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  #1  
Old 03-31-2021, 03:11 PM
incugator incugator is offline
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Default Help Identifying this Martin Dihigo Card

This card is very interesting, but I can't identify the set. It has the format of a Caramelo Deportivo card, but it is in color. He is wearing the Almanderes uniform from Cuban winter ball days, but it also "could" be an Aguila de Veracruz (Mexico) hat (even though it doesn't look like the standard hat) The paper is old school hand woven paper. I'm not sure if this is a Cuban card or a Mexican card. My guess is that it is from the 30's-50's. If anybody can identify this set, I would appreciate it.
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  #2  
Old 04-03-2021, 01:43 PM
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Default Martin Dihgio

Iím going to bump this to see if there is somebody that can help me out. This is a really cool card and I just canít seem to find anything about it. The paper is really crazy. Like a woven waffle pattern on the back.
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  #3  
Old 04-03-2021, 03:44 PM
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Can you post a picture of the back. People may recognize it faster than the front of the card.
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  #4  
Old 04-03-2021, 05:48 PM
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I am thinking fantasy piece, however if someone on the site knows or has the contacts to give you an answer it's Al Jurgela.

His user name is aljurgela and it looks like he was on just a few days ago.
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  #5  
Old 04-03-2021, 07:57 PM
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Default Picture of the Back

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zqt9ctditz...%20PM.png?dl=0

Here is a picture of the back
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  #6  
Old 04-03-2021, 09:40 PM
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Could it be cut out from a book or program?
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  #7  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:58 PM
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Default Dihigo

Seems like being cutout from a program is possible. Hard matching up the age of Dihigo in the picture with the paper and print quality. It is very poor quality color printing. Obviously woven linen paper and hand cut. The style of the card resembles Caramelo Deportivo, but itís definitely not. Itís also an image that I cannot find ANYWHERE else on the internet.
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:57 AM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
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I would actually guess real and from a Mexican issue from the 1950ís. First it would be odd to make a Dihigo fantasy piece. While he was truly an all time great he is a player appreciated only by a niche group of collectors. It would make a lot more sense to try to fool people with a Paige or Gibson. Second if you were going to do a fantasy piece I doubt you would do an unattractive, tiny card with a blank back. Third, we really have very poor cataloging and understanding of the Mexican issues of the 1950-1960. Finally I do not think it is likely a cut out because of the blank back. Every program, magazine, score card from that era is double sided and doesnít really waste any space with blank areas
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2021, 12:40 PM
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Really interesting piece! Following this.
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  #10  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:11 PM
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Default Learning a lot.

Iím learning a lot from everybody here and I appreciate the direction. Here are a few things.

It could be from the 50ís even though the time period of the actual picture does not line up too well. I donít think Dihigo looked this good in his 40ís unless he aged very gracefully. It has the look of a late 40ís issue card (similar to 49 bowman) when it comes in to print quality.

Is there anybody that has a list of Mexican league players/teams that Dihigo could have a matching card with? Also, does anybody assume 56 is the card number or Dihigoís uniform number?
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  #11  
Old 04-04-2021, 01:16 PM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
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I donít think the photo is contemporary with the issue of the card but that is not uncommon with Mexican issues. There are a number of known cards that featured past greats.
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:17 PM
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Default Is there a guide

Is there a almanac or a guide of Mexican baseball sets from the 40's and 50's?
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2021, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incugator View Post
Is there a almanac or a guide of Mexican baseball sets from the 40's and 50's?
Nope
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2021, 04:34 PM
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The interwoven paper stock is odd. Iíve never seen paper like that on ANY card issue so Iím at a loss....
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2021, 06:17 PM
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I think the 56 is the card number, not a uniform number.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2021, 06:19 PM
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I know he specializes in Cuban cards but maybe Rolando can help?
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:56 PM
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Default Panel card

Iím not sure if all Cuban panels were produced in Cuba or if some were produced in Mexico. This is looking more likely to be a panel card. Based on other cards quality, paper stock etc, itís likely late 40ís-Mid-50ís. More help would be great. One would think if 56 is the card number, there has to be at least one of the other 55 (at least) somewhere in existence.
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2021, 08:41 PM
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Default Stalled

Have I hit a stall or can somebody provide more info
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  #19  
Old 04-07-2021, 05:07 AM
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Hate to burst your bubble but the card is a fantasy piece.
I own several of them and purchased them several years ago from an eBay seller in Mexico. That particular seller, who I believe has two seller accounts on eBay is known to sell fake cards and also fake record albums as well
The one funny thing that gets me is every time they try selling baseball cards they always happen to find a Dihigo, just their luck, they say these cards are so rare but they continue to always find a Dihigo card, imagine that!

