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  #201  
Old 05-07-2020, 10:23 PM
tim tim is offline
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Thanks to all for keeping this thread alive! I love these sets too.

From my armchair interweb research, it seems to me that the Bond Bread cards and the Sport Star Subject cards are round-cornered and identical, but I am keeping an open mind.

And just for clarification, the only time the Walker Cooper card gets lumped in with these sets is as part of the oversized "Exhibit" run.

--Tim
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  #202  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:22 PM
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From eBay
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  #203  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:53 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

Part One - Introduction

Since Ted Zanidakis made the original post in the net54baseball.com thread entitled “1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?” over ten years ago on April 4, 2009, it has highly discussed the 48 card 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert card set and many other cards and team photos with similar or identical pictures, or which are otherwise related. The thread contains pictures of some of these other cards. Many of these sets contain potential first year cards (rookie cards) of the player pictured. After the era these sets were issued, 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert cards and most of the related cards and photos have been lost and are no longer common. Since its inception over a decade ago, the thread has had participation from all over the collecting universe. Even those actively engaged in buying and selling cards have asked questions or otherwise participated. Attribution is important because today. All of the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert cards have a much higher order of magnitude in volue than the original cost of the loaf of bread each came in. So do the “impostor” sets.

Net54baseball.com has other threads that have addressed the Homogenized Bond Bread set of Jackie Robinson cards. One such thread has provided not only pictures of the known cards in the set, but authentic documentation to conclusive establish that what was once was thought to been a set of all Jackie Robinson rookie cards was actually a set of cards issued one card at a time by Homogenized Bond Bread from 1947 through 1949. The first card was issued during the summer of 1947 with the other cards issued at separate times during those three years. Though the cards from 1948 and 1949 are not Robinson rookie cards, they remain quite rare.

By the late 1980s-early 1990s, hunting for rookie cards had become a national passtime, perhaps in the minds of many supplanting baseball itself. You could buy a pack of cards from most any card set issued in the 1980s, grade any rookie card found inside, and if you received a high enough grade the rookie card could be worth $20, $50, $100 or more. Collectors did not consider that the number of card manufacturers had increased 50 fold from the early 1980s to 1990, with the quantities of actual cards printed increasing many times more. Card manufacturers were loading up their new sets with more and more cards of the most unproven rookies to the exclusion of well established players. People were paying big money for rookie cards. Many were promoting putting such graded rookie cards away as investments for various retirement accounts. It rarely mattered if a new rookie card was printed as a “limited” edition of 100 or was a regular issue printed that had been printed in quantities of up to 500,000 or more. Grading suddenly made it valuable. Buyers failed to recognized that the value of graded rookie cards issued in the 1980s of popular players was not based on the number of cards actually graded, but based on the sentiment they had for the player.

By the 1990s, the tremendous increase in the volume of cards made by the ever increasing pool of card manufacturers, put into the market place more cards than could be sold. Retailers like Walgrens and Kresge's had volumes of boxes of cards left over unsold at the end of baseball seasons. Wholesalers like Costo and Price Club did not sell out. People who wanted to cash out of their valuable 1980s graded rookie cards found too many others trying to do the same thing. Hobby dealers buying direct from the manufacturer found on delivery of their orders that others were already discounting the product by up to 50% of what they had paid (sometimes 6 months in advance) to the manufacturer. The price of graded new rookie cards collapsed. The card market crashed.

In 2000, I asked SCG to grade four cards from the Festberg find. The grading label on the first three cards (Ted Williams, Joe Louis and Stan Musial) identify the cards as “1947 Homogenized Bond” cards. The fourth (Jackie Robinson) was returned to me with an indication the size of the card was too narrow. Scans are provided. The Robinson card was a little narrower than the other 3 cards SCG had graded. In fact, the Robinson card was the narrowest of all cards in that 24 card set. All of the cards in that 24 card set had slight variations in dimensions from each other. Duplicate cards of the same player from the Festberg find also vary slightly in dimensions from each other. Those variation in height and width among the cards of the Festberg find helps explain why the cards are toned and less thick than the normal cards in the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert set and the “Sports Star Subjects” set. What these differences mean will be discussed in the posts of the next parts of my discussion.





