A Cautionary Tale – Getting your affairs in order before passing on

[parkplace33]

One of my relatives works in the house clean out industry (basically emptying out houses, apartments, etc so they can be sold or rented). He told me that last week, his company had to clean out a house of a recent widow. While cleaning out, the widow talked about some items that had to be moved to her new apartment. One was a large collection of baseball cards in binders owned by the deceased husband. The widow went into a rather long diatribe about the collection and stated the following:

1. The husband gave the family no information about the collection. Nothing about value, inventory, condition. She thought it may have been 60s baseball and football cards, but wasn’t sure (the husband grew up in that era). She thought maybe he said it was worth 10k a few years ago.
2. A few years ago, the family asked the husband about the collection. He stated, “I will get around to it”. He never did.
3. The family (especially the widow) was very upset over having to deal with this collection. She went on about how maybe the money could be used to expenses, but now, they will have to do research about it and figure out who wants what or what can be sold.

I know some members joke about taking cards to the grave, but that isn’t feasible and more often than not, the above is the end result. I implore anyone with a collection of value to

- Get a will (or the like)
- Talk to your heirs about your wishes and also ask them about their wishes
- Inventory the collection and anything of value that will be passed on

[ClementeFanOh]

This is great advice. At minimum, if your collection is valuable and your
beneficiaries are not knowledgeable about collecting, I'd recommend these
off the top of my head:

1) the most valuable items being in a vault (bank, etc) that a beneficiary
can also access. (In other words, make sure your beneficiaries aren't
blocked from basic access to the items themselves.)

2) come up with a plan for what is going to happen with the items when
you are dead. Save them? Split them? Sell them? I'd also recommend
providing a direct contact to a trustworthy human source if selling is the
choice, such as a fellow collector/friend, an auction house, etc. This
would be a person who can give sage advice on what to do/where to go.

3) If your collection is incredibly valuable, legal documents are wise.

I' am hardly perfect in this regard, but my family will at least be on the
right starting block.

Trent King

[1952boyntoncollector]

I would think an auction house would gladly value the collection for free and advise if the collection has any value.

you can simply advise what auction houses you wish...

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I would think an auction house would gladly value the collection for free and advise if the collection has any value.

you can simply advise what auction houses you wish...

This is a good point especially for pre-war and graded cards. But if you have binders of 60/70s sets or partial sets, it will be a lot harder for your heirs to deal with.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

This is a good point especially for pre-war and graded cards. But if you have binders of 60/70s sets or partial sets, it will be a lot harder for your heirs to deal with.

At the very least leave information leading your heirs to an auction house or a hobby friend Who can direct your descendants. Any decent auction house will manage a large connection just fine raw and graded cards you may not milk every last penny out of the collection but so what.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

At the very least leave information leading your heirs to an auction house or a hobby friend Who can direct your descendants. Any decent auction house will manage a large connection just fine raw and graded cards you may not milk every last penny out of the collection but so what.

I agree, it's not that difficult. I do suggest that someone else knows who you trust in the business.

I have everything inventoried for the most part. That said, I have been trying to focus my collection and sell some random things (especially bulky items that are hard to display and transport...e.g. hockey sticks that I once was enamored with)..there is an arc in (collecting) life where you go from excited accumulation to focus and decluttering. I see it in my reunion "books" where people write about what they are doing. as people age the theme of simplifying comes up more often.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

I agree, it's not that difficult. I do suggest that someone else knows who you trust in the business.

I have everything inventoried for the most part. That said, I have been trying to focus my collection and sell some random things (especially bulky items that are hard to display and transport...e.g. hockey sticks that I once was enamored with)..there is an arc in (collecting) life where you go from excited accumulation to focus and decluttering. I see it in my reunion "books" where people write about what they are doing. as people age the theme of simplifying comes up more often.

Hi Paul,

I'm curious about your stick comment.... any early antique one-piece or rare models you're interested in parting with?