I know a few other collectors on this board know who Iím talking about and have been burned by them in the past. Weíve reported them to eBay on several occasions but they continue to sell their crap.
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Pokejurecords

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  #20  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:38 AM
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Crap, I just won a barbacoa215 auction with two DiHigo cards in it. One was a 1963 Penafiel, which I know from genuine examples I have, so I guess when the cards get here I will have an exemplar to check against, then either a fight or a happy day.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 04-07-2021 at 11:39 AM.
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannybb24 View Post
Hate to burst your bubble but the card is a fantasy piece.
I own several of them and purchased them several years ago from an eBay seller in Mexico. That particular seller, who I believe has two seller accounts on eBay is known to sell fake cards and also fake record albums as well
The one funny thing that gets me is every time they try selling baseball cards they always happen to find a Dihigo, just their luck, they say these cards are so rare but they continue to always find a Dihigo card, imagine that!

I know a few other collectors on this board know who Iím talking about and have been burned by them in the past. Weíve reported them to eBay on several occasions but they continue to sell their crap.
Seller IDs:
Barbacoa2015
Pokejurecords

Steve

I always assumed the cards were fake, but how in the world do you fake an album.

I just bought a lot of 21 1960ís baseball programs from them. I think I will just be impressed if those are fake too- that would be a lot work
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:59 AM
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Jason, I probably should have been more specific, they are fake album covers and not the actual record.

The programs are real, theyíre not that talented to make replicas of those so youíll be fine.

The cards on the other hand are low grade quality, usually with blurry or grainy pics of the players. I have real Mexican cards from the 40s even though they were printed on thin paper the image quality is much sharper than the fakes they claim are from the 50s-60s.
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2021, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason19th View Post
I always assumed the cards were fake, but how in the world do you fake an album.

I just bought a lot of 21 1960’s baseball programs from them. I think I will just be impressed if those are fake too- that would be a lot work
I'm way more of a record collector than a card collector these days. Believe it or not, there are several Chinese record pressing plants that churn out fake vinyl.

Last edited by Orioles1954; 04-07-2021 at 12:22 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2021, 12:50 PM
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Thatís messed up!
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  #25  
Old 04-07-2021, 03:32 PM
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I thought I'd post some pics of fake and real Mexican cards to help anyone from future mistakes.
The first pic of cards are fake, the top ones are like the Dihigo we are talking about in this thread and the bottom are fakes that were sold by the same seller on eBay claiming them to be 1950's issued cards.
Unfortunately for the person that made these used a photo of Minnie Minoso from the '80's.
IMG_0001.jpg

The following pics are real cards from 1945, I have been lucky and fortunate enough to find the album along with many cards to the set though this set is one of the rarest foreign issues around, with maybe 3-4 copies known for each card or less.
IMG.jpg

And here is an album I had up till last year when I traded it away minus the Bill Wright, some of you have seen some of the cards like the Dihigo and Dandy but most have never seen the album. Here they are still pasted in the album like when I bought them, and yes these are real Mexican cards, they are called Arte Y Deportes and they are from 1951 and not 1947-48 like some of us thought.
mex album 1.jpg
mex album 23.jpg
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Last edited by mannybb24; 04-07-2021 at 03:33 PM.
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  #26  
Old 04-07-2021, 05:22 PM
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Arte y Deportes also had some boxers. Here is one:

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  #27  
Old 04-07-2021, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Arte y Deportes also had some boxers. Here is one:

Yes, I had the entire album which included boxers, soccer players and wrestlers.
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  #28  
Old 04-07-2021, 06:58 PM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannybb24 View Post
I thought I'd post some pics of fake and real Mexican cards to help anyone from future mistakes.
The first pic of cards are fake, the top ones are like the Dihigo we are talking about in this thread and the bottom are fakes that were sold by the same seller on eBay claiming them to be 1950's issued cards.
Unfortunately for the person that made these used a photo of Minnie Minoso from the '80's.
Attachment 451005

The following pics are real cards from 1945, I have been lucky and fortunate enough to find the album along with many cards to the set though this set is one of the rarest foreign issues around, with maybe 3-4 copies known for each card or less.
Attachment 451006

And here is an album I had up till last year when I traded it away minus the Bill Wright, some of you have seen some of the cards like the Dihigo and Dandy but most have never seen the album. Here they are still pasted in the album like when I bought them, and yes these are real Mexican cards, they are called Arte Y Deportes and they are from 1951 and not 1947-48 like some of us thought.
Attachment 451007
Attachment 451008

