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  #1  
Old 03-27-2021, 02:29 PM
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Default PSA 8 1960 Clay Exhibit??

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-EXHIBI...p2047675.l2557

Not in the pop report as best I can tell and they don't grade them. So was it decertified at some point?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-27-2021 at 02:29 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2021, 02:53 PM
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I don't think it was decertified. For some reason PSA refuses to grade anything except baseball Exhibit cards. That was not always the case, so there are a few other subject cards out there.

The sepia tone of the card indicates it was from a later print run, say mid-1960s.
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2021, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
I don't think it was decertified. For some reason PSA refuses to grade anything except baseball Exhibit cards. That was not always the case, so there are a few other subject cards out there.

The sepia tone of the card indicates it was from a later print run, say mid-1960s.
If in fact it was graded but not decertified then it would be in the pop report, no? It's not. Or do they just zap the pop if they stop grading?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 03-27-2021 at 02:56 PM.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2021, 06:46 PM
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I have no idea; I am not well versed in the workings of PSA. Makes my head hurt.
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2021, 10:03 AM
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Is it possible for any Ali/Clay exhibit to have come out in 1960? Seems like an awfully optimistic date speculation on the slab.
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  #6  
Old 03-28-2021, 01:04 PM
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No, thats bullshit. My guess has always been the Exhibit card is from around 1962-1963. The image they used looks like it is from a photo session that produced one of Ali's promos:



The very first Clay promo photo session took place in December 1960 in Miami. Here is a photo using that image, from 1963:



It is clearly earlier than the ESCO image. Now, here is a publicity photo from The Thrilla in Manila:



The first image is the same as the Exhibit image. They used that to illustrate the young man. The second image was used in the packet for the first Frazier fight but dates to the latter part of the 1960s.

Here is a rare ca. 1967 card of Ali:



From the extension of the Kid Herman set. I've also seen a lot of photos from a 1962 Stanley Weston session that look similar to the image but are of a younger man. So we are narrowing the window down to pre-forced retirement but post 1962. My guess is 1963 since Clay was decimating the ranks and becoming a top contender. Of course, we would need catalogs to pin it down.

Here's an uncut sheet:



Willie Pastrano won a title in 1963. As did Joey Giardello.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 03-28-2021 at 06:11 PM.
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  #7  
Old 04-04-2021, 07:57 AM
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Still in the pop report. Here is what I got on my search:
https://www.psacard.com/cert/30151430

Quote:
PSA Certification #30151430
According to the PSA database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

ITEM INFORMATION
Certification Number 30151430
Reverse Cert Number/Barcode No
Year 1960
Brand EXHIBITS BOXING (NO LONGER GRADING)
Sport BOXING/WRESTLING CARDS/MMA
Card Number
Player CASSIUS CLAY
Variety/Pedigree
Grade NM-MT 8
POPULATION
2
POPULATION W/QUAL
0
POPULATION HIGHER
0
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Oh, what a difference a year makes.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2021, 11:23 AM
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Further exploring dates, Sugar Ray Robinson is next to Clay on the sheet. Robinson's last fight of note was against Giardello in 1963. After that he went to Europe on a greedy bastard tour and fought a bunch of tomato cans with mixed results. My guess is that he was in the set because he was still considered a serious contender until Giardello beat him down on June 24, 1963. That would be consistent with a 1963 issue date.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2021, 03:09 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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I have a black and brown version. Are there differences in dates between the two? Is one older than the other?

And I'd presume this Exhibits card would be considered Ali's American rookie card.
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  #10  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:41 AM
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I have all three, plus a glossy 'slick' meant to be pasted to a machine header card. My best info is that the set was issued in green first, then sepia, then black and white, so the greenies are the earliest.

As far as I know the green Exhibit is the first American Clay card issue. However, I still believe that the Hemmets is the rookie card and the 1962 Rekord probably predated the green Exhibit as well. I'd guesstimate that the Exhibit was followed by the Chocolat Simon and MacRobertson in 1964, then a wave from Europe in 1965 (Peretti, Lampo, orange background Swedish chocolate, Dutch Serie MLH). Also the Argentine 'pog' Clay which PSA dates as 1962 but which has a photo taken on June 18, 1963 (PSA wrong again...I am shocked), so not. 1966 we have the first Panini Clay and also the Mundo de Fantasia from Argentina.

BTW, can you see the difference between these two cards?



Both are blank backed. They look the same to me.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 04-16-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2021, 03:02 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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Thanks for the clarification Exhibitman.

I'm not surprised this Exhibit card is starting to get more attention as it's his first American rookie card. Not only that but it seems to be his first true card that didn't need to be cut out of a magazine like the Hemmets and Rekford as it predates the Chocolate Simon.

What irks me about the 1960 Hemmets is that the backs don't line up when cut out, making me think those were never intended to be cut out like cards.

If the 1925 Exhibits RC Lou Gehrig is now getting a lot of love maybe the 1962/63 Exhibits Ali will too.

Last edited by The Nasty Nati; 04-16-2021 at 03:06 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2021, 03:22 PM
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Adam, I'm still trying to figure out why those two Clay cards got a 2.5 and a 3 - how am I supposed to tell any differences?!
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