[rugbymarine]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

One of my relatives works in the house clean out industry (basically emptying out houses, apartments, etc so they can be sold or rented). He told me that last week, his company had to clean out a house of a recent widow. While cleaning out, the widow talked about some items that had to be moved to her new apartment. One was a large collection of baseball cards in binders owned by the deceased husband. The widow went into a rather long diatribe about the collection and stated the following:

1. The husband gave the family no information about the collection. Nothing about value, inventory, condition. She thought it may have been 60s baseball and football cards, but wasn’t sure (the husband grew up in that era). She thought maybe he said it was worth 10k a few years ago.
2. A few years ago, the family asked the husband about the collection. He stated, “I will get around to it”. He never did.
3. The family (especially the widow) was very upset over having to deal with this collection. She went on about how maybe the money could be used to expenses, but now, they will have to do research about it and figure out who wants what or what can be sold.

I know some members joke about taking cards to the grave, but that isn’t feasible and more often than not, the above is the end result. I implore anyone with a collection of value to

- Get a will (or the like)
- Talk to your heirs about your wishes and also ask them about their wishes
- Inventory the collection and anything of value that will be passed on

Good feedback. This concept drastically changed how I collect when I jumped back into the hobby 7-8 years ago. At heart, I'm a set collector, but whether I like it or not, sets are tougher to sell. (I realize this is a generalization, and that some pre-war sets are VERY easy to sell.) I am determined now to make sure that whatever I own is:
(A) Well documented. I use spreadsheets and photo apps to catalog items.
(B) Relatively low effort to sell. This is two-fold. Either after I've moved on, as in the case above. OR if a situation arises where I would need the funds

Whether I own 20 cards or 2,000 cards, I want to make sure the process of selling, if that's path that is chosen, is as seemless as it can be.

[oldjudge]

I have mixed emotions about this. Should a collection be documented--absolutely. Do I feel sorry for people who are left a collection and heaven forbid have to do some work before they cash it in--not really. Stop whining, do some research, and then cash out.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have mixed emotions about this. Should a collection be documented--absolutely. Do I feel sorry for people who are left a collection and heaven forbid have to do some work before they cash it in--not really. Stop whining, do some research, and then cash out.

I know people who have 100k + vintage sports cards. It would be a lot of work for a widow or other family members to wade through that, and they could easily be taken advantage of. Which is why the documenting and leaving contacts (other collectors or trusted dealers/auction houses) is so important

Bob

[oldjudge]

Bob--How do you document 100k+ cards? You really can't. The best thing might be just a note that says--if you want to dispose of this collection know that it was worth roughly $____ on ____. Please call ____ auction house and tell them you will consign it if they offer you ___ % of the buyers commission and no costs whatsoever to you. If they say yes--great. If they say no, call ____ auction house (provide a list of three or four).

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Bob--How do you document 100k+ cards? You really can't. The best thing might be just a note that says--if you want to dispose of this collection know that it was worth roughly $____ on ____. Please call ____ auction house and tell them you will consign it if they offer you ___ % of the buyers commission and no costs whatsoever to you. If they say yes--great. If they say no, call ____ auction house (provide a list of three or four).

True, but the auction house will want some kind of information besides I have a room full of cards that my husband said are worth $100k.

[Jewish-collector]

One of the biggest issues is choosing WHICH auction house to use.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have mixed emotions about this. Should a collection be documented--absolutely. Do I feel sorry for people who are left a collection and heaven forbid have to do some work before they cash it in--not really. Stop whining, do some research, and then cash out.

+1 It isn't hard. Hard is leaving nothing behind. My wife, or my daughter if my wife (God forbid) should go before me, will get $450 K in life insurance, a fortune in antique radios, comic books, and yes, baseball cards. If you're looking to subsidize whoever is left behind with baseball cards, well, I hardly doubt that's all there is. And if you could afford really valuable cards, then you're most likely sensible enough to leave behind a will in order to settle the estate.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have mixed emotions about this. Should a collection be documented--absolutely. Do I feel sorry for people who are left a collection and heaven forbid have to do some work before they cash it in--not really. Stop whining, do some research, and then cash out.

I'd bet the large majority of collections are worth less then the trouble to document and sell them. I think as long as you are ok with your family tossing the whole lot, or getting pennies on the dollar, then you statement is fine.

