Anonymity- should it be allowed ?

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Posted By: leonl

Hey Folks,
With some recent moderating that I haven't really enjoyed doing I thought I would pose a quick question and get some feedback. Since a lot of it has to do with the question of remaining anonymous and posting.... Should anonymous posting be allowed? The same rules will continue, about non-confrontational anonymous posts being allowed, for now, but I feel this is an appropriate question. (and a large percentage of problems come from anonymous posters)....regards

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Posted By: steve k

Anonymous posters should not be allowed. It's not like this is Alcoholics Anonymous here or something like that. This will maybe keep some of the high school and fraternity pranksters off the board.

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Posted By: Rob

Absolutely not.

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Posted By: DJ

I think they should be banned if they cause trouble or there's an obvious underlying motive.

Vikes has since moved to the Game Used Forum to 'Bushing-bash' and his long rants are unreadable and fail to enlighten me because of his anonymity.

DJ

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Unless you don't have the courage of your convictions, why would you need to be cloaked in anonymity?

No name = no post.

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Posted By: Dan

The person whom writes their thoughts down should have the courage to indicate who they actually are, thus adding validity to what they are saying. Now, that being said, anyone can get a N54 user name and password and hide behind that name and password without truly identifying who they "really" are. Did that make sense? I just confused myself, I think.

My thought - the anonymous post should not be allowed.

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Posted By: barry arnold

You have a difficult job, Leon.
Thanks for doing it, and for doing it so well.

I think it is better to keep those who wish to remain anonymous off
the board.
If they truly wish anonymity,then being on a collegial board is just
not the right home.

In my experience, anonymity tends to have some measure of precipitous
volatility to it which often gives way to unnecessary and unwarranted
confrontation.
This board is for knowledge,camaraderie,fun,and reminiscences---
a great place to be!!! A place where it is quite proper and
enjoyable to say ones name--not a very high admissions price methinks.

all the best

Barry Arnold

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Posted By: Judge Dred

What is the definition of an anonymous poster or post?

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Posted By: DJ

Good Question Dread!

Do we have to fax in our birth certificates?

DJ

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Posted By: vetekbob

I agree that there should be no anonymous postings allowed.

basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: leonl

Anonymity as I am thinking of it would be to post your first and last name. That would be the only real way to avoid anonymity. I think everyone knows I am Leon Luckey...no big deal. If we allow only a first name I am not sure we have cured the issue, if there is one. Good responses so far.. regards

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Posted By: barry arnold

remembering barry sloate's very helpful comments re: grammar,etc.,
take a look at your first 2 sentences in your last thread.

you're still the best.


regards

Barry Arnold

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Posted By: Mark Holt

There are folks who have a security concern about having a number of people know they have lots of dollars worth of cards. They participate in various forums using a screen name that becomes pretty well known among posters but still have the thought that their real name and location is somewhat secure.

You could require first and last names and their is nothing to stop someone from creating names for this board. As was previously asked, 'what next - birth certificates required?' How about social security numbers?

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Posted By: vetekbob

I have no problem at all in posting my first and last name for log-in purposes. I dont see it as an issue security wise or otherwise for that matter. It was also help prevent someone trying to pose as someone else when making post I would think. I like the idea of putting your money where you mouth is so to speak and anything that helps the moderator to make sure the forum is a good place with less hassles and issues is a good thing in my book.

basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Texas Ted

If there is a requirement to post both first and last name, you might see the death of the board. Think of what happened to Ben. I'm not sure I want to be a target of thieves by letting entire world know my first and last name and what I might have in a collection. It just invites trouble.

Having said that, I am totally against anonymous postings also. They are the same as "unnamed sources in the news". If somebody does not take responsibility for saying it, it could well be a fabrication of the press. The solution, to my mind, is that the monitor dude, or somebody needs access to the identities of the posters, but not necessarily the whole world. If people know that they can be held accountable by slanderous statements perhaps they will be reluctant to make them.

So some identifier be it a first, or last, a total name or a moniker (as long as the moderator knows them all) as well as an email link, would be fine with me. The final decision on how much info to give should rest with the poster.

Texas Ted
Starting my third attempt at a second childhood.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I think what Elliot used to do was require anons to at least reveal themselves to himself, but not to the board if security of their collections is an issue.

