T206 Young

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Posted By: Steve

"...this board is different than I thought" -How stereotypical.

Has anyone seen my Snickers bar?

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Posted By: leon

I would respectfully disagree. The statement IS factually correct but NOT legally correct. I am very aware that oral contracts can be binding in most cases. (maybe not real estate and a few other instances....at least that's what Judge Judy says)

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Posted By: Jamie

Thank you.... you are the first person who understands what happened and how it went down... it was more than a verbal agreement when I sent money through paypal.. and the seller held on to my money for 20 hours...
anyway good to know that at least one person sees it through my eyes.

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Posted By: Jamie

ps.... the offer $$ amount was thrown at ME buy the seller.. i was the one that agreed to his price.. not the other way around...

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Posted By: PC

Jamie -- not only do I agree with you, but I also think the interference described in this thread constitutes tortious interference with your binding contract with the seller.

However, clearly, this is not a case that anyone is going to (or probably should) pursue.

You're 100% in the right here.

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Posted By: Jamie

You hear that sean.. im suing for $350.. $300 for losses on the card and $50 for damages to my wall after I punched a hole in it...

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Posted By: MVSNYC

well, it looks like you guys went thru a full range of emotions over this card, this subject and this thread...

all i can say is...looks like i'll need to get my stack of 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt cards graded before i sell them on eBay...



and to answer someone's question above...

collectors pay a huge premium for drastic miscuts & color errors, not only becasue they are very rare, but more so because they're simply cool looking!

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Posted By: boxingcardman

If the auction was already pulled by Ebay and Jamie offered to buy the card, they reached a deal, Jamie paid, and someone then came along and interfered with the deal, he has a right to be pissed. It isn't like he offered some rube ten bucks for the card; $300 is below market but a substantial enough sum to pass muster. FWIW, if it was local to me and I really wanted that card (if I was an error collector and just dying to own it) I might even file a specific performance case and force the seller to sell me the card for the agreed price or go to the expense of hiring a lawyer to fight me.

As far as errors go, there are two factors that make them interesting to me: (1) they are rare, and (2) they show you something about how these little works of art were made. I was hooked when I pulled a blank-backed Jim Fregosi card from a pack back in 1971 (still have it, BTW). The nicest part is that a lot of collectors hate printing errors and they are often sold in junk bins at shows.

The Young resulted from the sheet being fed into the press backwards one side or the other. That's why the back is upside down and displaced. I have some similar error cards from the 1948 Leaf set. You can see them at my site: http://imageevent.com/exhibitman/freaksandgeeks

On the big 13: I get 12 of them but 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt?




Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Tortuous interference with contractual relations.


Jamie should have kept quiet until he got the card.

Sean should not have contacted the seller.

The seller should have honored the sale.

And eBay should have been able to recover for the fees they lost.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Just in case anyone ever doubted what I always say: aren't lawyers great????

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Posted By: John

Adam I disagree a bit with you there, but 99% time I’m right there with you buddy and i do understand your point.

However the other side of this coin which I think is valid is Jamie posted bragging about working an off ebay deal with a seller which was far from done. When others who were interested in the item realized that the seller was entertaining off eBay offers they submitted theirs,seeing as their watching and snipes were no longer in the running. Seems fair to me, not good for Jamie and a bummer I can see from his point of view.

Lesson learned I would think for Jamie.

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Posted By: Jamie

I only started talking about the sale after my money was sent to the buyer... At that point I like every other buy would have considered the sale complete..... and innapropriate for other buyers to contact the seller.. as money was exchanged.... why you feel that others buyers had the right to go and try to offer more money after I paid is beyond me.. I feel like im in a bad twilightzone show.... ... I guess the lesson i learned is even a mailman can steal your card so until Im holding it in my hand.. I wont mention a thing from now on in...

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Posted By: Jamie

the only thing that was far from done about my deal.. was that it didnt ship yet... price agreed on.. money sent... "thank you's" said.....

edited to say... John please tell me at this point you at least understand that the ebay page was DOWN before I even started that thread yesterday.... so your auction sniper sob story is worth nothing.. there was no auction ebay pulled the listing due to it being a raw card.. .. having my own listing pulled I contacted the seller to see what he was doing with the card... why do you refuse to get that?

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Posted By: PC

Jamie's deal was done as soon as he accepted the seller's offer for $300. At that point there was a binding contract. Anything after that -- a failure to pay by Jamie, or a failure to deliver by the seller -- is a breach. There is no grey area here. If Jamie were so inclined, he could force the seller to complete the transaction (as Adam pointed out), particularly since this card is unique.

And anyone emailing the seller AFTER they knew a deal was made, seeking to break the deal by making a better offer, has tortiously interfered with that contract.

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Posted By: Jamie

Well said... I have no card and will have to dog fight it out like everybody else in 3 weeks.. but still well said...