I'd prefer to set my family up for success, let them realize the value of the collection. At minimum this would mean having an auction house identified, the better stuff graded, maybe some hand written notes.

[oldjudge]

I think if you have a valuable collection you will want your heirs to be able to trust the auction house that will handle the material. You also want a place which has a track record of handling the type of material that you have and of course you want a place that will net your family the most money. Everyone should have an idea who that would be for them. I know a few, but not many, that would work for me.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by japhi

I'd bet the large majority of collections are worth less then the trouble to document and sell them. I think as long as you are ok with your family tossing the whole lot, or getting pennies on the dollar, then you statement is fine.

I'd prefer to set my family up for success, let them realize the value of the collection. At minimum this would mean having an auction house identified, the better stuff graded, maybe some hand written notes.

I think you're missing the point. It is not hard to set your loved ones up, but maybe they could stand on their own 2 feet? Maybe they could cash in with any number of AHs out there without too much stress and anxiety, after they cash in the life insurance policy, etc.? Are you trying to make your loved ones rich beyond avarice off of baseball cards? If so you'd better get hold of (graded) Cobb, Ruth, Mantle, et al.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

True, but the auction house will want some kind of information besides I have a room full of cards that my husband said are worth $100k.

not really hard..you take some pictures and send them to them..

[parkplace33]

Great feedback/info on this post.

For me, this is the most important item:

Talk to your heirs about your wishes and also ask them about their wishes

I believe too often, collectors love their collections but the heirs don’t. Have a conversation about what both want and come up with a way forward.

[rdwyer]

A friend of mine who had a card/coin/stamp shop recently passed. He stated he had over $100k in coins alone in the shop, nevermind expensive cards and who knows what in stamps. I've seen many of the cards and sets he had. (Mint 62 topps set, Mint 55 Topps All American FB set, etc). Anyway, he never had a will made. Now Family and previous wives are fighting tooth and nail in probate now. Real nasty stuff.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

not really hard..you take some pictures and send them to them..

Well you need to know what to take pictures of and whom to send it to. A little upfront planning can make all the difference

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

I have mixed emotions about this. Should a collection be documented--absolutely. Do I feel sorry for people who are left a collection and heaven forbid have to do some work before they cash it in--not really. Stop whining, do some research, and then cash out.

I know we're in the minority here, but that's the first thing that came to my mind too

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Well you need to know what to take pictures of and whom to send it to. A little upfront planning can make all the difference

Agreed Bob,
I have an excel spread sheet of all my cards and their acquisition price, scans on my computer in a folder, and a Flickr account to put it all together. My Trust simply says my kids inherit the asset to do what they want with it. I'll print out an updated spreadsheet occasionally and add it to the hard cases that hold the cards for convenience in case my computer fails, I still need to put a contact list of trusty AH names and contacts in with the collection.

[Hankphenom]

At the very least, leave a note with the cards giving the phone number or email of a trusted hobby friend, dealer, or auction house to call for help turning the collection into cash.

[ClementeFanOh]

It'll be a blast to get a virtual beating from another group on another topic...

I am with obcbobc completely, based on my own hobby tendencies. I've
spent 40 years acquiring a collection (and knowledge, although some of you
would question the extent of it, and it would be counterproductive and
incongruous to leave my closest loved ones with a task they are not suited
to handle. At the very least (and I mean barest minimum), a veteran
collector with valuable cards could take one hour(!) to write a note listing a)
the most valuable items and values b) a preferred auction house and c) a
trusted hobbyist to guide them. Given the enormous amount of time I have
spent acquiring the collection, a minimal effort to point uninitiated
dependents in the right direction seems wise. It sure sounds better than a
final note that essentially reads, "You figure it out!"


Trent King

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Well you need to know what to take pictures of and whom to send it to. A little upfront planning can make all the difference

im sure the auction house would assist them in what other pictures to take to the extent of whether its worth it to send someone over etc.