I understand wanting to keep a low profile to prevent possible theft, but then posting to a public forum sort of defeats the whole low profile argument. I would also hope that people already have security measures in place to protect their collections. Local friends and family are more of a threat to your collection than lurkers on an internet forum.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Tony Danza

Leon,

I have nothing to hide but I think it would be a huge headache for you Leon and the board.

New members wouldn't know this and people could still have anonymous names as people would suddenly come out of the woodwork with names like :John Smith, Ed Stack, Leon Durham and other made up names.

I honestly think that outside a few members, this real hasn't been a problem at all and if it becomes a problem, you can deal with the particulars when they arise.

I don't think this Forum is 'mean-spirited' and the debates have gotten so ugly that this is necessary. This isn't the autograph or Game Used business where there is a lot more fraud and a lot of 'ugly' opinions with no real correct answer.

DJ



Edit: P.S Is this Board Broken? Why Does It Need To Be Fixed?

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Posted By: Rob

Anonymity will add a chaotic element to this otherwise nicely-run and orderly board. If you add an anonymity option, you may then have to add a few 'police' to your staff. I say this from experience.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I don't like anonymity and in honor of that I am using my full name from now on instead of PASJD.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I think identity should be required if a poster is making accusations, being confrontational or otherwise stealing precious board oxygen. If the posts are harmless and not frequent, it's not a big deal to me.

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Posted By: leonl

If security concerns are an issue would it be too much to ask everyone that posts to make themselves known to the moderator? Would that be a solution? regards

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If a poster makes him or herself known to you, leon, so as to be allowed to post, that's fine. Though I would want that to be the infrequent, special case.

A lot of this is being polite having a community where people know each other. It used to be the case that someone in the chat room would refuse to give up his name when asked (I don't know why the need for stealth. Spend five minutes there and you will know that state secrets aren't being exchanged). In the chat room, refusing to state one's name when asked is akin to going to someone's house for dinner and refusing to say your name. It's just plain rude.

A rule of thumb for potential posters should be that, if you have a huge problem revealing your identity on this public board, then don't post. It's only a little board about baseball cards. You won't die or have your insurance rates doubled if you don't post on this board.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Revealing yourself only to Leon should be special case only, as he said. As I mentioned before, if your desire is a for a low profile, then posting to a public board goes against the desire for a low profile.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Glenn

I wonder what Ben thinks about this, particularly regarding the security issue of having to reveal one's name.

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Posted By: John

If someone is going to give an a anonymous first name couldn’t they give you or sign up under a anonymous first and last name too (example John Smith) or am I missing something.

I'm not real keen on giving out my first and last name on the internet, it may be silly but I think the avg. person knowing me as John or Wonkaticket is good enough for a chat board on baseball cards.

Just my thoughts.

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

Can't think of any reason why I would need to leave an anonymous post, other than being to lazy to login.

No Name-No Post!

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Posted By: vetekbob

I dont see how posting ones name in order to login is a great security issue unless you post personal information about yourself as well on the board. Giving ones name alone is not a security breach if you will. It does become an issue if you share your name as well as where you live and what kind of collection you have in an open forum. Granted one should be careful in what they say and share on an open forum as you never know who is watching and reading posts. Lets think about this for a moment, those of us who are registered users of Ebay and Paypal as well have the very information listed on Ebay that millions of people can see and read with just a few clicks of the mouse. If someone wanted to track what other Ebay users bid on and win they can do so very easily as we all know and yet most dont think about those kind of things. Believe me if someone wanted to do background checks on us its not hard at all to do on the net provided they know more than your name and thats the key. I think we need to try and not get too paranoid here.

basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Ben

I like to think that our first and last names are safe within the friendly confines of the forum. I've always posted using only my first name, not because I'm uncomfortable revealing my last name, but just because there are no other Bens that post here. That being said, this forum is not what it used to be. There's about 10x more traffic now then there was a few years ago, which means there are many, many more eyes reading over your posts and perhaps learning something about you. So, one would be foolish to not at least be somewhat cautious about revealing personal info.

Also, one should also consider things like personal webpages, and ebay "about me" pages as potential avenues for a breach of personal security. In light of my unfortunate situation, I've decided to shut down both of mine.

