T206 Reference / Reflections.....Tuesday Nite Trivia

[sreader3]

Hi Ted,

Sorry I have been AWOL for quite a while.

Interesting theory about P42/Uzit light/dark blue.

Did I miss something w/r/t P42 confirmations?

Are there differences in confirmations between light/dark P42? If so, perhaps a separate checklist is warranted (like Sov 350 Apple/Forest Green).

We could even come up with a name like baby/royal blue (although I hate the term "baby") that emphasizes the difference. That's part of the fun!

Scot

[tedzan]

Hi Scot

This is my current checklist. Do you have any other 460-only series guys to add to this list from your surveys ?

Originally Posted by tedzan

With the recent discovery of Tinker (bat off shoulder) the confirmed total now is 72 subjects with the PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 back.







PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list..............72 subjects

350/460 Series............63 subjects (complete)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series............9 subjects

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Other Net54 sources claim that the following 4 subjects are confirmed.

Chance (batting)
Bergen (catching)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

My research indicates that these 4 subjects are PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 No-Prints.



TED Z
.

[sreader3]

Hi Ted and Sean,

Nothing to add to Ted's P42 list.

I keep thinking I have seen Murray (Portrait) P42 some time in the distant past but you know how the mind can play tricks about such things. I'm probably confusing it with Schlei (Portrait) or Seymour (Portrait).

Scot

[tedzan]

I too, some years back thought I has seen a PIEDMONT 460/42 of Murray (portrait).

Since then, though, I realize I was mistaken.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * *


. .


Connie Mack was a staunch anti-tobacco guy, who did not want his image portrayed on tobacco cards. **

Here's his E96 card. And, of course he can be found on various E-type cards. One of notoriety is the E104-1 set which features the 1910 World Champions A's.
Connie Mack was quite thrilled about this set of cards, as is noted in his Biography **. The same printing firm also produced the Cullivan's Fireside (T208) set,
which of course is a tobacco issue.

Connie Mack recruited most of his ballplayers from College. He felt they had better training and they could think better than players from the farm system. He
would often personally scout the College guys, or his brother (Tom) would.


** Note....Connie Mack (and the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht

Hey guys

I highly recommend this book. While reading it, you'll imagine the guys in your T206 set come alive. Almost every player from that era is covered in this book.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * *




. .

Connie Mack recruited most of his ballplayers from College. He felt they had better training and they could think better than players from the farm system.
Jack Coombs is a perfect example of Connie's recruiting style. Jack was a 4 sport (baseball, basketball, football and track) athlete at Colby College (Maine).
Tom Mack (Connie's brother) scouted Jack during his College days. In his senior year (1905), Jack signed with the A's. His first 4 years, Jack's pitching record
was unimpressive. Then in 1910, Jack's W-L record was an amazing 31-9 with 1.30 ERA. Furthermore, he won 3 games in the World Series defeating the Cubs.

In the Fall of 1910, American Lithographic was designing their 460-only series cards; therefore, why didn't they include Jack Coombs in this series ? Given, the
tremendous year he had. I do not really understand why he is missing in the T206 set.

Incidentally, Coombs won 28 games in 1911, and 21 games in 1912. WOW !....80 games won in 3 consecutive years. **

Is that a record, or what ?


Incidentally, for whatever reason, Jack Coombs is not featured in the E104-1 set, nor the 1910 Cullivan's Fireside (T208) set, both of which feature the 1910
World Champions A's. The same printing firm produced both of these sets.


** ....Connie Mack (and the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * *


Shoeless Joe Jackson

.




Connie Mack recruited Joe Jackson in 1908, and Joe started with the Philadelphia A's in Sept 1908. Joe's style just did not fit in with the "College Boys" on the A's.
Part of the problem (believe it, or not) was that some Americans were still "fighting" the Civil War. Check-out the players in your T206 set and you'll discover that
very few of them were from the "deep South". Of course Cobb is one of these few Southerners. But, Cobb was sort of a unique dude. **

Joe played in only 10 games for the A's (1908 & 1909). Connie Mack traded Joe to Cleveland in July 1910. 1911 was Joe's 1st full Major Lge. season (147 games).
Joe was amazing....233 Hits for a .403 BA. So, the real question to any one on this forum is....why wasn't Joe in subsequent T-card sets ? We know that American
Lithographic (ALC) was introducing T205 cards as late as the Fall/Winter of 1911. But, where was Shoeless Joe ? ?

Then in 1912, I would think ALC would have included Joe in their T202 set. But hold it for a moment....is this Joe in this T202 centerfold sliding into 3rd base ?



** ....Connie Mack (and the Early Years of Baseball), Norman Macht


Smoky Joe Wood

Info forthcoming....stay tuned.


TED Z
.