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Posted By: John

Jamie if the above is the case, perhaps people should have backed off etc.

But in their defense you certainly didn't make it seem that way can’t say I find them any more at fault or wrong than what you did. Also the string of events has changed quite a bit from the posts you deleted the other night…

However today when you emailed me insinuating that I was the one of your potential suspects who offered the seller money etc. I think you were way out of line; the first I had ever heard or seen of this card was via your post enough said I haven’t even seen the original eBay auction…LOL

I don’t like off eBay deals I think they are unfair to the seller and the folks who play by the rules. You can paint any shades of gray around them that you want their just not my cup of tea and when you get into these types of deals these things happen that’s why I avoid them.

Look we have shook hands via web and I accepted your apology and I’m trying to be nice here, but if you’re looking for sympathy on this you’re barking up the wrong tree sorry Jamie.

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Posted By: John

PC "has tortiously interfered with that contract"

Yawn...I wonder super law genius how eBay would feel about the off eBay deal less thier fees PC, since were on the Matlock train here??

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Posted By: DMcD

"What Tzu Talkin' 'Bout Willis?"
Now that was funny!

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Posted By: T206Collector

I think a simple email to a seller is appropriate as such: "please do not end your auction early. If you do, please give me a chance to beat any off-line offers."

When a seller engages you to sell offline, that's the same as any negotiation on Net54 or any other cyber realm -- caveat emptor.

If the seller and the buyer reach agreement, it is at least bad form for the seller to reneg or for a third party to interfere, with knowledge of the prior deal.

The fact that it started on ebay is entirely besides the point. The decision to go offline is between the seller and ebay. The buyer has no contract with ebay.

Here, Jamie likely had a binding contract with the seller, who breached the deal--perhaps as the result of tortious interference.

And, to add insult to injury, Jamie is now hearing it from the usual chorus of those who dislike off ebay deals.

I've been there and it is pretty annoying for a number of reasons.


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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

I remember way back when and we used to collect baseball card for our pleasure, this thread and others like it. have given me a new perspective on this HOBBY.

Mr. Dan Mckee, I thank you for the wonderful gift in the mail today and for you and all others that I have seen not act like childish, spoiled children, anything that I have is yours if you should treat it as I do, as a caretaker of history.

Sorry, but threads like this make me tend to rethink me collecting habits.

Rawn

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Posted By: Jamie

John.. just wanted people to stop saying i got the seller to end his auction early....maybe the only sympathy that would be nice would be when the card goes up in 3 or 4 weeks.. everyone from here has a light bulb that pops up.. going "oh yea that jamie kid really wanted this card... Ill back off this auction"...

That last part might be the funniest joke all day as the card now has a super bullseye on it.. enjoy

[IMG][/IMG]

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Posted By: John

Cliff notes here…

You were told rough market value, you paid far less.

You made it look as you had just made an offer during the thread poor form, which you deleted last night.

You spoke to soon on public forum alerted other collectors who in turn offered more money than you once you tipped them off.

Wrong of them to do so perhaps your deal was farther done than other people who have done this in the past,I’ll give you that but it’s a free world you cant control folks.

Now you've ended up tipping off a seller to the fact that he had a card worth more than $300, seller has decided not to leave money on table and most likely are not a fan of you.

Then you went on a rant today as the poor victim.

The real victim here that has been avoided is the seller who will now get a fair shake on this card.

You’re mad at yourself and it’s everyone’s fault but yours and you can’t understand why everyone here is not group hugging you.

You still have a chance to get this card, just now not at a stupid low price, which bums you out understandably so.

At the end of the day you have shown other collectors… what is it you said earlier in an email to me? Oh that’s right…”how you roll”

End of Story

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Posted By: Jamie

john wtf is ur deal.. I cant wait for crap like this to happen to you and then act like a *** dam pr*** to you..enjoy communisim I hear its coming back

edited a little profanity

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Ebay gave the auction the boot; the seller didn't end it to make a deal. Ebay decided not to let it run, so it gets nothing and deservedly so.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

Going with Wonka on this. Do not call out a big dog if you cannot get off the steps with the puppies. NEVER brag about the conquest, only look forward to the next.

Rawn

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Posted By: T206Collector

Jamie,

Been there man. Really hard to talk to Wonka when he writes with such sarcasm and attitude.

"Yawn"

"Super legal genius"

"How you roll"

Quoting from your private emails.

Etc.

Really tough. Just hang in there . There are a lot of supporters that just don't want Captain Sarcasmo to go off on them, as I'm sure he will now on me.

(Braces self from torrent of attitude from Wonka)



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: John

Adam good point no fees for eBay...

Jamie LOL, aren't you the same guy who emailed me earlier today blaming me for killing your sale, what was I guilty off disagreeing with you on how this went down so that makes me a suspect to you to flood my inbox with the F-bomb...

