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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980)

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2021, 09:07 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
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Default 1952 Topps Sheet

Musings of a mad cartologist, I guess, but what if one had one of these and was interested in liquidating it. Assuming it would bring a higher return if cut up into individual cards - by a very precise, professional type slicer, of course - since, after all, there have to be many, many more set collectors than there are uncut sheet collectors, would it be worth considering? The only ethical thing to do on such a course, would be to inform the grading company that the perfectly centered cards were newly cut, but what would they be - altered, authentic? In that grade, would they be more or less valuable than the uncut sheet?
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File Type: jpg 1952 Topps High # Sheet.jpg (81.0 KB, 294 views)
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2021, 09:39 PM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
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Speaking strictly for me as a collector I would keep the sheet.... for me
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2021, 10:29 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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The "right" thing to do is to keep it together.

If... there was a grading company that could tell, they would all grade "A"

From the look of the right border, and maybe the bottom, all the cards would have to be cut off center to be the right size, unless you lost the right column and maybe bottom row, making for only 16 cards instead of 25.
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2021, 10:51 PM
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Wow!
All high numbers too!

No real answer on your dilemma but it sure would be a nice piece to own.
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  #5  
Old 04-23-2021, 06:06 AM
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I would be a crime to cut that up.


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  #6  
Old 04-23-2021, 06:10 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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A sheet of low series with May's did 50k. You should consign it as is in a major auction house immediately at the top of this crazed market.
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NEED THE FOLLOWING 1952 topps

G TO VG-EX

(TONS TO TRADE, HIGHS LOWS, VARIATIONS, ERRORS)

317 gregg
322 jackson
328 borkowski
334 mizell
345 white
347 adcock
354 Hatfield
355 morgan
366 madison
375 merson
386 yuhas
399 frisley
403 miller
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2021, 06:42 AM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Wow!!

Awesome sheet. If cut and disclosed or not disclosed and determined would all grade "A" as previously stated. It is unique (I don't recall seeing or hearing of a high number sheet before) - I think it would do really well as is at auction.
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I am actively buying vintage sports cards graded and raw, singles and sets and also open to trading. I love the odd and obscure – food issues, test issues, etc. Some feedback as a buyer: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=297262
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  #8  
Old 04-23-2021, 11:18 AM
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Please don't cut that sheet, sir.
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  #9  
Old 04-23-2021, 02:17 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Back in 1982, Bill Bossert, who had a BB Card Shop in Swarthmore, PA had a complete 100-card sheet of the 1952 TOPPS Hi #s.
It was quite a sight to be seen with Double-Printed Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, and Bobby Thomson cards on it.
The partial sheet in Post #1 here represents the lower-most right quarter of the complete Hi # sheet.

Whatever you do....leave it intact.

I collect uncut sheets BOWMAN, FLEER, LEAF, TOPPS, and a few pre-war sheets. Needless to say, the older they are, the scarcer
they are, nowadays.


TED Z

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  #10  
Old 04-23-2021, 05:11 PM
Volod Volod is offline
Steve
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Default Scary thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
The "right" thing to do is to keep it together.

If... there was a grading company that could tell, they would all grade "A"

From the look of the right border, and maybe the bottom, all the cards would have to be cut off center to be the right size, unless you lost the right column and maybe bottom row, making for only 16 cards instead of 25.
Right, Steve - but can you imagine how steely your nerves would have to be to put that thing in your local library's guillotine cutter?
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  #11  
Old 04-23-2021, 05:15 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
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Default Well....... don't leave us hanging

Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Back in 1982, Bill Bossert, who had a BB Card Shop in Swarthmore, PA had a complete 100-card sheet of the 1952 TOPPS Hi #s.
It was quite a sight to be seen with Double-Printed Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, and Bobby Thomson cards on it.
The partial sheet in Post #1 here represents the lower-most right quarter of the complete Hi # sheet.

Whatever you do....leave it intact.

I collect uncut sheets BOWMAN, FLEER, LEAF, TOPPS, and a few pre-war sheets. Needless to say, the older they are, the scarcer
they are, nowadays.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
What happened to the sheet??!! Pictures?
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I have cards for sale here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185900663@N07/albums

I am actively buying vintage sports cards graded and raw, singles and sets and also open to trading. I love the odd and obscure – food issues, test issues, etc. Some feedback as a buyer: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=297262
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2021, 05:05 PM
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Cliff Bowman Cliff Bowman is offline
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After Ted Z pointed out that the partial sheet is the bottom right corner of the 1952 Topps high number sheet I figured I would try to figure out the complete 1952 Topps high number sheet. I found two more 25 card partial sheets on Google and after a little investigating it dawned on me that the whole sheet was printed in numerical order. I'm sure this is already known to many but I didn't know it. The top fifty are #311 Mantle to #360 Crowe, then the bottom fifty are the double prints of #311 Mantle, #312 Robinson, #313 Thomson and then #361 Posedel to #407 Mathews.
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File Type: jpg 52 high bottom.jpg (73.2 KB, 180 views)
File Type: jpg 52 high top.jpg (75.4 KB, 180 views)
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Last edited by Cliff Bowman; 04-24-2021 at 05:39 PM. Reason: Messed up
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2021, 10:19 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volod View Post
Right, Steve - but can you imagine how steely your nerves would have to be to put that thing in your local library's guillotine cutter?
That's not the cutter I'd use...
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2021, 10:38 AM
mikemb mikemb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
That's not the cutter I'd use...
Maybe Bill Mastro?