[tedzan]

* * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * *


Smoky Joe Wood

From 1908 - 1910, Smoky Joe's performance pitching for Boston (AL) was less than impressive. Nevertheless, during this timeframe American Lithographic
was planning, designing, and printing the 388 different subjects for the T206 set. They included Smoky Joe's battery mates (Bill Carrigan & Tubby Spencer)
in the T206 set....but no Joe.
Interestingly, Smoky Joe is even featured in the 1909 American Caramel (E91-C) set. So, I really don't understand why he was not included in the T206 set.
Anyone on this forum have any thoughts regarding this omission ?

Wood won 23 games in 1911. Then followed it up with a 34-5 W-L record with a 1.91 ERA in that "magical" year of 1912. Furthermore, Joe single-handedly
beat the NY Giants in the World Series, winning 3 games (the final game in relief).

I traded my T207 Joe Wood card quite a few years ago (my regret)....so I don't have a card of him to display. I'd appreciate if some one here would post a
Joe Wood card.


TED Z
.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by tedzan

* * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * *

Connie Mack was a staunch anti-tobacco guy, who did not want his image portrayed on tobacco cards. **
Of course he can be found on various E-type cards.
. .

Connie Mack recruited most of his ballplayers at from College. He felt they had better training and they could think better than players from the farm system.
Jack Coombs is a perfect example of Connie's recruiting style. Jack was a 4 sport (baseball, basketball, football and track) athlete at Colby College in Maine.
Tom Mack (Connie's brother) scouted Jack during his College days. In his senior year (1905), Jack signed with the A's. His first 4 years, Jack's pitching record
was unimpressive. Then in 1910, Jack's W-L record was an amazing 31-9 with 1.30 ERA. Furthermore, he won 3 games in the World Series defeating the Cubs.

In the Fall of 1910, American Lithographic was designing their 460-only series cards; therefore, why didn't they include Jack Coombs in this series ? Given, the
tremendous year he had. I do not really understand why he is missing in the T206 set.

Incidentally, Coombs won 28 games in 1911, and 21 games in 1912. WOW !....80 games won in 3 consecutive years. **

Is that a record, what ?

TED Z
.

Hey there Ted!,

No Doubt Mr. Coombs had an impressive 3 Year Run!
80 Wins in Just 3 Years Will Nevar Happen AgaiN....

Being a "BiG" Ed Walsh Rooter, I Do Know THaT
Mr. Walsh Had His Own Nice Run of 81 Wins From 1906-08(17,24 & 40)
I'm Not Sure if it's the Record?, Mr. Walsh Certainly Holds Many!

Howevar, As You Know "BiG" Ed Holds the All Time Record fir ERA(1.82),
And Mr. Coombs Bested the Spitballer by 1.32 to 1.59 during their 3 Year Runs.
So, my Hats Off to Mr. Coombs!
~ Very Impressive during his time ~

*And I Just Moved Mr. Coombs to the "Head of the Pack"
Of my "Who Should of Bin Included inta the T206 Set"!!!

As Always Sir... Dankz fir the Education, "TRuLy!"

[tedzan]

Hi Denny

Thanks for the information on "Big Ed". Walsh (as you well know) was amazing from 1907 - 1912.....168 Wins. That's an average of 24 Wins per season !

Hey guy, we here in Pennsylvania have produced a lot of great ballplayers throughout the years. Dare I say the T206 set consists of more Pennsylvanians
than from any other state in the country back then.

Yes, for 3 consecutive seasons Jack Coombs was a tremendous pitcher. But your guy was tremendous for 7 consecutive years.


Thanks again for the memories,

TED Z
.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

Hey there Ted!,

No Doubt Mr. Coombs had an impressive 3 Year Run!
80 Wins in Just 3 Years Will Nevar Happen AgaiN....

Being a "BiG" Ed Walsh Rooter, I Do Know THaT
Mr. Walsh Had His Own Nice Run of 81 Wins From 1906-08(17,24 & 40)
I'm Not Sure if it's the Record?, Mr. Walsh Certainly Holds Many!

Howevar, As You Know "BiG" Ed Holds the All Time Record fir ERA(1.82),
And Mr. Coombs Bested the Spitballer by 1.32 to 1.59 during their 3 Year Runs.
So, my Hats Off to Mr. Coombs!
~ Very Impressive during his time ~

*And I Just Moved Mr. Coombs to the "Head of the Pack"
Of my "Who Should of Bin Included inta the T206 Set"!!!

As Always Sir... Dankz fir the Education, "TRuLy!"

Cy Young won 97 games from 1891-93. Walter Johnson matched that from 1912-14.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by sreader3

Hi Ted,



We could even come up with a name like baby/royal blue (although I hate the term "baby")

Scot

Hey Scot, that's exactly what my girlfriend calls my Plank: the Baby Blue Plank. And I hate that term as well.