Need help identifying premiums 11" X 14" multi-sport....... *Pics added

[fkw]

Hi, I just got an email from someone that lives fairly close to me and he needed help identifying what sounds like large premiums.

Sorry, there are No Photos of them, yet

Here is how he describes them...

"""I have 70 or so of these cards. I assume it was a set of 100 as I do have #1 and #100. They consist of all sports. Lots of baseball and football also boxing, race cars, tennis, olympics, even wrestling and golf and billiards. Here's the kicker.....they are 11" X 14" huge cards black and white on thick cardboard stock. They are machine cut. They are real pictures. Numbers appear on the front all start with SP- then a number 1 to 100. The backs were originally blank but have been stamped as withdrawn from a local school library in 1983. The most recent pix on these cards seems to be early or mid fifties."""

I was thinking "Sport Magazine" ??? because of the "SP" before the numbers?? Does anyone know of something that matches the description?


If I cant get an answer here Im going to drive over and see them in person. He is just trying to ID them, and doesnt want to sell them, yet.

Thanks Frank

edited to add pics

here is front and back pics of an example, Cobb (I'll add more pics at bottom of post later tonight)

[Leon]

Could be what you said Frank. A little late in years for me to know much....let us know what you find out.

[Clutch-Hitter]

http://cgi.ebay.com/c1970-Lg-11x14-A...item20b4b4d823

http://cgi.ebay.com/1970-lg-11x14-Ar...item20b54122d0

http://cgi.ebay.com/c1970-lg-11x14-A...item20b4e8f40f

[fkw]

Thanks for the links, I'll see if they match. Im going to go over and see them within a couple days and take pics etc.



PS. This collector who owns these is not a novice, he has collected for 60 years, been to hundreds of shows including larger National Shows and has never seen cards like these. He was also personal friends with Frank Nagy of Michigan where he is from, and he did not know what they were.

Hes shown them to some dealers in the past with no help, Levi Bleam, Fritsch Family, Steve Verkman, etc.

So im sure they are rather scarce to not be IDed yet.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by fkw

Thanks for the links, I'll see if they match. Im going to go over and see them within a couple days and take pics etc.



PS. This collector who owns these is not a novice, he has collected for 60 years, been to hundreds of shows including larger National Shows and has never seen cards like these. He was also personal friends with Frank Nagy of Michigan where he is from, and he did not know what they were.

Hes shown them to some dealers in the past with no help, Levi Bleam, Fritsch Family, Steve Verkman, etc.

So im sure they are rather scarce to not be IDed yet.

I am biased but I think there is more collective knowledge on this board than anywhere else in the world, for pre-war baseball cards and premiums. No, we won't have all of the answers, but an answer is more likely here than anywhere....

[scgaynor]

Without actually seeing them I am going with some sort of decorative classroom posters. When I was in school we had a bunch of similar posters in one of my classrooms, there was Jackie Robinson and others (even though this was in the early 1980's). That could be why they were at one time in a school library. The SP could be who made them (scholastic something or another). Just a guess........

Scott

[fkw]

More info...

I got a chance to see these in person.

They are on heavy stock and are NOT flimsy at all, if you were to bend one slightly they would crease.
The backs are a textured bluish-gray color and many of them are discolored to a greenish yellow color from age around edges and you can tell they sat still somewhere for a long time in a stack.
No pinholes. Not all of them are stamped on back.

The newest pics I could ID are a Jackie Robinson sliding, and a Satchel Paige (sitting on ground against a fence in Cleveland Uniform), Pete Gray, a 1950 Era T.Williams, and some football/Olympics/Globetrotters that look to be ca1950.

No Babe Ruth, Joe Jackson, Mantle, Mays, etc. I suspect the Ruth was printed but is just one of the 30 missing from the 100 card set.

The earliest pic are a couple Pugilists from the 1880-90s, a 1895 Football team pic, a billiards player, and a very early Lajoie pic, then would be 2 1905 Era NY Giants pics, Mathewson, and Mathewson/McGraw/McGinnity.