Among the good things that came from the increase in activity in cards in the 1980s is first, many new collectors entered the hobby. While much of that increasing card activity may have been generated by the profit cards could generate, the increased public awareness led to searches for and the findings of many old and forgotten cards across the country. Supply and demand is a better determinant of the scarcity of vintage cards and than sentiment. Sentiment, though, is still an important factor. You can ask most anyone whether they would like to have a 1952 Topps “rookie” card of Mickey Mantle or one of Sal Yvars. Virtually all would say, “Mickey Mantle.” With the follow-up question, “Do you know who Sal Yvars is?,” the response is invariably, “Who's he?” Try asking the average Joe whether he would want a tobacco card of Ruth or Wagner.

Sentiment was an important factor in the issuance of the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts. The parent company of Homogenized Bond Bread and Tip Top Bread capitalized on the sentiment of aficionados of baseball to attract them to select those bread brands over other ones. The ultimate customer only sees the tip of the iceberg. Most have more knowledge about the bread than about what it took in research, planning, development, printing and insertion of the cards into the bread packages. The source of the pictures used on the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert cards, the reasons why those pictures are the same as pictures in Team Photo Packs and on cards that did not come as inserts in bread packages, the printing of these items, the dating of these sets and more will appear in my posts of the next parts of this discussion. Thank you for reading.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521
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  #204  
Old 05-13-2020, 10:21 PM
tim tim is offline
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Here's a recently completed ebay auction:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Bond-B...rdt=true&rt=nc
All 48 cards (round-cornered) plus all four Sport Star Subject boxes. These boxes do not show up very often.
--Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bondbread1.jpg (77.4 KB, 487 views)
File Type: jpg bondbread2.jpg (76.6 KB, 486 views)
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  #205  
Old 05-14-2020, 05:53 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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I thought the “Homogenized Bread” cards had cropped corners and the “Sport Star Subjects” had square corners? I find this contradictory to previous research and discovery. I believe the offering on eBay are “Bond Bread/Homogenized Bread” cards with Sport Star Subject boxes, from which the accompanying cards never actually came from. That or someone has manually clipped the corners themselves

Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 05-14-2020 at 05:59 AM.
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  #206  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:14 AM
tim tim is offline
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Every time I have seen the boxes and cards come up at auction together, whether it be the Sport Star Subjects or the movie star Screen Star Subjects, the cards have been round-cornered. However, I have only seen the boxes and cards come up together approximately four times in the past 15 years, so that is not a huge sample size.

One other thing to consider is that these boxes hold 12 cards each. 4 boxes times 12 cards equals 48 cards which is the number of round-cornered cards. It doesn't make sense for the 24 square-bordered cards to have gone into four different boxes -- boxes labeled as Series 1 through 4.
--Tim
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  #207  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:37 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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I defer to Ted Zanidakis' opening post and the examples he posted. Take a look at the example he shows as an original "Bond Bread/Homogenized Bread" Jackie Robinson and note the subtle differences in the cropping of the corners and the image between a Bond Bread and a "Sports Star Subject". The first example (with white background) is an exemplar posted by Ted. The second is from the ebay lot. The difference is clear and evident. The Sports Star Subjects Jackie has cropped corners which are much more "square" than the Bond Bread exemplar. Also much more of the "Dodgers" can be seen in the Bond Bread card, even when factoring in the off-set/miscut. These are 100% not the same cards from the same set, regardless of whether a third party grading company mistakenly labels them as such.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BondBreadJackie.jpg (67.0 KB, 482 views)
File Type: jpg BondBreadJackie2.jpg (59.4 KB, 488 views)

Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 05-14-2020 at 08:45 AM.
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  #208  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:51 AM
tim tim is offline
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The round-cornered cards have huge variation when it comes to the cutting of the corners. Both Jackies look good to me and would not look out of place in an SGC or Beckett slab.
--Tim

Last edited by tim; 05-14-2020 at 08:54 AM.
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  #209  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:53 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim View Post
The round-cornered cards have huge variation when it come to the cutting of the corners. Both Jackies look good to me and would not look out of place in an SGC or Beckett slab.
--Tim
I'm not saying they can't be slabbed. I'm saying they're not from the same set. Corners are clearly different as is the image. and how much of "Dodgers" can be seen in the first and not the second. Its not even debatable
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  #210  
Old 05-14-2020, 08:55 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Hi Dan

What strikes me the most is not the difference in the form of the corner cuts, but the difference in the pictures of the two JRobby cards you have posted.

There is a noticeable difference in the contrast of the pictures. The bottom card is lacking the B/W contrast typical of an original 1947 BOND BREAD card.

Do you know what the back of the bottom JRobby card looks like ?


