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#1
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: MikeU
Kevin, |
#2
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
This would be a great idea if Kevin did not want to get any business. Obviously dealers would not give a collector a return privlege if this happened as they would never be able to sell the card. |
#3
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Steve Murray
Isn't that the idea? Keep the bad cards out of the market. |
#4
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Joe D.
it would put Peter out of business. |
#5
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: MikeU
"This would be a great idea if Kevin did not want to get any business. Obviously dealers would not give a collector a return privlege if this happened as they would never be able to sell the card." |
#6
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Anonymous
Mike, |
#7
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Steve Murray
"And once again just because Kevin may disagree with a grading service is no indication he is right." |
#8
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Rick McQuillan
Mike, you hit the nail on the head. I agree with you completely. |
#9
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: MikeU
It all depends on how Kevin wants to market his company. |
#10
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Mike, |
#11
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: MikeU
"Mike, |
#12
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Mike, |
#13
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Marc S.
I prefer higher-grade cards to lower-grade ones, and my current collecting interests lie primarily in pre-war and 19th century rather than modern. Alterations are a big problem in the hobby, I know and understand that. And I have a good deal of money tied up in my collection. |
#14
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Lee Behrens
I think that Mike's idea is the right idea. There is pro's and con's to what Kevin is offering and if he does not publish on the site than it is a dishonest business benefiting only the submitter. If the submitter does not like it, heck he can just resubmit it to the grading company that gave the orignal grade. |
#15
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Lee, |
#16
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Matt
Jim - couldn't your same argument be made regarding the advent of the slabbing era? No dealer would want to submit a card for slabbing if the end result could be that the card was deemed a reproduction or trimmed? But as we know that logic did not hold then. |
#17
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Lee Behrens
So, Kevin's service would only benefit the person putting paying for Kevin's services and if Kevin feels it's altered then what you are saying is that it is alright for them to go sell the card without any mention of Kevin's findings. |
#18
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Lee Behrens
Mark S., |
#19
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Carrying this over from the other thread that was locked. As you recall, I questioned Kevin's credentials, his documented experience and the source of his expertise: |
#20
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Brian
Writing a business plan on a public message board isn't a recipe for success. |
#21
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: MikeU
Jim, |
#22
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Matt, |
#23
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: peter chao
It was mentioned earlier...Kevin consider buying out or merging with GAI. At this time buying them out would be relatively inexpensive. It probably would require no more than a minimal investment. Pay for their business license, back rent, and a few extra dollars for what remains of their goodwill. |
#24
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: G. Maines
Consultants are commonly employed, and most provide their services confidentially. Medical, Legal, Technical. Professional, and other experts are routine in the considerations of many. |
#25
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Steve
Kevin/Jim, Your ideas are a positive step though controversial with collectors. |
#26
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Mike, |
#27
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Ahhhh....now I understand why no one comes forth with any evidence of these altered cards. They are reserving their right to recirculate the card back into the hobby at a maximum profit. |
#28
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Bob
<<<All that said, these repeated discussions sadden me. If I can't either a) educate myself to some limited degree for becoming comfortable with cards or b) take a leap of faith and trust the dealers/collectors with whom I trade and do business, then the hobby lacks that pizazz that made me want to collect again. |
#29
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: cmoking
A list of the certs are almost useless when companies like Memory Lane can get Joe Orlando to change them for them in a deceptive manner. |
#30
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Kevin Sacuier
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#31
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimB
Personally, I have not seen a substantial reason to trust Kevin Saucier's opinion above SGC's. He seems to be a reasonably competent *card doctor*, though we do not know the limits of his abilities in that regard. But that does not necessarily mean that he is going to be any better at detecting alterations than the graders at SGC or PSA. They get trained to look for the same things he knows about. He could not even get a job with PSA or GAI, correct? He claims to have gotten some types of alterations past the grading companies (though I do not remember seeing any examples). But if these sorts of alterations are undetectable, there is no reason to think he would catch them either if performed by somebody else. Getting something by the graders does not equate with an ability to detect alteration. I do not see the advantage of complicating the situation here. |
#32
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Kevin, |
#33
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Jim B, you said it exactly how I would have if I was as eloquent as you. |
#34
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Dan, |
#35
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Isn't starting a website called AlteredCards.com considered "going into business"? I'm failing to see how this helps clean up the hobby if none of Kevin's work will be reported to anyone but the submitters. |
#36
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Corey R. Shanus
"So far I am unimpressed with any efforts to clean up the hobby." |
#37
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: barrysloate
This is beginning to look like a problem without a solution. There are too many different opinions regarding how any card can objectively be deemed unaltered and original. |
#38
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Matt
I would just suggest further, even if Kevin would have a registry of rejected slabs, the slab owners would probably just pop the cards out and resubmit to get a new slab #. |
#39
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Barry, |
#40
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Greg, |
#41
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: barrysloate
Greg- that's actually a very fair point, as I feel very comfortable with my grading service of choice, SGC, and believe they get it right with tremendous frequency. |
#42
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Sean C
that this is actually be considered a viable business idea, or that there are that many altered cards in slabs that it might actually be successful. |
#43
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: G. Maines
unlike the rest of us. |
#44
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Sean, |
#45
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Stay tuned next week for Kevin's website launch. Will have endorsements from Rob Lifson, Mike Baker, Rich Mueller among others. |
#46
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Jim, you have said many times that you won't work with dealers/auction houses that are unwilling to help clean up the hobby so if a dealer won't sell you a card for fear it may end up on a list then aren't they impeding the effort at cleaning up the hobby? |
#47
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: davidcycleback
While one can identify obvious or certain categories of problems and give a quick opinion (ala PSA/DNA Quick Opinion) about trimming, authenticity and such (Which in and of itself can be considered a useful service), you can't adequately examine a card without removing the card from the holder. Giving a final seal of approval to a card that hasn't been examined raw is dubious. You can't see everything when it's holdered only in part because, whether glass or plastic, holders distort light. Even if the holder causes no distortion, you won't know this until the card is removed. |
#48
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: JimCrandell
Dan, |
#49
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Barry, |
#50
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Kevin Saucier - Adding Value
Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Jim, |
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