"when the card goes up in 3 or 4 weeks.. everyone from here has a light bulb that pops up.. going "oh yea that jamie kid really wanted this card... Ill back off this auction"

Yeah right you should also say it's ok because it's all I really collect anymore that one also works really well, people have real soft spot for that one.

As for waiting for this to happen to me don’t hold your breath. Communism had nothing to do with your loss on this card, capitalism did however because somebody offered more $$$, and the only reason they got the chance to do so was because you tipped them off.

Sorry but no sympathy here from me especially after your emails to me today.

Sorry Jamie that’s “JUST HOW I ROLL” sound familiar.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I think Jamie's biggest mistake here is treading on to Wonka's photo-shop turf. Major no-no.

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

I thought this was taken care of many posts ago. Is this just a forum for grown men to act like kids? I'm calling my mom to beat up many moms out there.

Rawn

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Posted By: jamie

wonka whats wrong did someone touch the chocolate waterfall? i know your not supposed to do that

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Posted By: T206Collector

LOL

I tried to interject a little oompa loompa earlier in the prior thread--but it got locked!

Oh well.

Only Lichtman seemed to catch it, but he got it all wrong. Nothing self-pitying about it.


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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: John

Nah not going to get on you Paul besides everyone here knows how smart you are you've only told us every other waking second, I'm no match for you.

Here I'll save you the effort...wow that Paul is so smart...

Paul was super smart when he bought this (just in case you guys missed it) when I think smart I think...




I never thought I would say this Paul but I long for the days when you posted your Mathewson card every other second.At least then you’re were just mildly annoying now your annoying and obnoxious congrats that’s a big leap.


www.CaptainSarcasmo.com Join us where we discuss how smart Paul is, and blog about the same thing over and over.

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Posted By: Rawn Hill

Let it go will ya! Jamie please, I don't know you or anyone on here, but hell, if you want to have it out, I will fly you to meet.

Rawn

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Posted By: jamie

ok im done now... dooopidy dooo

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Posted By: leon

from the sidelines it's mildly entertaining.....

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Posted By: John

I will toss in the towel too Jamie agree to disagree?

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Posted By: jamie

agree to disagree it is... now who else can we focus our anger and sarcasm on?

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Posted By: T206Collector

Captain Sarcasmo Strikes Again!

(Insert photo of gene wilder with wonka hat and super hero costume)

Well done, old chap. Well done. What else you got besides my collecting habits and posting frequency? Cuz, "yawn" I'm tired of hearing about it.

Who made you the judge of what is appropriate to post and talk about...

...And what frequency to talk about it?


Why do you choose?

Seriously.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I love this thread. Can I have more?

-Al

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Posted By: John

You just cant leave well enough alone guy. Anger??

Would you care to share your emails you sent me today to me out of the blue??? LOL

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Posted By: leon

politics or religion?

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Posted By: John

"Well done, old chap. Well done. What else you got besides my collecting habits and posting frequency? Cuz, "yawn" I'm tired of hearing about it."

So are we Paul...so are we...that's kind of the whole point.

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Posted By: T206Collector

You know what I'm tired of seeing? My favorite childhood movie bastardized in every post you write.

Notwithstanding my clearly superior intellect -- as you conceded above -- I am no match for... the great.... SARCASMO!



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see signed pre-war card galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: jamie

now that was funny... its good to get a laugh in.. I announce my truce... buyers beware post too early and you can loose your deal too...

Other than that it will be a long time before I buy a wonka candy product again.. g'night

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Posted By: T206Collector

Have a good night.

Oh, and I think I am going to start a Wonkaticket blog. Might boost traffic. I'm even bored by my own collection.



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see my Wonkaticket blog and more!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, while Mr. Hawking may roll pretty well, I'm not sure he's the shrewdest of card collectors. I happen to know that he purchased a T206 Matty portrait that did not present that well.

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Posted By: Eric B

Ebay ended the auction on their own. Therefore they are not entitled to the fees.

A deal was struck and payment made. The seller has reneged and if this went to court the would be required to complete the deal, unless the card was sold to someone else. If that's the case, the damages would not be $300, they would be the difference between $300 and the eventual purchase price ($700 if it sells for $1,000). But the seller would be liable for the damages.

I liken the person who emailed the seller to those who email BST buyers and sellers after the fact to say they got ripped off. Those folks feel good about themselves through the misery of others.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I don't understand the problem Wonka has with Jamie's deal for the Young card. I followed the entire thread yesterday and am just now catching up here and I don't get it....Ebay ended the auction, Jamie contacts the seller, seller offers to sell Young for $300, Jamie accepts and sends money, Seller reneges on deal after contacted by others....only in Bizarro World is Jamie the bad guy in my opinion.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...more people disagree with you -- how is that even possible?



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see a nice assortment of signed pre-war cards!

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Posted By: judson hamlin

I hear Hawking's been hangin' with Al Gore and Gary Gygax, so you just can't tell with him.