To address Leon's initial inquiry: I do not think anonymous posting should be allowed, EVER, regardless of the context of the post. Accountability for one's words is of utmost importance here I think. Don't know if anyone noticed, but I served as co-moderator (along with Elliot) for the forum when Bill was in charge. For the majority of that time, anonymous posting was fair game and consequently, it was quite often taken advantage of. One guy, for example, would love to bring up huge numbers of 3 year old posts by replying at the bottom with a single word, thereby screwing with the the whole order of the forum. While deleting his posts was possible, it was an annoyance I'm sure the current moderators would rather not deal with. It hass been said plenty of times before, but the bottom line is that if you'd like to enjoy reading the forum and remain anonymous, that's FINE. But as long as you choose to post here, that priviledge must be met with some degree of accountability.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Is it ok to post with just a first name? Are we to use both first and last names? What is the criteria for being considered someone that posts with anonymity?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If people know who you are, you aren't anonymous. Many of us use nicknames or eBay ids or first names and are not anymous to members on this board.

This issue is when folks like Vikes066 takes over a board and is more than happy to reveal to the world others' full names while accusing them of this or that, but is unwilling to reveal his own name.

My board rule would be if you can't disclose your own name to the board, you can't disclose others' names either. In other words, if you want to accuse this or that dealer of this or that, you have start by posting your full name.

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Posted By: Chris Mcalister

I LIKE THIS BOARD. IT HAS A WEALTH OF INFORMATION. IT MAKES FOR INTERESTING READING AT TIMES. I DON'T LIKE CONFRONTATION AND FEEL THIS BOARD SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR SUCH. THERE ARE FUNNY POST AND OTHER POST THAT ARE JUST SHY OF GETTING INTO THE RING. I THINK IT WAS BEST PUT,( AND I'M NOT SURE BY WHO)THAT ANYONE OVER THE AGE OF TEN WHO COLLECTS CARDS PROBABLY NEVER GREW UP. ME INCLUDED.
SINCERELY, J.C. MCALISTER A.K.A CHRIS MCALISTER, A.K.A jmcalist, A.K.A JAMES MCALISTER

P.S. DAVID YOUR WEB SITE IS REALLY COOL.

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Posted By: JimB

Maybe some people just like to keep a low profile. I say, "No harm, no foul." If they are not causing problems, what is the big deal?
JimB (Jim Blumenthal)

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Posted By: Elliot

I'm with Jim B. ... But as soon as a person wants to make a post with the least bit of controversy the anonymity has to be gone. I think by allowing anonymous posts you encourage lurkers to get involved, which i believe is a good idea.

Also, Jay is correct. I used to allow anonymous posters as long as they identified themselves to me. I think it worked well, and i think that eventually each of these posters "outed" themselves.

Leon, the other recommendation i would give is to just delete the controversial anonymous posts immediately. Do not give them time to identify themselves to you and/or the board. If they want, after identified, they can repost. Otherwise you let the anonymous poster gets his wish, which is to have a lot of people read his controversial statement.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Here's a novel idea: use your business address and telephone for the log in. That's what I do.

Reminds me of an actor client I had who was so afraid of being bothered that he would change cell #'s, go around in hat and glasses, etc., and in fact no one recognized him anyway because he wasn't that big of a deal. He even snubbed my family at the mall because he wanted to slink by.

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

Anonymous posters should be disallowed. There is a long list of regulars who do not really need to post their real names if they don't want to. Doesn't matter to me either way. Most controversy and stupid a$$ posts are contributed by losers afraid to show their faces.

Bill

"The beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one more for dessert"

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Posted By: Andy Baran

I've always thought that posters should have to use their full names, both on the board and in the chat room. It's kind of wierd when you are responding to just a set of initials or a nickname. Also, I don't buy the security excuse. It seems to me that most (if not all) of the collectors with the most valuable collections are already using their full names.

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Posted By: al davis

anonymous posting should not be allowed. although lurkers might be less inclined to join in, overall it would preserve the integrity of the board for posters to be required to identify themselves. after all, we would only be asking for names, not social security numbers.

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Posted By: leon

Al Davis would you please email me at lluckey@amherst1.com so we can chat offline for a minute? Thanks.....

