Speechless

[mr2686]

Must turn away from this thread...must stop looking....can't stop looking...train derailed and mass destruction all around! Why would anyone watch TV when they could read this

[teetwoohsix]

Leon- you just "chopped the steak"

[novakjr]

I think we've learned at least 3 things today.

1)don't have your phone number available online.

2)don't spend $6.02 for a dollar bill on ebay, or you'll get hacked.

3)14 year old kids don't have to mow lawns for space invaders anymore, they sell electronic pictures of corned beef hash on ebay.

Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

[ctownboy]

When I Googled steaknchop and the name of the city in California that is listed on the fake Stan Musial autographed ball (or the corned hash), I came up with a number of web sites and chat boards this person was listed as a member on or had commented on. On one of those sites, he states his age as 22.

If you have time and want some fun reading, Google steaknchop and start going through the listings.

David

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by novakjr

I think we've learned at least 3 things today.

1)don't have your phone number available online.

2)don't spend $6.02 for a dollar bill on ebay, or you'll get hacked.

3)14 year old kids don't have to mow lawns for space invaders anymore, they sell electronic pictures of corned beef hash on ebay.

Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

Good stuff

[mr2686]

there's a post on a board from him from a few days ago that was asking if anyone had a Tiger Woods auto for sale. This falls under things that make you go hmmmm.

[ctownboy]

Other things that make you go "hummm?" are as follows;

if the guy is 14 then

1) How did he get hsi own eBay account?
2) How did he get his own PayPal account?
3) How did he get his own credit card?
4) Why was he on a chat board at 1:30 A.M. this morning? Shouldn't he be asleep?
5) Why was he on THIS chat board this afternoon? Shouldn't he be in school?

David

[Leon]

Wow....so I just got a call from our kid members dad. It is unfortunately plain to see where he gets his issues. After his dad informed me that I don't know my rights with my middle school education, I told him I did sleep at a Holiday Inn one night. I can assure our members, the apple ain't falling far from the tree on this one. And his dad steadfastly refused to believe I am not responsible for what others say. He went onto say he is going to close our board down. Why is it that people act like such idiots when they are so clueless as to what they are talking about? (I think that is a rhetorical question)

[Ease]

Sorry Leon for the trouble, I'm sure it's not the way you wanted to spend your Friday...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Ease

Sorry Leon for the trouble, I'm sure it's not the way you wanted to spend your Friday...

Thanks for the kind words Eric. No, not really the way I like to spend my day. Such is the life of trying to keep this place on the up and up.....I have no issues with youngsters being on here but they just need to behave. If I have said it once, I have said it a hundred times, America's biggest problem is the parenting of our children. With this father acting the way he was there is no way the kid will be a well disciplined person. His dad kept telling me I didn't know what I was talking about pertaining to the laws that govern this board. I don't know much law but I have a pretty good handle on that narrow issue. (I don't have a choice)...best regards and happy collecting

ps....and one last thing about this "hacked account" the kid said was done to him....if that were the case the whole account would have been closed by ebay, and it wasn't. The father is very naive about this.....

[Rich Klein]

I read this thread -- and if this Chris Wililams is the Chris Williams I think it is (we used to hear from him all the time at Beckett) --you can take his word to the bank -- he is one of the best people out there fighting the battle against bad autographs.

He may not have realized originally our rules about signing your names to posts in controversial threads but I'll wager that I'm right about Chris

Regards
Rich Klein

[novakjr]

Yeah, Sorry Leon. Corned beef hash and fake autographs are just too hard of a topic to keep away from. Had we known things would go down this way, I'm sure we would've backed off a bit.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Yeah, Sorry Leon. Corned beef hash and fake autographs are just too hard of a topic to keep away from. Had we known things would go down this way, I'm sure we would've backed off a bit.

No worries David. It wasn't anyone's fault. As our forum grows there will no doubt be similar situations. When I reworded the rules recently I gave a lot of consideration to setting an age limit for the board, and ultimately chose not to. I still think that was the correct decision. I want youngsters to collect. I know several teenagers in our space and all of them that I know are really nice kiddos.

Rich- yes, it is that Chris, and he and I had several emails a little while ago. He and I really see very eye to eye. He just didn't realize that rule. And that is part of the reason I posted that "privacy" policy rule on both sides of the board, in threads. I will bump those threads a few times too as I want everyone to understand that situation. I think we can all agree (well almost all of us) that accountability is a good thing. best regards

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I read this thread -- and if this Chris Wililams is the Chris Williams I think it is (we used to hear from him all the time at Beckett) --you can take his word to the bank -- he is one of the best people out there fighting the battle against bad autographs.