TED Z

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  #211  
Old 05-14-2020, 09:02 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Dan

What strikes me the most is not the difference in the form of the corner cuts, but the difference in the pictures of the two JRobby cards you have posted.

There is a noticeable difference in the contrast of the pictures. The bottom card is lacking the B/W contrast typical of an original 1947 BOND BREAD card.

Do you know what the back of the bottom JRobby card looks like ?


TED Z

T206 Reference
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Hi Ted. Thanks for your help and extensive research on these cards. I agree with you on the contrast also, but I wasn't sure if image quality or lighting might have accounted for that. You can see considerably more of Dodgers in the Bond Bread than the Sports Star Subjects. I think when you factor in the difference in corners, what you actually see in the image, and potentially the contrast...it becomes clear and evident that although similar, they are not from the same set.

I do not know what the back of the Robinson looks like but would be interested in seeing it.
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  #212  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:03 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default 1947 BOND BREAD cards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74 View Post
Hi Ted. Thanks for your help and extensive research on these cards. I agree with you on the contrast also, but I wasn't sure if image quality or lighting might have accounted for that. You can see considerably more of Dodgers in the Bond Bread than the Sports Star Subjects. I think when you factor in the difference in corners, what you actually see in the image, and potentially the contrast...it becomes clear and evident that although similar, they are not from the same set.

I do not know what the back of the Robinson looks like but would be interested in seeing it.

Hi Dan

I would be very interested in seeing what the backs of both of these Jackie Robinson cards look like ?

As you know, the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards have bright white backs. The re-printed (24 cards) from
the "Festberg find" have toned backs. If the bottom Robinson in your scan has a toned back (as I suspect)
it has been faked to look like an original 1947 BOND BREAD card by someone who rounded it's corners.




TED Z

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  #213  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:33 AM
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Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sports Star Subjects Ebay May2020 Pic1.jpg (77.4 KB, 460 views)
File Type: jpg Sports Star Subjects Ebay May2020 Pic2.jpg (76.5 KB, 474 views)
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  #214  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:45 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis
Well, they can't be both Bond Breads and Sports Star Subjects unless there was a surplus of Bond Breads that were re-released as Sports Star Subjects, which could be a possibility I suppose. My issue, and perhaps misunderstanding, was that Sports Star Subjects had square corners (never rounded) and Bond Bread/Homogenized Bread had cropped/rounded corners (never square). I always assumed grading company error if there was confusion in this regard. Interestingly, I've never seen either versions of these cards labeled as "Sports Star Subjects". Both square and round get labeled as Bond/Homogenized Bread, IMO incorrectly when square cornered.

Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 05-14-2020 at 10:52 AM.
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  #215  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:47 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545. And they listed the 48 cards included as:
(1) Rex Barney
(2) Yogi Berra
(3) Ewell Blackwell
(4) Lou Boudreau
(5) Ralph Branca
(6) Harry Brecheen
(7) Dom DiMaggio
(8) Joe Dimaggio
(9) Bobbie Doerr (Bobby)
(10) Bruce Edwards
(11) Bob Elliott
(12) Del Ennis
(13) Bob Feller
(14) Carl Furillo
(15) Cid Gordon (Sid)
(16) Joe Gordon
(17) Joe Hatten
(18) Gill Hodges
(19) Tommy Holmes
(20) Larry Janson (Jansen)
(21) Sheldon Jones
(22) Edwin Joost
(23) Charlie Keller
(24) Ken Keltner
(25) Buddy Kerr
(26) Ralph Kiner
(27) John Lindell
(28) Whitey Lockman
(29) Willard Marshall
(30) Johnny Mize
(31) Stan Musial
(32) Andy Pafko
(33) Johnny Pesky
(34) Pee Wee Reese
(35) Phil Rizzuto
(36) Aaron Robinson
(37) Jackie Robinson
(38) John Sain
(39) Enow Slaughter
(40) Vern Stephens
(41) George Tebbetts
(42) Bob Thomson
(43) Johnny Van Der Meer (VanderMeer)
(44) Ted Williams
Boxers also Found in Set
(45) Primo Carnera
(46) Marcel Cerdan
(47) Jake LaMotta
(48) Joe Louis

Hi Dave

These are real thing. They compare exactly with my original set of cards, which I collected in 1947. And, I still have.


TED Z

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  #216  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:50 AM
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I thought we should post the pictures from that Ebay listing before they disappear. I already posted a picture above of the back of the first page, so I'm not posting the backs of all the others. I am showing the picture of the back of the boxes.
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  #217  
Old 05-14-2020, 10:57 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedzan View Post
Hi Dave

These are real thing. They compare exactly with my original set of cards, which I collected in 1947. And, I still have.