[cubman1941]

Interesting points across the topic. I face the same dilemma. I have been collecting for over 40 years and, while my collection is not super valuable, I needed to figure out something as my wife knows nothing about cards, memorabilia and value and doesn't care. My kids are collectors so could help, however, they live a thousand miles away and would have a hard time helping. My stepson is executer of our will since he is close buy but also has no knowledge of cards, etc. I have everything on Excel spread sheets broken down by year from 1887 to present. I have done the same with the unopened boxes I have. What I have done is to contact an auction house on this site and asked if they would auction it all off. I asked this because many auction houses will not fool with commons and I don't blame them. I got a positive response so printed off the question and reply and put one copy with the will and one in the room I have most of the cards and memorabilia.

[Johnny630]

Unless you have a son or sons whom love the cards and hobby as much as we do I 100% believe it’s better to Leave your family wealth not cards. By wealth I mean equities, real estate, and cash.



If your sons love the cards, slowly give them some cards as you get older. To me it makes me happier as I grown older to give then receive. I have more enjoyment seeing my kids happy then clutching the cards forever.

[ClementeFanOh]

Johnny630- there are people who are fortunate enough to leave their loved
ones many of those things (equities, real estate, cash). The topic isn't what
YOU think other people should leave their loved ones, it pertains to best
practice for people who have already decided (!!) that they are leaving
loved ones cards or other memorabilia. Anyone who reads your posts knows
that you have a very high opinion of your own financial advice. The problem
is that your advice often skips the nature of the actual hobby itself- which
is precisely what happened in this case. The question is, to what extent
should a collector prep his loved ones to receive collectibles upon the death
of the collector? It's not that difficult, and was the subject of every single
post in the thread until yours.

Short version- stay on topic.

Trent King

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Johnny630- there are people who are fortunate enough to leave their loved
ones many of those things (equities, real estate, cash). The topic isn't what
YOU think other people should leave their loved ones, it pertains to best
practice for people who have already decided (!!) that they are leaving
loved ones cards or other memorabilia. Anyone who reads your posts knows
that you have a very high opinion of your own financial advice. The problem
is that your advice often skips the nature of the actual hobby itself- which
is precisely what happened in this case. The question is, to what extent
should a collector prep his loved ones to receive collectibles upon the death
of the collector? It's not that difficult, and was the subject of every single
post in the thread until yours.

Short version- stay on topic.

Trent King

Sounds like someone's been "citizen's arrested!"

[ClementeFanOh]

Hi Pete! Yeah, the topic of this thread is interesting, it's been the subject of
direct conversations I've recently had with longtime friends who collect, and
I'm curious to read what others say (on all sides of the debate). I'm not big
into fighting the basic premise of a thread. If I woud agree to go with
friends to a steakhouse, it wouldn't play to lecture them on how chicken is
better than steak- I just won't go to the steakhouse in the first place

Trent King

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Johnny630- there are people who are fortunate enough to leave their loved
ones many of those things (equities, real estate, cash). The topic isn't what
YOU think other people should leave their loved ones, it pertains to best
practice for people who have already decided (!!) that they are leaving
loved ones cards or other memorabilia. Anyone who reads your posts knows
that you have a very high opinion of your own financial advice. The problem
is that your advice often skips the nature of the actual hobby itself- which
is precisely what happened in this case. The question is, to what extent
should a collector prep his loved ones to receive collectibles upon the death
of the collector? It's not that difficult, and was the subject of every single
post in the thread until yours.

Short version- stay on topic.

Trent King

Short Version me to you, I hope you find peace.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

One of the biggest issues is choosing WHICH auction house to use.

If you have a triple or quadruple logoman patch card, I believe the choice is clear.

[ClementeFanOh]

Johnny630- you neither hope, nor care, if I "find peace". The topic is
about the level of prep for loved ones to receive collectibles- which they
likely know nothing about- upon the death of the collector. It's actually
relevant and thought provoking for people who can focus on it. Trent King

[japhi]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I think you're missing the point. It is not hard to set your loved ones up, but maybe they could stand on their own 2 feet? Maybe they could cash in with any number of AHs out there without too much stress and anxiety, after they cash in the life insurance policy, etc.? Are you trying to make your loved ones rich beyond avarice off of baseball cards? If so you'd better get hold of (graded) Cobb, Ruth, Mantle, et al.