He may not have realized originally our rules about signing your names to posts in controversial threads but I'll wager that I'm right about Chris

Regards
Rich Klein

Thank you, Rich. Yes, that is me and the guy that does the YouTube videos. I would never intentionally hide behind anything I write or expose. I also want to "thank" Leon for his assistance. The bottom line here is that those three ridiculous autographs were eventually removed and that the truth did eventually find its way out.

[barrysloate]

Hey Leon- that sucks. Who needs this aggravation.

[Vintage Yankee]

Wow. At some points the banter was quite entertaining.

However, there's still one hour and about four Tylenol that I'll never recoup. Think I'll go play Combat (or the aforementioned Space Invaders) once the fog clears.

[MilBraves]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for the kind words Eric. No, not really the way I like to spend my day. Such is the life of trying to keep this place on the up and up.....I have no issues with youngsters being on here but they just need to behave. If I have said it once, I have said it a hundred times, America's biggest problem is the parenting of our children. With this father acting the way he was there is no way the kid will be a well disciplined person. His dad kept telling me I didn't know what I was talking about pertaining to the laws that govern this board. I don't know much law but I have a pretty good handle on that narrow issue. (I don't have a choice)...best regards and happy collecting

ps....and one last thing about this "hacked account" the kid said was done to him....if that were the case the whole account would have been closed by ebay, and it wasn't. The father is very naive about this.....

As a teacher, who deals with 150 teenagers every day, I feel your pain Leon.
Most of the time it's not the kids who are the issue, it's their parents. If I behaved in a fashion such as his kid did on this board, I'd be in the emergency room right now getting my dad's foot removed from my hind end. How times have changed.

Scott Heibler

[Rich Klein]

While he was in high school; Zach Rice was as good as it got towards being a board contributor --- and we all knew his age --- many kids (and their parents) can handle this and some can not.

Heck one of the better traders in the Topps Million Card giveaway on FB was only 14 - ( I was told whom it was privately) and he was one of best traders out there -- others that were kids were terrible as they expected great cards just by being a kid and asking. When they were told no and why -- they deleted their messages on FB and left.


Rich

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Must turn away from this thread...must stop looking....can't stop looking...train derailed and mass destruction all around! Why would anyone watch TV when they could read this

Mike,
Too funny!! LOL

[Leon]

You can't make this stuff up...This was sent to me this morning.....So the kids dad knows how to copy from the internet. He did go on to tell me he went to law school too..(I bet it was one them 'thar Ivy League ones!! )...I am not sure how he expected me to understand all of this with my middle school education and all .


"I took this from a 2007 Georgetown Law Riview Article. You should takte note:

Operators of blogs are generally immune from liability for defamatory statements posted on their websites, as long as they did not contribute to the posting. In 2003, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a listserv moderator and operator of a website which allegedly published defamatory statements provided by a third party was eligible for immunity under the Communications Decency Act (CDA). Batzel v. Smith, 2003 US App.LEXIS 12736 (9th Cir. 2003). However, if the online service provider plays an active role in soliciting information from users that leads to the defamatory act,(again, you spoke or got information from a 3rd party regarding my son) the operator may not be protected by the safe harbor provisions of the CDA. In Carafano v. Metrosplash.com, Inc., a federal court ruled on the application of the safe harbor of the Communications Decency Act (CDA). The defendant in that case operated a matchmaking website known matchmaker.com. As part of its service, the defendant collected profiles of singles based on an extensive questionnaire. The plaintiff sued Metrosplash because of a false profile of her which an unknown user had posted to the website. The court ruled that by creating the extensive questionnaire, Metrosplash played an active role in developing the information that had been posted. Furthermore, the court ruled that Metrosplash was an information content provider and thus not eligible for the CDA's safe harbor provided to "interactive computer services." Carafano v. Metrosplash.com, Inc., Case No. CV 01-0018 DT (CWx) C.D. Cal. 2002) (subsequently reversed by appeals court). While operators of blogs and services are generally immune from such liability, the more active the service is with its member's, the greater the likelihood of potential liability as a publisher of defamatory materials. (Thus, Leon, you may have liability here).

