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  #1  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:35 PM
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AbejasAsesinas AbejasAsesinas is offline
Dan
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Default Noob Question about BGS vs. PSA

Good evening,

I am currently looking for an Upper Deck 89 Craig Biggio card. The problem is that I know very little about the differences between BGS and PSA grading systems. The only 10 "Pristine" Biggio I can find is priced at $900. I can find a PSA 10 for $25. What makes the difference between a Beckett 10 and a PSA 10? I don't want to get robbed, but I do want the best card I can afford. That being said, there has to be a very substantial difference between the cards for me to spend hundreds more.

As always, thanks ahead of time for your help.

Cheers,
Dan
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Dan Davis

Looking for anything Bagwell or Biggio. Also interested in Don Wilson, JR Richard, Jimmy Wynn, Glenn Davis, Mike Scott, Ken Caminiti, Cool Papa, Paige, and DiMaggio. Framed auto's are a plus. Also, any Type 1's of Josh Gibson.

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."- Ty Cobb
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  #2  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:09 PM
novakjr novakjr is offline
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It's really hard to say what the difference is "in reality". BGS basically one upped PSA in terms of the "pristine" grade. PSA 10 should realistically equate to a 9.5 or a 10 on BGS' scale. I honestly think there isn't that much of a difference between a BGS 9.5 or a BGS 10. The difference at times can be as little as ONE of the subgrades receiving a 9.5 instead of a 10(or a 9 instead of a 9.5).. Or the difference can be at it's most extreme 4-10's vs 3-9.5s and a 9... Just make sure you stay away from the BCCG 10's..

Inversely a BGS 10 equates to nothing more than "Gem Mint" 10 in a PSA holder. So the designation of PRISTINE is semi-irrelevant, in terms of comparison to PSA.

To me the difference is often so minimal that I find it hard to really put too much emphasis on a BGS 10 over a high 9.5 or a PSA 10. Keep in mind, that with the subgrades, not all 9.5s are even valued the same.

These are just my opinions though. Hopefully someone else can chime in with a different opinion. But I personally couldn't justify spending $900, when the $25 card could realistically be just as good.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:39 AM
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freakhappy freakhappy is offline
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David is pretty much spot on with his analysis between BGS 9.5's, 10's and PSA 10's.

With BGS 9.5's and PSA 10's, there is still a little bit of wiggle room for defects, albeit a very small amount. What Beckett did was up the ante and create a Pristine grade (10) where the card is virtually perfect, or as perfect as a card can be...IMO a very smart tactic. There are cards in PSA 10 holders that would qualify for a BGS 10, but since PSA doesn't offer anything above the "Gem Mint" designation, it tops out as such. Some people will gladly pay a lot more for a Pristine card than a Gem Mint and that is their choice, but most of the time a Gem Mint will do just fine.

Not sure if the OP knew this, but SGC offers a Pristine grade as well...a 100 grade.
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Last edited by freakhappy; 01-31-2013 at 12:41 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2013, 06:42 AM
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AbejasAsesinas AbejasAsesinas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakhappy View Post
David is pretty much spot on with his analysis between BGS 9.5's, 10's and PSA 10's.

With BGS 9.5's and PSA 10's, there is still a little bit of wiggle room for defects, albeit a very small amount. What Beckett did was up the ante and create a Pristine grade (10) where the card is virtually perfect, or as perfect as a card can be...IMO a very smart tactic. There are cards in PSA 10 holders that would qualify for a BGS 10, but since PSA doesn't offer anything above the "Gem Mint" designation, it tops out as such. Some people will gladly pay a lot more for a Pristine card than a Gem Mint and that is their choice, but most of the time a Gem Mint will do just fine.

Not sure if the OP knew this, but SGC offers a Pristine grade as well...a 100 grade.
I wasn't aware of the SGC designator. To be honest, I thought PSA and BGS were the most respected of the card grading companies. Is SGC up there as well?
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Dan Davis

Looking for anything Bagwell or Biggio. Also interested in Don Wilson, JR Richard, Jimmy Wynn, Glenn Davis, Mike Scott, Ken Caminiti, Cool Papa, Paige, and DiMaggio. Framed auto's are a plus. Also, any Type 1's of Josh Gibson.

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."- Ty Cobb
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  #5  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:15 AM
cubsfan-budman cubsfan-budman is offline
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Yes. They are best known for grading vintage cards...but in my opinion SGC is the top grading company. Plus I prefer their slabs
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2013, 07:50 AM
novakjr novakjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbejasAsesinas View Post
I wasn't aware of the SGC designator. To be honest, I thought PSA and BGS were the most respected of the card grading companies. Is SGC up there as well?
Definitely. But collector preferences and values CAN be different at times depending on the era of preference..Their scale is a little different in terms of numbering, because it's on a 100 scale. Although it's not really a 100 pt scale, just 20(I could wrong on the exact number) random number designations leading up to 100. But those designations all equate to something on the 1-10 with half grades scale, and that number is usually indicated on their flips, as well as the technical grade.

Keep in mind that I'm not much of a graded guy, and really only buy graded stuff when it feels like a deal.. But these are my observations..

BGS seems to be more popular amongst modern cards, but PSA is pretty much right there. the PRISTINE pretty much being the difference. Although, I can't verify how many collectors really put too much stock in the difference. SGC Pristine carries some extra weight, but not I'm not really up on trends to say how they compare in value. BGS's holders look great on modern cards.. The Gold flips that they go to on 9.5 and 10s, really seem to stand out.. They are thick as hell though.