Actually Jim I think you are missing the point. I don't expect my loved ones to have to sort through a collection no matter what it is worth, or how much they make off a life insurance policy. If it's not hard to set them up, why wouldn't I? I don't have any animosity toward my family, I hope they profit greatly when I'm gone and will do everything I can to put them in the best position. They've earned it, by having to put up with me for however many years I live.

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

It'll be a blast to get a virtual beating from another group on another topic...

I am with obcbobc completely, based on my own hobby tendencies. I've
spent 40 years acquiring a collection (and knowledge, although some of you
would question the extent of it, and it would be counterproductive and
incongruous to leave my closest loved ones with a task they are not suited
to handle. At the very least (and I mean barest minimum), a veteran
collector with valuable cards could take one hour(!) to write a note listing a)
the most valuable items and values b) a preferred auction house and c) a
trusted hobbyist to guide them. Given the enormous amount of time I have
spent acquiring the collection, a minimal effort to point uninitiated
dependents in the right direction seems wise. It sure sounds better than a
final note that essentially reads, "You figure it out!"


Trent King

Agree with this. Anything I can do to make things easier for my wife/kids when I pass, I will try to do.

[rjackson44]

im leaving everything to my dogs

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Unless you have a son or sons whom love the cards and hobby as much as we do I 100% believe it’s better to Leave your family wealth not cards. By wealth I mean equities, real estate, and cash.



If your sons love the cards, slowly give them some cards as you get older. To me it makes me happier as I grown older to give then receive. I have more enjoyment seeing my kids happy then clutching the cards forever.

You may give your sons (or daughters) some of your cards to hold and enjoy as you get older, but I wouldn't formally gift the cards to them. I would be sure to retain ownership of them in my name until passing, and then specifically be sure to have named my collection as going to one or more of them as heirs in a will. Reason being that for now, under current estate tax law, anything a person leaves to their heirs in passing gets a "step-up" in tax basis to the inherited item's current fair market value as of the date a person passes away.

If you give/gift cards to your children while you're still living, the tax basis of those cards in their hands is a "carryover" basis equal to your tax basis (ie.:what you originally paid to acquire the cards and get/keep them in their condition at the time of your gift). Depending on how long ago someone acquired their cards, and what was originally paid for them, waiting to formally transfer ownership of them to your children as part of your estate could end up saving your kids a lot of tax should they ever sell some your collection down the road then.

Also, if you gift your cards to your kids while you're still vertical, you technically need to be able to give them your tax basis in each and every card so they know what it is should they ever go to then sell one or more of them. Waiting to let them inherit the cards can remove the burden and issues from not having kept complete and accurate records of all your card's tax basis'.

And I know how many in the hobby look to get around paying income and sales taxes on their cards when they do sell them, every chance they get. Even if it basically means committing tax fraud/evasion by not properly reporting taxable card sales when they occur. Well, here's one technically legal way to possibly get around a big tax hit for a collector who goes to sell off their collection. If you have a significantly older, close relative, most likely a parent, formally gift them your card collection. You can technically still keep and maintain the cards for your elderly relative, as their custodian so to speak. But then also have your elderly relative include in his/her will that upon their passing the card collection goes to you. In that instance you get a "step-up" in the collection's tax basis to its' fair market value on the day your relative passes. You can use your lifetime estate/gift tax exclusion amount, along with your annual gift tax exemption amount, to transfer your collection into your elderly relative's name with likely no tax consequences.

Does require a little work and effort, and their could be unforeseen consequences as the collection for a time is then legally part of your relative's assets/estate. But technically a legal way to possibly get around paying some taxes on the sale of one's collection.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Unless you have a son or sons whom love the cards and hobby as much as we do I 100% believe it’s better to Leave your family wealth not cards. By wealth I mean equities, real estate, and cash.



If your sons love the cards, slowly give them some cards as you get older. To me it makes me happier as I grown older to give then receive. I have more enjoyment seeing my kids happy then clutching the cards forever.