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Posted By: Rich Klein

You know, I'm a firm believer in people IDing themselves. However, it seems to me that many of the issues brought up by the anon posters have had major effects on both the board as well as the buisness. We have learned a lot we would not have known otherwise.
One suggestion I would support is that sometimes a writer wants to post something "controversial" but may not want his/her name out there as the poster so if that person writes to Leon in advance and then explains why they want to post ANON it is a matter cleared by Leon.
So, while in a perfect world we all should ID ourselves, in reality --- sometimes being an ANON (in this case, as long as Leon knows about the post and the poster in advance) works for the common good

Rich

P.S. Trust me in this computer world, there are no secrets for a long term

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Posted By: T206Collector

...why I prefer to use T206Collector as my name. If you want to e-mail me, you can always click on the link and do so. Beyond that, why anyone would actually want to share their real names (or any other personal identifying information) on a cyberspace chatboard is beyond me. If computer whizzes want to find my ISP address and ping me to locate my general whereabouts, so be it. If you purchase my T206 cards (or I buy some of yours) from the B/S/T thread, we'll exchange shipping addresses. But beyond that, why anyone cares what my birth name is is beyond me.

I respect that many of you know each other and have off-computer communications and relationships, and nothing personal against any of you, but I would likely never want to meet up with any one of you (unless we're exchanging some rare and valuable baseball cards), and I certainly won't be posting photos of myself or my kid or my dog on here anytime soon. It's an on-line forum to discuss baseball cards. If anything more formal than a nickname is required to participate in such an endeavor, then the whole thing is being taken way to seriously (and personally). I recommend everyone use pseudonyms in the future -- it cuts down on taking things so personally, and would definitely not lead to these kinds of threads where everyone who has "outed" himself wants to know the names of everyone lying in the shadows. Respectfully, I reject the invitation of those who decided to leave the comfort of anonymity to join them in broad daylight.

Relatively anonymous,
T206Collector

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Posted By: warrior1978

I think anonymity should be allowed. I registered using my actual name so administrators can identify me. If you post something controversial, you either stand behind it with your name or you don't. Leon can edit posts and responses accordingly. At times, my profession requires a degree of confidentiality. I live abroad, routinely travel internationally and interact with foreign government representatives. The last thing I need is to have someone know more about me than I want them to know. I take measures to ensure that my name isn't easily googled to prevent "profiling". If someone wants to contact me, they can click on my handle and contact me directly. A quick internet search on yourself can reveal a lot of information. Small pieces of information when put together can make you vulnerable.

Lets say hypothetically I purchased a six figure lot on the recent REA auction and advertised that fact using my real name on this board. Lets take it one step further and suggest that one of the "Lurkers" is an unethical Fedex clerk or even worse, a prospective burgular. By searching this board, I can identify specific people by name, I can identify who has what inventory, I can google your name, I can identify your place of work and the address of your home. All the while remaining in the shadows.

Sometimes I like to be anonymous, there are bad people out who can hide in the shadows or even worse, pretent to be your closest friend.

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Posted By: vetekbob

I would think it would be prudent not to state in an open forum that one made large type purchases and anyone that does such is inviting "potential trouble" in my opinion. Keep your purchases private as well as personal information outside of your name and I dont see a real and true cause for concern. Its only when one has loose lips and tells more than they should that problems arise. Yes its nice to share with friends new additions you have acquired and it would be nice not to have to worry about doing such even on a forum such as this but it all actuality, its just not a wise thing to do in my opinion.
Robert

basicgreatguy@hotmail.com

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Posted By: leon

I really wanted to get folks thoughts on the subject especially in regards to the amount of issues with anonymous posters relative to id'd ones. For now we will continue letting folks post without using their real names. In my own defense anonymous posts that I deem either controversial or confrontational will be dealt with more swiftly than in the past. We continue our forum the way it is....with due notice to confrontational anonymous postings.....My goal is to make this the best Pre-WWII Baseball Card site on the net and this thread was about trying to make it better....carry on and best regards

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Posted By: Wesley

Leon, There has been so much growth on this forum in recent months. It is interesting that while most of the regulars use their full names, many of the newer posters do not and yet post controversial topics anyway. I have read the arguments in this thread and still see no compelling reason why anonymous posting should be allowed on this forum.