4-5 woman golfers, 4-5 men golfers, a couple jockeys/horses, 3-4 race cars, 2 basketball (James Naismith and a early Globetrotters), 6-7 football, most were baseball... including 1919 Black Sox, Landis, etc.

I ran out of memory on my camera after 1/2 the stack so didnt get pics of the later cards, yet. The higher the numbers the more modern the pics. span was 1880s to ca.1950

a few examples of the non-baseball ones below
(if you can ID the football player, golfer, portrait, etc. that would help.)


Dempsey vs. Carpentier,Jersey City, July 2nd,1921
(thanks Clayton )


Bobby Jones


Thorpe


??


4 horsemen

[teetwoohsix]

Hey Frank- in the thread "Your Best Pickup of 2010" someone posted a picture of a 1930's Rogers Peet card of golfer Bobby Jones..........looks just like the golfer in your pics........check it out. Nice stuff by the way.

Sincerely,Clayton

[Peter_Spaeth]

SP - Scholastic Press?

[fkw]

I was thinking that too and searched Scholastic Press a couple days ago before I saw these in person and didnt find anything exactly. Scott brought it up that he remember seeing similar sounding pictures in school, so when I went I was thinking they might be the same age as the date stamped (1983), but after seeing them I think they are older, nothing at all after 1950s, some football ones and maybe an Olympic ones "looked" 1950s, but I couldnt ID the subject exactly, some action shots, etc.

Every single subject I saw is Sports related, so the SP might be that too ?

PS my internet is super slow so pics taking long time

[fkw]

The most interesting 2 baseball ones to me were the Satchel Paige, the pose is awesome, but I couldnt take a pic of it yet (ran out of memory), and also the Pete Gray one i thought was nice because if these are from the 1950s, it would be really the only period card of him (need to take a pic next time).
Others I can remember offhand that I ddint get pics of are DiMaggio, Musial, Feller, unidentified Lefty #32, Williams,

random Baseball related (more to come)


1919 Black Sox


Foxx


Ott


Wagner


Gehrig


Feller, Young?


Lefty Grove

(thanks Brad )

[teetwoohsix]

The boxing scene is Dempsey vs. Carpentier,Jersey City, July 2nd,1921.

[leftygrove10]

Frank:

Lefty Grove is shown in the bottom picture of your last group. It looks to me like the picture number is 52.

It's interesting to note that his is numbered "52-SP". Others are numbered "SP-47". I wonder why the SP comes first in some and second in others? I thought maybe it was even versus odd numbers, but after looking back through the pictures I realized that that was not the pattern.

Brad

[fkw]

More Baseball


Landis


Speaker ?


Mathewson McGraw McGinnity


Mathewson


Jerome and Paul Dean


Bender


Hubbell


Lajoie

[fkw]

Ya Brad, some have the SP before the number, some after, I dont know what the ratio is though.
Im going to get a more detailed list later.


Im not good at football ID

who?


Johnny "Blood" McNally
(thanks Mike )


??


??

[D. Bergin]

1983 seems like an accurate date range based on the print style and the font. Maybe spread out a few years within that time frame.

They look similar in style to the "Fan Fotos" put out in the early 70's, but of better quality.

[Jason Carota]

Originally Posted by fkw

??

Hugh Duffy?



(Image courtesy of boston.sportsthenandnow.com)

[Mikehealer]

Frank,
The first picture in post #15 I think is Johnny "Blood" McNally. I am going on memory from a book I had as a kid and I haven't seen that book in over 30 years, so I could be wrong.

Found a scan on google images(same pose)

[Clutch-Hitter]

Great cards!

That Speaker card........that's the guy batting in the "Red Sox Warming Up..." postcard.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha, Everyone! Here is a quick run down on this incomplete set. A more accurate list will be posted soon. I have 80 cards of what I assume is a 100 card set as I have SP-1 and SP-100. There are 27 cards baseball,14 cards football, 6golf, 3 race cars, 4 tennis, 2 basketball, 1 pool (billiards), 2 boxing, 1 (possible) wrestler, 1 yacht race, 4race horses/jokey. Also 15 others unidentified ice skater, bowler, olympians, etc. Conspicuous by its absence are anything hockey!!! They are definately "cards" HEAVY cardboard stock. Nothing like Fan Fhotos of the 70s they were papery as I recall, like small posters and no real boarders. Also the font used in the numbering system resembles typewriter font, not something that I can say is not from the fifties. Guessing I would say these cards are from 1950 or 51. A list of all 80 known cards will be posted soon, and with a little help from my friends all 80 of the cards I have will be photographed and posted. Aloha!