By the way, don't let any juvenile, sarcastic trolls put you down for your opinions and comments. I took your post to imply you are suggesting that, where possible, a collector in really looking out for his/her family might do better to dispose of their collection before they pass. And that way they can leave them cash or other equity assets, and not the burden of dealing with a card collection they may know little, if anything, about. In this regard, your post is most definitely on topic as part of this thread. In fact, I would further suggest that a post attacking your comments is in reality the one true post in this thread that is off topic. Pot calling the kettle black, so to speak. Except in this case, your attacker's accusation of you was wrong to begin with.

[ClementeFanOh]

Ding ding! Passive-aggression alert! BobC has arrived to act nice on the
surface while making sure he gets his digs in. I'm done then, everyone else
abandon ship! Was a great topic for awhile. Trent King

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by japhi

Actually Jim I think you are missing the point. I don't expect my loved ones to have to sort through a collection no matter what it is worth, or how much they make off a life insurance policy. If it's not hard to set them up, why wouldn't I? I don't have any animosity toward my family, I hope they profit greatly when I'm gone and will do everything I can to put them in the best position. They've earned it, by having to put up with me for however many years I live.

I think we agree, we just say it differently.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I think we agree, we just say it differently.

Good stuff, 'cause I hate arguing on the internet! Cheers Jim.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

im leaving everything to my dogs

And thus once again we will encounter that age old excuse - "The dog ate the cards".

Brian

[G1911]

It’s not easy to document well. It is if you have a narrow collection (not in $$, but in quantity of cards), but I have, I don’t know, maybe 40,000 vintage cards at this point. I have no idea what it’s worth; I keep up with values of what’s on my current want list, but not stuff I have for the most part.

Some of my stuff is left to specific collectors who would value it beyond the $$$, the bulk of it is just in the fund for my general heirs. My father would handle disposal of it, who knows cards and is aware of what’s good and what’s not and won’t get ripped. Should he pre decease me, none of my heirs or people who could be executors will know what’s what. With how prices change and things go in and out, it’s hard to keep a document explaining what card is what and what’s worth how much. They’re aware it’s a good bit of cash in cardboard. If they want to put in the work to get free money from me, they can. If they want to dump it because it’s too much work, they can.

[ChiefBeef]

How will your survivor(s) even know where to begin and not get taken? Well, unfortunately it requires you to put in the work. This would hold true for yourself to protect against catastrophic loss as well.

About 10 yrs. ago I used a ready made software to post and record my collection. Received updated values by grade quarterly. Was easy and great product. They got swallowed up by Beckett. Looked and searched a long time. Never found another comprehensive product that wasn't simple and easy to use. Decided to use excel spreadsheet. By copying Beckett and with a few easy clicks in excel you have a very usable and informative database. Took a while and you have to upload any price updates manually but not hard. I am talking 150,000 cards +, from T206 thru present day. Call me crazy or what you want, but I got the insurance requirements and estate issues covered with some help. Not saying it solves either but serves as a base to work from. I have even incorporated and covered pins, pennants, auto balls, auto pictures and bats.

[Jewish-collector]

In the late 1980's, there was a DOS-based computer program to track your collection. You typed in the card info and it calculated the price from it's internal database. It was based on the grading conditions at the time (maybe ?) mint, vg-ex, f-g. It was advertised in SCD, baseball hobby news, Trader Speaks, etc,... and sold for about $100. Not sure if there is anything like that nowadays.

[GasHouseGang]

I think I bought that program back in the day. I believe it was called "The Trading Card Database", or something like that. I used it for awhile, but I gave up since you had to enter each card and assign it a grade (including commons). I assume it would have needed constant updating of it's internal database to remain accurate. It was a good idea, but it took too much work when you have thousands of cards to enter.

[molenick]

If you subscribe to VCP, you can track your cards and also check them against the latest prices. I never realized it before, but you can also download My Collection as a pdf or csv file...which I will now do and put in the folder with my will, which just says the collection is to be split between my two children.

VCP is only good for cards (and close relatives like checklisted pin sets, felts, etc.). Not great for books, uniforms, bats, generic cdvs, etc.