Mike
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2021, 04:49 PM
Volod Volod is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
That's not the cutter I'd use...
Yeah, I know, but it will not be chopped up in any case... I was just speculating to get a thread going. Incidentally, I think actually it was a sales promo item, not part of a full printing sheet, since the top and left side borders are much wider than would be found had it been cut from a larger sheet.
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2021, 09:12 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volod View Post
Yeah, I know, but it will not be chopped up in any case... I was just speculating to get a thread going. Incidentally, I think actually it was a sales promo item, not part of a full printing sheet, since the top and left side borders are much wider than would be found had it been cut from a larger sheet.
It's interesting that the two other blocks of 25 shown in the other thread also have wide margins that are opposite of what would be expected.

A few ideas..

The sheets once had wide margins, AND wide gutters in between panels of 25 but the wide margins had been removed.
or
The sheets were set up using 4 panels of 25 cards, arranged as if they would be in number order on the complete sheet, but for the high numbers they were placed slightly out of order. maybe to make the collation more random?
or
these are slightly cut down final stage proofs of each block of 25 and not actual production cards.(and maybe used as a point of sale display or part of one?

I don't know if the 100 card sheets were doubled on the actual sheet that went through the press like the 132 card sheets were. If they were, it's possible the left and right sheets had different sequences like many 132 card sheets.
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2021, 08:15 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default 1952 Topps Sheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
After Ted Z pointed out that the partial sheet is the bottom right corner of the 1952 Topps high number sheet I figured I would try to figure out the complete 1952 Topps high number sheet. I found two more 25 card partial sheets on Google and after a little investigating it dawned on me that the whole sheet was printed in numerical order. I'm sure this is already known to many but I didn't know it. The top fifty are #311 Mantle to #360 Crowe, then the bottom fifty are the double prints of #311 Mantle, #312 Robinson, #313 Thomson and then #361 Posedel to #407 Mathews.

Hi Cliff Bowman....interesting coincidence, since I am about to talk of the BOWMAN cards. I applaud your research on this. As I have already said on this subject.....
in 1982 I was fortunate to see a complete 100-card sheet of 1952 TOPPS Hi #s. My recollection is in agreement with your simulated 1952 sheet arrangement.

Here is an illustration of my simulated BOWMAN uncut 6th series sheet. This is not guess-work. I visited with the BOWMAN's design Executive, George Moll, in 1982.
He showed me many of BOWMAN's uncut sheets. And he talked about the printing process. Zabel Brothers, Inc. was BOWMAN's printer in Philadelphia. They printed
the 1948 - 1952 cards using a 4-color process with a 38-inch (track width) press. To compete with TOPPS in 1953, they switched to a larger press (43-inch track).

TOPPS printed their 1952 cards using a similar process, but on a wider press (53-inch), which accommodated two adjacent 100-card sheets (similar to my BOWMAN
example here).




l<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38-inches -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->l



TED Z

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  #18  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
It's interesting that the two other blocks of 25 shown in the other thread also have wide margins that are opposite of what would be expected.

....

I don't know if the 100 card sheets were doubled on the actual sheet that went through the press like the 132 card sheets were. If they were, it's possible the left and right sheets had different sequences like many 132 card sheets.
I tend to agree with this but maybe with quadrants rearranged between A and B slits vs. the rows like they did later on. The known proof sheet (with the 2 extreme left columns and one extreme right column excised after the fact) from series two shows a wide gutter between the 2 slits but not between the rows on each slit (except for the gap before the "repeat rows" and I suspect but cannot prove the attached was prepared to show the full series as proofed, vs how they ended up rolling of the presses with a portion of two consecutive sheets shown; the slits should run left to right not top to bottom when printed for real). Related question: the 3 DP's with backwards stitching-on both sheets are they arranged 1 left pointing, 1 right or one sheet with 2 left pointing and the other with 2 right?
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File Type: jpg 1952 Topps second series sheet john moran.jpg (94.7 KB, 44 views)

Last edited by toppcat; 04-27-2021 at 01:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:08 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toppcat View Post
I tend to agree with this but maybe with quadrants rearranged between A and B slits vs. row The known proof sheet from series one shows a wide gutter between the 2 slits but not between the rows on each slit. Related question: the 3 DP's with backwards stitching-on both sheets are they arranged 1 left pointing, 1 right or one sheet with 2 left pointing and the other with 2 right?
That's sort of what I was thinking, that one would be
AB
CD

while the other might be
BA
DC

or any of the other arrangements.

I don't know how the two different stitchings were arranged.
To me it makes sense to have both of each type together, as an indicator of what part of the sheet was being looked at if there was a problem.
Sort of like how a bunch of injection molded stuff has numbers molded in to identify which cavity of a multi cavity mold a part came from.
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Old 04-27-2021, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
That's sort of what I was thinking, that one would be
AB
CD

while the other might be
BA
DC

or any of the other arrangements.

I don't know how the two different stitchings were arranged.
To me it makes sense to have both of each type together, as an indicator of what part of the sheet was being looked at if there was a problem.
Sort of like how a bunch of injection molded stuff has numbers molded in to identify which cavity of a multi cavity mold a part came from.
Yes, possibly like the * vs ** indicators after production and packaging moved to Duryea in 1966. The asterisks were introduced at that time by Ben Solomon (who was at Topps when the 52's were printed BTW) so he knew which slit he was looking at in the proofing process.

I added the referenced proof sheet and edited my post after you responded Steve.

Last edited by toppcat; 04-27-2021 at 01:19 PM.
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