T220 Silver - Uncut Edition

[D. Bergin]

Not sure I saw this thread before with them all laid out like that in sheet form. Still blows my mind these ever came up for sale.

Congrats again.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not sure I saw this thread before with them all laid out like that in sheet form. Still blows my mind these ever came up for sale.

Congrats again.

It amazes me how much stuff just disappears for a century or more. All our cards had no real value for most of their life, but just sitting there and never getting cleaned out seems a miracle. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t cleaned out their attic in the last hundred years. The Donovan at all was only a hypothetical card until 2006, 96 years after production. Now we have at least 12 known from just the last 16 years. Surely there is plenty more still out there to find. I’m glad it works this way, never know when we’ll next find something awesome and new that helps fill in the mysteries. The hobby would not be so fun if there wasn’t that element of the unknown out there. One of the big joys of vintage collecting as opposed to modern, in my book, is this element.

[Exhibitman]

with a 5 x 5 layout I wonder why Donovan and Corbett are so hard to find? I know with the 1948 Leaf set, the sheets are 7 x 7, so something replaced the Graziano as the 49th subject. Since there are no replacements for those two cards (it is a straight 25 card set), I wonder if there are any DPs?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

with a 5 x 5 layout I wonder why Donovan and Corbett are so hard to find? I know with the 1948 Leaf set, the sheets are 7 x 7, so something replaced the Graziano as the 49th subject. Since there are no replacements for those two cards (it is a straight 25 card set), I wonder if there are any DPs?

I strongly suspect the answer is: no DP's. Using my own collection (I have too many of these), POP reports, and unique raw examples I have tracked by the image, I don't think there are any DP's. Everything comes out within the regular range of norms for sets with equal production. I had assumed that DP'ing was likely originally because it would be the easiest way to deal with having to remove 2 subjects from this sheet while being resource efficient, but it seems this didn't happen. I was fairly surprised.

Its possible these 16 slots were replaced in a more complicated way. Instead of, say, taking Jack Burke's panel and DP'ing it in Donovan's place as well as it's own original slot, they might have copied 2 copies of 4 different cards, or 1 copy of 8 different, creating a population disparity but not one big enough to really track or demonstrate or veer outside of the norms we see for known 1:1 printed sets.

It might be that they just printed these slots and cut them out before packing. Or the slots were simply left blank. It also may be part of why there are silver and white borders. Wave printing of 25 appears to have been a norm; series not all done and distributed at once. It may be that the silver series was not intended to only get the first wave (the lack of factory 30 is odd and also demonstrates an incomplete run), but with the complications with these two cards (whatever those were; earlier we found op-eds by Donovan harshly denouncing smoking, but he was also personally known by Fullgraff) and the added expense, they hit pause, ditched the border, fixed the Donovan and Coburn cards and did whatever was going on with Corbett, and started printing wave 1 again (with, I think the evidence suggests, a batch of 649 backs first [Donovan yellow sky, Coburn blue man, etc.], then 649's and 30's at about the same time in multiple runs), and then wave 2 featuring an aesthetic redesign of the art style for the single fighter cards to complete the series. The ATC ledger and clean printing of the Tolstoi's both indicate Tolstoi production was at a remove from the Mecca runs. Dixie Queen being before or after Tolstoi, but certainly after Mecca began for the same reasons that none of the defects in early Mecca printing are found in the DQ's. I had thought DQ's were probably a reprint like T213-2 and -3, but the Fullgraff notebook seems to indicate they weren't.

That these sheets and their project managers notebook appeared from unknown but clearly different sources at the same time over a century later is another oddity. Whoever consigned Fullgraff's personal ledger may have other material of knowledge value of his.

[G1911]

While the T220 sheet being more complete and the backstamp on it has led to fleshing out a lot of what was going on in 1910, these track fragments may end up leading somewhere too. In the general narrative that is repeated, the ATC and AL worked together on the cards, with the ATC as the dominant partner and AL as the contracted printer. I think that a lot of what we have found has the lithographers controlling a lot of the ATC's operations, instead. The E229 fragments clearly come from the same origin as the T220 sheet, though who exactly this was and how they got them is a mystery. Being from the same source and being proof sheets (The T220 is a pre-production proof sheet, not just a sheet, beyond any reasonable doubt while this one most likely is) would suggest, though not conclusively prove, that the items are from the same printing shop. The checklist has a lot in common with the track athletes under contract with the ATC products. It raises the possibility that the

Here's 3 more sheets that the purchaser from the second round of auctions was kind enough to arrange a deal for. I suspect a lot more of this sheet is just missing and did not survive at all, compared to the T220 sheet. The bottom panel is actually in two pieces, connected only by the back tape.

I still cannot discern if this is an E229 or a D353 sheet, or tell which set came first, or if both sets were issued at the same time. D353 advertises that a card was given "with" (not "in", and the card's don't typically betray signs of having been stuffed in with bread) Koester's Honey Bread "for month of May" with no year specified. May 1910 or May 1911 would be most likely. These issues and T218 are really more a look at the big stars of 1908 than anything, and the checklist does not really help the dating.

[G1911]

And here's a reconstruction of the pieces that fit together touching, with gaps left between segments that don't connect. It's possible it's not all from one sheet. It does seem likely rows repeated 5 cards in a pattern, but where those patterns are placed seems random.

[aljurgela]

but since Adam mentioned this card....

amazing sheets btw..