Another potential source of liability is the person who actually posted the defamatory materials (your posting regarding our conversation is way out of line, untrue and uncalled for). As with more general defamatory statements or materials, a poster can be held personally liable for anything posted which reflects falsely and negatively on a living person's reputation. Posting false and explicit claims regarding a person will generally be held as defamatory for purposes of liability. However, other issues arise concerning the anonymity of the person posting the information, and if known, the jurisdiction in which they are subject.
Jurisdictional issues may arise in situations where the poster had no reason to expect that the effect of the posting would be felt in a certain jurisdiction. However, in defamation cases jurisdictional disputes are liberally ruled upon in favor of the victim. In Griffis v. Luban, the Minnesota court of appeals ruled that Alabama had jurisdiction over a Minnesota defendant who posted defamatory messages on the Internet. The defendant repeatedly posted messages on an Internet newsgroup attacking the plaintiff's professional credentials. The plaintiff initially obtained a $25,000.00 default judgment in Alabama, which she was seeking to enforce in Minnesota. The Minnesota court ruled that the Alabama court had properly exercised jurisdiction because the effects of the messages were felt in Alabama and that the defendant should have expected that she would be sued there. An important factor in the ruling was that she had actual knowledge of the effect of the defamatory statements on the Defendant. Therefore, the Minnesota court enforced the $25,000.00 default judgment. Griffis v. Luban, 633 N.W. 2d 548 (Minn Ct. App. 2001).
However, there are cases where courts have refused to allow the exercise of personal jurisdiction based on defamatory statements. In a Pennsylvania case, the court refused to exercise jurisdiction over a New York defendant who had posted defamatory comments about a defendant on an offshore betting website. The court held that since the comments were not specifically directed at Pennsylvania, the court could not exercise personal jurisdiction over the defendant. English Sports Betting, Inc. v. Tostigan, C.A. No. 01-2202 (E.D. Pa. 2002).
The problems with bringing defamatory actions based on internet postings largely lie in proving that the defendant actually made the posting. If that connection can be made, a much stronger case can be presented and jurisdictional issues can be tackled.

Leon., if I assume you will take down the posting regarding me and the posting regarding my son. That way we can just move on. Best way to proceed in my mind."

[novakjr]

Wasn't all that personal information required during registration? And if he's referring to me outing his kids name, maybe he should tell his kid to not have stalked me down on facebook, thus resulting in me knowing his name. Basically, his name came out by his own doing, and not through 3rd party investigation.

And just one more question. Keep in mind, this is a question, and in no way is it intended to be considered absolute fact, or a defamatory statement regarding said person.

Is this guy a complete and total douche? or what?

[RichardSimon]

OMG,,,if his high profile sister is going to sue those who posted on this thread, please add my name to the list.
( I wonder what world she is high profile in? )
And Leon, that must have been some fun for you with the father. Next time he calls, just recite my Mark Twain quotes to yourself and hang up .

[slidekellyslide]

Shouldn't the father of this 14 year old kid be more concerned about his son posting worthless auctions to ebay and purchasing $1.00 bills in exchange for feedback than what we are posting on this forum? His son is in training to be a grifter and the dad is threatening to sick his law skills on us.

[mr2686]

Sounds like someone went to the same law school as Jethro de Bodine...both graduating Suma cumbe viddles.

[carrigansghost]

Law skills?

Rawn

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by carrigansghost

Law skills?

Rawn

Are you insinuating that Cut and Paste do not qualify as Law Skills?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Are you insinuating that Cut and Paste do not qualify as Law Skills?

A lot of times, law skills basically just comes down to cut and paste, plus the ability to convince someone to interpret said "cut and paste" the way you want them to. There are plenty of instances in which this is not the case though.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Shouldn't the father of this 14 year old kid be more concerned about his son posting worthless auctions to ebay and purchasing $1.00 bills in exchange for feedback than what we are posting on this forum? His son is in training to be a grifter and the dad is threatening to sick his law skills on us.

I agree Dan. The Dad and I are having some emails and I am continually telling him that he is going to have some issues with his son if he doesn't teach him some discipline. It reminds me of the day time judge shows on TV. Most times the parents don't think their children can do anything wrong, until the judge beats it into them telling them they ARE wrong. I don't know about this ebay hacking, although from what I have seen on this thread with the questions and answers posed, I suspect there are issues the Dad should be looking into, instead of defending. What I do know is the kid doesn't have respect for adults and I think that will lead to some issues as he matures. He might have great feedback on those other forums but his actions on this board have not garnered him any respect at all.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

When I Googled steaknchop and the name of the city in California that is listed on the fake Stan Musial autographed ball (or the corned hash), I came up with a number of web sites and chat boards this person was listed as a member on or had commented on. On one of those sites, he states his age as 22.

If you have time and want some fun reading, Google steaknchop and start going through the listings.

David

Leon- Maybe his dad is him? It's hard for me to believe that a 14 year old would be doing all this ebay scam stuff........but then again, who knows nowadays.

Clayton

[GeorgeBailey2]

First time post.

Man, what a fun read.

When Leon mentioned that the dad called him, all I could think of was "Ferris Bueller's Day Off".

Paul Banks

[carrigansghost]

No, Dan, I'm wondering how long it took him to type out the message with a pencil glued to his forehead one letter at a time.

Seriously, this is funny. Now that brings to mind a new topic.

Rawn

[carrigansghost]

No cut and paste. The rounded scissors and the yummy paste get in the way.

Rawn

[Big Six]

I think whoever lives closest to Leon needs to drop off an emergency 12-pack of his favorite frosty beverage for all his troubles on this one...

