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#1
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T206 Black vs Brown Lenox
Here is a comparison of the rare Black Lenox vs the super-duper rare Brown Lenox. Anyone else have a black and brown combo?
Anyone know the theory on why there are browns, why they were distributed in packs, whether all blacks should conceivably have at least one brown counterpart out there, why some players seem to have a decent amount of Browns (McQuillan - like 4-5) and others have one (or none)? What do we know about the elusive Brown Lenox? Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 08-07-2020 at 04:03 PM. |
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I have a Merkle Black and Brown.
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Would also love to hear more theories about Brown Lenox. (Calling Ted Z).
(Ryan, we know of 3 confirmed McQuillans, right? You think there's 4 or 5?) Here's mine... Last edited by MVSNYC; 08-07-2020 at 03:59 PM. |
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Sean, lets see pics of the Brown and Black Merkle (we know there are two of the Brown Merkle)
PSA has 3 - my 1.5, your A, and the A that sold last night (Hi Jeff, welcome to the club). SGC pop report shows 2 -- both A's. Is it possible that both of SGC's A's have been crossed to PSA, sure, and certainly 1. But maybe not. So the pop reports show 5. Also, there are 3 McQuillans. I dont know of any other player with more than 2 known examples, so I figure there could be 4+ |
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I used to own a Chase Trophy Brown, very low grade, not sure if it's the same one as Jeff has.
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Ryan, did you mean you think McQuillan is 4/5, or 3? Your reply confused me a bit.
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#7
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T206 Brown LENOX cards
Quote:
The timeline of the printing of these Group B subjects with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460, LENOX, and UZIT backs was Jan - Feb 1911. This exact timeline coincides with the printing of the T80 (Military Men) cards. Shown below, the T80 cards were printed with CAIRO MONOPOL, LENOX, OLD MILL, TOLSTOI, and UZIT backs. To date, 25 brown LENOX cards are confirmed. If my theory proves true, I predict that 11 (or 12) more T206 cards may eventually be discovered with the brown LENOX backs. Exactly 19 subjects of the 25 brown LENOX cards are from the 350/460 series, and 6 subjects are from the 460-only series...... T206 350/460 series....Group B (Brown LENOX candidates) 350/460 series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs Bradley (bat) Burch (fielding) Cobb (bat off shoulder) Conroy (bat) Crawford (bat) Jennings (one hand) Jordan (bat) Lajoie (bat) Lake (no ball) Leach (cap) Leifield (bat) Manning (pitching) McQuillan (bat) Overall (yellow sky) Pfeister (throwing) F. Smith (Chicago & Boston) Wagner (bat on right shoulder) Willetts Willis (bat) The 6 brown LENOX cards from the 460-only series are from the same group of 9 subjects that are the only confirmed PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 cards in this series. 460-only series subjects confirmed with brown LENOX backs Chase (trophy) Latham Marquard (pitching) Merkle (throwing) Schlei (portrait) Wiltse (portrait-cap) I expect these 3 subjects from the 460-only series will eventually be found with brown LENOX backs...... Schlei (batting) Schaefer (Washington) Seymour (portrait) Now, for the connection between the T80 cards and the T206 Brown LENOX cards...... So, here is my hypothesis: The printer at American Lithographic failed to switch from the brown ink after press runs of T80 CAIRO MONOPOL backs to black ink prior to starting a press run of T206 LENOX backs. Apparently, this mistake was caught quickly, which would explain why very few T206 brown LENOX examples exist. Instead of QA discarding these brown LENOX cards, the sheets were factory-cut, and these brown LENOX cards were shipped along with the black LENOX cards to Factory #30. And, inserted into LENOX cigarette packs. Incidentally, we have documented evidence from American Lithographic's records instructing Factory #30 (NYC) to insert a T206 LENOX card and a T80 LENOX card in the same pack of LENOX Cigarettes. How do you like that ? TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 08-08-2020 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Added Crawford to confirmed list. |
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Hi Ted, very cool theory, and I'm sure very likely the case!
One comment- the Cairo Monopol ink doesn't look very brown; almost black actually. Is it just that scan? Is it more brown in real life? Thanks! Last edited by MVSNYC; 08-07-2020 at 07:32 PM. |
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The brown Lenox ink is darker than brown old mill and brown Hindu (I think the same ink), I think similar to the T80 Lenox and Cairo Monopol
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#10
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Quote:
I have had T80 Cairo Monopol cards with a lighter Brown appearance than the one I have in this scan. However, the other factor to consider is the "boldness" of the lettering of the "Cairo Monopol" brand name, which has the effect of making it look darker. Whereas the thinner lettering of...... "CIGARETTES MILITARY SERIES ASSORTED SUBJECTS "......appears as a lighter brown script similar to the narrower T206 brown LENOX lettering. TED Z T206 Reference . Last edited by tedzan; 08-08-2020 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Added scan. |
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I have been keeping track of and doing research on the Brown Lenox
for several years now. I started a couple of threads on them but no one replied in any of them here's one from 5 years ago https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ighlight=Lenox There are four McQillans that I know of The one that sold last night in Heritage was previously in an SGC holder McQuillan 2.jpg McQuillan 2b.jpg this is the one Ryan has now McQuillan 1.jpg This is the one Michael has now Mcquillan SGC A.jpg and this is the fourth one McQuillan 4.jpg Last edited by Pat R; 08-07-2020 at 07:56 PM. |
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Hi Patrick, really cool research and scans, thanks for posting.
Last edited by MVSNYC; 08-07-2020 at 08:06 PM. |
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Quote:
Hey Ted, According to the Lenox ledger page the T80's and T206's were not inserted in packs together in the Lenox brands. Tom posted a fantastic pdf file of the journal in this thread https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=282997 The Lenox page says they "discontinued packing military pictures 10/14/10 and began packing baseball pictures Oct.15/10 1 to each box of 10" |
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Quote:
For starters, check-out this Net54 post from Mar 2009. There are more confirmations (throughout Net54) regarding T80's paired with T206's during the timeline of Jan-Feb 1911. One of these other ATC ledgers instruct Factory #30 to pair T80's and T206's in LENOX cigarette packs. I don't have the time, currently, to search into this stuff. You are good at researching, why don't you find them and post them if you will, so we will see which of us is correct on this matter ? Net54 post March 2009 Quote:
TED Z T206 Reference . |
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Have very much enjoyed the discussion, will contribute the only lenox i have currently, Mr Harry Howell
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#16
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My Lenox
__________________
Seeking T210, T211, T214 and T217 in any condition! |
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