I agree with Robert. If someone does not want others to know about his million dollar collection, then perhaps he should not post about his million dollar collection on a public forum. This has more to do with security and common sense than with anonymous posting.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I differentiate between controversial/attack posts and normal everyday posts. I don't see a great need for someone who posts "I like Ty Cobb cards" to post his name. No harm no foul, as someone said.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

There are variety of ways a Net54 board can allow posters. One is that only people on a list are allowed to post. One would email Leon with whatever vital info is needed (name, valid email address) and the person is allowed to post. There would be no fly by night anonymous posters and anyone who acted up could simply be removed from the posters list and could no longer post. We would all be confident in postings, even if the poster used a nickname, knowing that the poster was put on the list by the moderator.

Anyone who wanted could lurk, and anyone who wanted to post could email Leon and be added to the posters list.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Leon needs less work, not more. Allowing anon posters is just asking for trouble. Look at the mayhem cause by vikes. Leon and Brian would be spending all their free time editing posts if people are allowed to remain anonymous and post at will.

It's a truely sad statement that someone made that they are more than willing to post here and chat about cards, but they could care less if they ever met any of us. The hobby is more than just the cards. It's the collectors and dealers too. You can go to a show, walk away empty handed and still feel like it was worthwhile if you got meet up with some fellow collectors and swap stories, etc. You can do that here too, but there is nothing like good old fashion face time with a fellow collector.

I don't have a real issue with someone wanting to remain anon as long as all they are doing posting benign information. Once you cross the line of making accusations, or even post negative info about someone, even if the info is in the public domanin, then you need properly ID yourself. Otherwise, Leon and Brian should delete the posts immediately. It's too easy for someone with a ahidden agenda to hide behind anonymity.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: DJ

I agree with Jay too a certain degree but I also feel that when the 'Game Used' people and the 'Autograph' people left, this Forum has been issue free.

Vikes is giving me a headache at the Game Used Forum as I read that Forum as well. He was a huge problem as was anyone bashing Bushing or PSA/DNA or anything like that. I think there's a big difference in those avenues of collecting in those two worlds as arguments get heated as it is often impossible to get valid proof in certain many scenarios. If there is a problem with a particular individual posting 'for a purpose', it should be dealt with in an appopriate fashion.

This Forum has gone back to a civil existence and I really don't see a need to change it. It's perfect the way it is and by even tweaking a great thing just a little, you may impact it in a small way and perhaps alienate someone on the Board who may want to stay behind the scenes.

My two cents...

DJ

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm on vacation and using the computer at the library, so forgive me if I'm a bit behind. But this is an issue I have brought up many times. I think all posters should use their first and last name, partly because this is a community of friends (for the most part) with common interests and it frustrates me when I'm responding to a post and don't know the respondent. A few have noted that because they often post confidential information about large purchases, they don't want their names revealed. I feel this board is not the appropriate venue for such confidential information. If you made a six figure purchase in an auction, it's nobody's business so it shouldn't be here. This board should include posts that one is willing to share with other members, and therefore first and last names should be required. The board should be considered something we partake in during our leisure time, an outshoot of our hobby interests; it's not a CIA thinktank and personal stuff should be relegated to personal emails.

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Posted By: DJ

I thought about this more last night as this issue was brought up on the GU Forum as well.

I think the content of the board would definately change if we all used first and last names.

There would be far less criticism to the downside of the business as people would fail to report counterfeit cards and fail to truly speak their mind in the defense of being threatened in some way. I know Leon (I believe it was Leon) who posted a while back that anyone can get his personal information on a Google search.

If Don Jones (fake name) makes a note of a crooked seller on ebay, Don Jones could find harm in some way as it is threatening that person's lively hood.

Also if Don Jones criticizes another dealer or company, Don Jones may be banned from bidding on their auctions or worse. It's a crazy world. You may see members of the kimpossible gang at the VBC Forum dinner looking for Wu-Tang revenge. It's crazy world out there.

Also, it's very easy to get around this system by simply creating a fake name. "I'm Don Jones and I'm about to go off on a rant about Mike Smith (fake name)".

I can see where this is a huge problem in other avenues but everyone uses this forum differently and it's a rather placid setting without any motives being placed of late. Some people may have no problem speaking their mind using their true name and others may find harm and feel insecure in the whole matter.

Another two cents...that makes four cents.

DJ