[Rich Klein]

Since Leon is 10 minutes from me; I'd have been happy to drop off something -- but usually weekends are family time for Leon, unless plans are made in advance.

Maybe next weekend; I'll drop off his favorite beverage; after finishing my driver's ed class. (Wife got a speeding ticket, so I'm taking driver's ed )

Rich

[steve B]

Just a hypothetical question, with no connection to any actual events...

Lets say a person, who happens to be a minor is engaged in fraud.
And let's assume that that fraud is being done with another persons computer. Like say his parents. And that for sake of argument the internet connection is under his parents name as well. And that the adult involved was informed of the fraud and refused to act.

Wouldn't that make the parent liable as an accomplice?

Sort of like if a kid breaks a window or damages a neighbors car the parents are responsible for paying for the repairs?


And could this apply to other situations like say harrassment or making prank phone calls?


Steve B

[teetwoohsix]

They just caught three teens here in Vegas who were vandalizing a neighborhood- smashing out peoples windshields with rocks, throwing rocks through the windows of their homes, etc.,etc....

On the news the D.A. said if they try them as juveniles they are going to also go after their parents for the damage (over $100,000.00 of damage).

Two were 16 years old, one was 17. If they get tried as adults, they will face prison time and be stuck with a very large amount of restitution.

So, I would think (I am not a lawyer, so I'm guessing) that in some cases the parents can be held accountable for the actions of their kids.

Clayton

[Leon]

Well, hopefully the dad will read our messages and at least understand there "could" be an issue with his son. I personally spoke with the 14 yr old on the phone for approximately 5-10 minutes. He is 14. I have a 14 yr old, I know what they sound like . I am 100% sure he is a teenager and I feel confident he is in fact 14.

Good point about liability here. I absolutely believe that, with what the father told me, he knows "almost" everything his son is doing and is making decent money at (so he told me), has now been advised publicly and personally that there might be an issue, so is now more liable than before his call to me or our emails. Only a judge would decide that though and, from my sense of the law, the dad would absolutely be responsible. Again, no firm accusations here .....just my thoughts.

[RichardSimon]

Dad must be proud of his son for devising those feedback scams.

[ctownboy]

I just went and looked at steaknchop7's eBay page for the fun of it and here are four things I found:

1) His eBay name is no longer steaknchop7. It is now melsclubhouse.

2) I thought on steaknchop7's Feed Back page there was a sale of an item, other than the corned beef hash crap, that went for something like $40 dollars (a bamboo piece?) and the buyer was melmotmel. I thought some people on here said this was a shill and steaknchop7 said it wasn't. Well, I can no longer find that sale or positive Feed Back on his Feed Back page. I wonder what happened to it?

3) There are currently three autographed tennis balls listed for sale. Weren't those three autographed tennis balls listed for sale when this whole mess started and didn't eBay remove them after steaknchop7 said his account had been hijacked?

4) I think steaknchop7 recently bought a fake 1941 Play Ball Joe DiMaggio card on eBay from a seller in Canada and spent over $300 dollars for it. Karma?

David

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

I just went and looked at steaknchop7's eBay page for the fun of it and here are four things I found:

1) His eBay name is no longer steaknchop7. It is now melsclubhouse.

2) I thought on steaknchop7's Feed Back page there was a sale of an item, other than the corned beef hash crap, that went for something like $40 dollars (a bamboo piece?) and the buyer was melmotmel. I thought some people on here said this was a shill and steaknchop7 said it wasn't. Well, I can no longer find that sale or positive Feed Back on his Feed Back page. I wonder what happened to it?

3) There are currently three autographed tennis balls listed for sale. Weren't those three autographed tennis balls listed for sale when this whole mess started and didn't eBay remove them after steaknchop7 said his account had been hijacked?

4) I think steaknchop7 recently bought a fake 1941 Play Ball Joe DiMaggio card on eBay from a seller in Canada and spent over $300 dollars for it. Karma?

David

Yes, he changed his Ebay ID this past Monday (Feb. 7, 2011). The only items removed were the Musial, Obama and Tiger Woods garbage. Look at his feedback and look at that Jim Rice he sold for $49.99. Looks like it was done by a 5 year old.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Yes, he changed his Ebay ID this past Monday (Feb. 7, 2011). The only items removed were the Musial, Obama and Tiger Woods garbage. Look at his feedback and look at that Jim Rice he sold for $49.99. Looks like it was done by a 5 year old.

Agreed, that Rice is horrendous. There's definitely a good amount of shady business going on here. I like how he's now charging shipping for his electronic pictures of Corned Beef Hash...

And you are correct, the tennis balls were originally listed while he was supposedly hacked. I remember reporting all 3 he had listed.

[ctownboy]

I believe the prices for the tennis balls magically dropped today after I posted they were relisted. The Nadal ball now has a starting price of $.99 cents.

David