That Minoso is very interesting. It leads me to think that the cards might not be fake in the sense that they were meant to deceive. Remember that Minoso went back and played in the Mexican league into the early 1970ís when he was some where between 50 and 200 years old. Isnít it possible that this ďsetĒ was put out in the 1970ís as very cheap novelties and they decided to include some old timers. I just have a hard time believing that someone fakes a Rosell card. I have been collecting in this area for a decade and I just learned who he was. Clearly not from the 1950ís and clearly not licensed in any way, but I am just note sure fake is the right word
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:26 PM
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Sorry Jason but the cards were meant to deceive and they even showed me a photocopy pic of what they said was the front of the album of the colored cards (Minoso) that read "1950".
These cards are absolutely fake and the sellers knew what they were and are doing, they are not commemorative cards from the 70's.
They had to make cards of other players right? They couldn't just make Dihigo cards, people would be suspicious on why they only find and sell Dihigo's.
If there was a way of looking back at all of their past sales of cards, you'll find the majority contain a Dihigo, I find that kinda odd, don't you?

As far as Basilio Rosell, he was a star player in Cuba and is in the Mexican Hall of Fame (Cuban HOF too, 1939) so people do know him and have known about him for a long time.
Here is a postcard I have of him from the 20's in Cuba:
IMG_0004.jpg
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Last edited by mannybb24; 04-07-2021 at 07:32 PM.
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  #30  
Old 04-07-2021, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannybb24 View Post
Sorry Jason but the cards were meant to deceive and they even showed me a photocopy pic of what they said was the front of the album of the colored cards (Minoso) that read "1950".
These cards are absolutely fake and the sellers knew what they were and are doing, they are not commemorative cards from the 70's.
They had to make cards of other players right? They couldn't just make Dihigo cards, people would be suspicious on why they only find and sell Dihigo's.
If there was a way of looking back at all of their past sales of cards, you'll find the majority contain a Dihigo, I find that kinda odd, don't you?

As far as Basilio Rosell, he was a star player in Cuba and is in the Mexican Hall of Fame (Cuban HOF too, 1939) so people do know him and have known about him for a long time.
Here is a postcard I have of him from the 20's in Cuba:
Attachment 451093

Well that 1950 album pretty much settles the debate

I love the real album. There was one on eBay a couple years ago and I really wish I had gone after it. Though it does have some of the strangest art I have seen on a card. The Dandridge is almost like some weird pop art
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  #31  
Old 04-07-2021, 07:53 PM
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Which cards are you talking about, the 1945 set like the Theolic Smith, Bragana and Marvin Williams I posted earlier?
If so I believe there is only two known cards of the Dandridge, I do not have one but know where the two are.
Just super tough cards to find, like a said only a few known of each card so if you find any buy them, youíll probably never have another opportunity.
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:58 PM
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Jason you may be talking about the Ď51 album as the color of Dandy was a bit off, kinda Michael Jackson style.
Sweet cards either way, sorry to see it go but it brought me in something else just as wonderful. Luckily I was able to keep the Bill Wright out of the deal.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannybb24 View Post

Yes, I had the entire album which included boxers, soccer players and wrestlers.
Got a list of the boxers by chance? My checklist is

207 Tony Mar
210 Luis Castillo
211 Chucho Ruiz
212 Julia Cesar Jiminez
213 Carlos Malarca
214 Bernardo Flores
216 Ernesto Aguilar
218 Juan Zurita
220 Paulino Montes
221 Kid Azteca
223 Nicolas Moran
228 Guillermo Valero

I'd love to fill in the blanks.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 04-07-2021 at 08:58 PM.
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  #34  
Old 04-08-2021, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Got a list of the boxers by chance? My checklist is

207 Tony Mar
210 Luis Castillo
211 Chucho Ruiz
212 Julia Cesar Jiminez
213 Carlos Malarca
214 Bernardo Flores
216 Ernesto Aguilar
218 Juan Zurita
220 Paulino Montes
221 Kid Azteca
223 Nicolas Moran
228 Guillermo Valero

I'd love to fill in the blanks.

Unfortunately I did not keep a list of the boxers but I can check with the collector who now has the album to see if he can shoot me the list.

Steve
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Last edited by mannybb24; 04-08-2021 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 04-08-2021, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannybb24 View Post
Unfortunately I did not keep a list of the boxers but I can check with the collector who now has the album to see if he can shoot me the list.

Steve
I'd appreciate that.
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  #36  
Old 04-09-2021, 02:30 AM
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Default Thanks for he help

It seems like there is somebody with extensive knowledge on this. Iím not sure that a 70ís ďfakeĒ Dihigo isnt at least interesting. The Cuban/Mexican vintage card world is a pretty cool niche that I wish I could really understand. I hope this thread keeps going as a way to learn about some of these great players and cards.
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