wrong, let's see some data.

And as others have pointed out (and it typically gets ignored) ebay with more overhead than any of these auctions houses, manages to keep the lights on just fine.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

A mechanism instilled to lower bids is so counterintuitive to the auction process and yet it's accepted without question.

And on the occasions where it is questioned, it causes some offense, evidently.