[jcmtiger]

Frank, is this the same picture of Satchel Paige?

This picture is from the book "SATCHEL" The Life and Times of an American Legend.

Author Larry Tye, 2009.

At the bottom of the photo is the following:

Photo by George Silk/Time Life Pictures/Getty Images.

[fkw]

Yes thats the same Paige picture... with the Coke bottle

Thanks David for clearing up the checklist. I was trying to remember offhand how many football etc. there was in your group and I missed by a bit

[teetwoohsix]

I'm not sure on this, but could the singular photo of the football player be Harold "Red" Grange? He was all of the rage in the 1920's,,,I just can't be sure- maybe there are some vintage football junkies on the board ?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha, Frank. Funny we didn't immediatly notice the lack of Hockey in this group. By the numbering I think #46 would have been Ruth, between #45 Cobb and #47 Gherig. Let's meet again in the next few days and photo all of them and list the actual #s and subjects. If we can't identify them in the next week or so, I will go to theoriginal library and see if any record or remembrance of these cards remains.
Also the first 50 are numbered SP- (then the number) and the last 50 are (the number first) then SP. Also the only card without the library stamp is Pete Grey STL BRN.

[cmoore330]

I work at a university in Oklahoma and recognize your pictures. We have three boxes of these photos that I believe were used as teaching aids. Each photo has a brief sentence attached to the back similar to what you would see on an AP photo.

One box highlights 1900-1930, one is 1930-1950, & the last is 1950-1970. So I am guessing they were issued in the 1970's. I didn't count how many are in each one, but 50 per set would seem about right.

They were distributed by:

National Educational Aids, Inc.
PO Box 3351
Milwaukee, WI 53208

A quick Google search doesn't turn up anything on the company, so I would guess they are long gone. There is also a (long)letter enclosed in each box that reads the following:

"PLEASE NOTE: The pictures in this set are arranged in an order that correlates with the teacher's guide (I haven't seen this by the way). We suggest you read through the guide before changing them.

Our pictures have been carefully selected and researched to represent the heritage of the American way of life. Although chronologically organized, they represent more than historical fact. They are thematically arranged to include the changing mores, the ingenuity of the American conscience, and the human foibles as well as the milieu of American achievement. the thematic organization not only pictorially depicts the development of our heritage, but can be used to garner the student's interest by creating an atmosphere analogous to the time period being studied. Men learn in many ways. The educational process is indeed a very visual experience. teachers, who talk about a period of time when little else reinforces those ideas expressed, are not using all the resource they command. Very often the student's senses are not assaulted enough or in a sustained manner so as to create the desired mood. Once the mood has been created, the teacher's job becomes much simpler. He has created an environment that matches the ideas he desires to present. Our program can greatly assist you in creating this illusion.

The pictures are not captioned allowing for greater versatility. That is, you can remove the captions from the teachers guide (A-HA) and attach them to the pictures; you can add a personal flair by making your own captions based on our research; or you could allow the students to research the pictures and make their own captions.

The program that we offer finds strength in the versatility that it offers. The pictures lend themselves to any number of disciplines including history, English, humanities, economics, etc. Teachers have successfully used our series in many ways. the pictures can be hung or placed about the classroom creating the desired mood. They can be used to create interest and motivate students to ask more about them and the concepts they represent. Students can also use the series in an individualized manner as part of a research paper or project. Teachers have also found that the pictures are excellent tools to generate meaningful class discussions.

The innovative possibilities become unlimited as the pictures provide an educationally sound stepping-stone for truly creative teaching."

Hope that helps! I am going to ice my hands now since I haven't done that much typing in years!

[fkw]

Cool, Thanks for the new info... I'll send the owner this link again.

Thanks Frank