PSA's registry sets them up as the most popular for cards from most era's..Once you get past a certain point in age, BGS changes to BVG, and you can for the most part forget about PRISTINE anyways. PSAs slabs and flips seem to be more "standard"(or basic) in terms of size and appearance.

SGC seems to be a bit of a sleeper. Probably not as well known outside of the hobby, so newbies tend to flock to psa or bgs.. But SGC is VERY well respected within the hobby, in many cases above PSA or BGS/BVG. And their slabs are extremely nice looking. Although that's really just a personal opinion. They are a little wider though.

Last edited by novakjr; 01-31-2013 at 07:51 AM.
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  #7  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:10 AM
ALR-bishop ALR-bishop is offline
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Default Biggio

Dan---you should be the best judge of the Biggio card you want in your collection. Don't let some minion in a grading company tell you which one you like best.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:34 AM
novakjr novakjr is offline
David Nova.kovich Jr.
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Also, is there any specific reason you're targeting the '89 UD Biggio?

The '88 score and fleer updates may hold up better over time. With preference towards the score as the higher end card. Again, that's just a personal preference, based on how I think the XRC/RC game will eventually play out..

Last edited by novakjr; 01-31-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2013, 04:36 PM
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AbejasAsesinas AbejasAsesinas is offline
Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
Dan---you should be the best judge of the Biggio card you want in your collection. Don't let some minion in a grading company tell you which one you like best.
Good point. Thanks for the input.
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Dan Davis

Looking for anything Bagwell or Biggio. Also interested in Don Wilson, JR Richard, Jimmy Wynn, Glenn Davis, Mike Scott, Ken Caminiti, Cool Papa, Paige, and DiMaggio. Framed auto's are a plus. Also, any Type 1's of Josh Gibson.

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."- Ty Cobb
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  #10  
Old 01-31-2013, 04:37 PM
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AbejasAsesinas AbejasAsesinas is offline
Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novakjr View Post
Also, is there any specific reason you're targeting the '89 UD Biggio?

The '88 score and fleer updates may hold up better over time. With preference towards the score as the higher end card. Again, that's just a personal preference, based on how I think the XRC/RC game will eventually play out..
I guess my choice reflects a personal preference from my childhood. Myself and my friends always like UD and SC over Topps, Fleer, Donruss, and the like.

That being said, I plan on getting as many Biggio cards as I can over time.
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Dan Davis

Looking for anything Bagwell or Biggio. Also interested in Don Wilson, JR Richard, Jimmy Wynn, Glenn Davis, Mike Scott, Ken Caminiti, Cool Papa, Paige, and DiMaggio. Framed auto's are a plus. Also, any Type 1's of Josh Gibson.

"I had to fight all my life to survive. They were all against me, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."- Ty Cobb
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2013, 08:51 PM
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Most likely you would need the Hubbell Telescope to tell the difference between the two.
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  #12  
Old 02-17-2013, 03:36 PM
pepis pepis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbejasAsesinas View Post
I guess my choice reflects a personal preference from my childhood. Myself and my friends always like UD and SC over Topps, Fleer, Donruss, and the like.

That being said, I plan on getting as many Biggio cards as I can over time.
Dan here are a couple of Bagwells you may want if you lmk all you need to do
is send a SASE.
can't uplode pics i'll try later,,, got one pic up
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File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2013-02-17 at 4.14.51 PM.jpg (13.4 KB, 62 views)

Last edited by pepis; 02-17-2013 at 05:17 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2013, 11:38 PM
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the 'stache the 'stache is offline
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Dan, that's not a noob question at all.

It's really a racket, if you ask me. If you could take the BGS 10 and a BGS 9.5 with all 9.5 subs out of the slabs, set them side by side, and ask even the most discerning baseball card enthusiast which was better, they couldn't tell the difference without high magnification. The 10 grade may carry a premium, but it's not worth the absurd amount of markup. A 9.5 with all 9.5/10 subs is every bit as nice, and much more affordable.

To me, somebody that spends that much on a BGS 10 is doing the "hey, look at how much money I can blow based on somebody else's opinion" thing. Congratulations on spending an extra $800 on your card because the left border is 1/32nd of an inch thicker than the exact same card with a 9.5 grade! You're a master of the universe!!!!!
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Last edited by the 'stache; 02-17-2013 at 11:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-22-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbejasAsesinas View Post
That being said, I plan on getting as many Biggio cards as I can over time.
In my humble opinion, you could probably buy large lots of Biggio cards ungraded (raw) at very inexpensive prices. Will they be "10"'s? Probably not. If you look hard though, I'm sure there are many auctions on ebay with large lots of Biggio cards in nice shape. If quantity is your goal, buying raw may be an option to consider. Good luck in your quest!

Rob
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2013, 11:01 AM
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sdkammeyer sdkammeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger8mush View Post
In my humble opinion, you could probably buy large lots of Biggio cards ungraded (raw) at very inexpensive prices. Will they be "10"'s?
I was just going to say the same thing.... i probably have 20 of these that literally went straight from packs into a box and havent been touched since '89. Could be a bunch of 9's and maybe a 10?? who knows .... but if you want them, feel free to pm me.
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