TED Z

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So they would not have originated from the Sports Star Subjects boxes accompanying them in the listing unless they were re-issuing Bond Breads in the "SSS" boxes later. Where does that leave the square cornered versions? I think SGC has some explaining to do

Last edited by Gobucsmagic74; 05-14-2020 at 10:59 AM.
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  #218  
Old 05-14-2020, 11:03 AM
Gobucsmagic74
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In other words, what the hell is this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-bond-b...37c57b6da6e6df
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File Type: jpg BondBreadJackie3.jpg (75.7 KB, 473 views)
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  #219  
Old 05-14-2020, 03:20 PM
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Dan,
Well I guess that's the $64 question we've been trying to answer since 2009.

Here's a quick summary of what I think we've figured out so far:

If the card you are examining has square corners it's NOT a Bond Bread card. Is it vintage? Maybe.

If the card has round corners is it definitely a Bond Bread card? No. The Screen Star Subjects (movie star) cards came in those thin boxes and have rounded corners. Do the Sports Star Series cards have round corners? We aren't sure, but the latest cards auctioned off suggest they might since this mystery set had what appeared to be the Bond Bread cards, but also the four Sport Star Series boxes. However, no one has been able to say for sure.

Where do the cards from the Festberg find fit into all of this? No one knows exactly, but they are not Bond Bread cards.

Did I miss anything?
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  #220  
Old 05-16-2020, 11:59 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

PART TWO – Like and Similar Pictures on the Different Card Sets

Post #48 (June 8, 2009) of the net54baseball.com thread, “1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?,” shows the fronts of 12 square cornered cards. Eleven of these cards are pictures of either a movie star or cowboy(s), with the last, the sole sports card pictured, of golf and other sports champion Babe Zaharias. Also shown are two different card backs, each with printed words and parts of words, that when appropriately placed side-by-side (as was done in the post) display a full text reading across the two cards in 4 lines: “46 / TRADING CARDS / ASSORTED SUBJECTS / SPORTS – HOLLYWOOD – COWBOYS.” The right card back is rubber stamped “HESS SHOES.” The left back has no rubber stamping. The left card back has printed in small type near its bottom, an illegible name which this discussion and subsequent post will explain. Along the same line of text as the small printed name on the left card back, the right card back has printed the abbreviation “No.” followed by a not discernible 4 digit number. Though HESS SHOES is still a large shoe manufacturing company and had many stores scattered around the country at the time, the rubber stamping of “HESS SHOES” appears not dissimilar from rubber stamps not too frequently found on the blank backs of cards from many sets of the 1930s and 1940s. In those cases, the rubber stamp was applied to piggyback onto a larger card release of others as promotion of the rubber stampers' personal interests. For example, the name of an individual service station can be infrequently found rubber stamped on the back of a card from a general card issue of one gasoline brand or another.

The key that led me to identifying the source of the pictures printed on all of these card sets, as well as the photographs in the Team Photo Packs sold at the time in ballparks, was the similarity of the picture and design of the Babe Zaharias card to many of the cards in the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert set, cards of other sets, and the glossy photos in Team Photo Sets. Unfortunately, of yet I have been unable to locate any images of the other sports cards in the 46 Trading Card set identified in Post #48.

I searched the internet for Babe Zaharias pictures and found that by 1947 this multi-sport champion had already been a sports news feature for more than 15 years.

BABE ZAHARIAS

Mildred Ella “Babe” Didrikson Zaharias: (1911-1956) excelled in golf, basketball, baseball and track and field. Her her first job from High School (she dropped out) was with the Employers' Casualty Insurance of Dallas, Texas, and though designated a “secretary,” she was solely employed to play basketball as amateur on the company's “industrial team.” She led it to win the AAU Basketball Championship in 1931. At the 1932 Los Angeles Olympics, she three top medals in Track and Field - 2 gold medals (80-meter hurdles and javelin) and 1 silver (high jump). After the 1932 Olympics, she performed on the vaudeville circuit and traveled playing basketball including with Babe Dikrikson's All-American basketball team and the bearded House of David (commune).

On March 20, 1934, Didrikson pitched one inning in a major league baseball spring training exhibition game for the Philadelphia Athletics against the Brooklyn Dodgers. She gave up one walk and no hits. Two days later, on March 22, 1934, Didrikson pitched the first inning of a major league baseball exhibition game for the St. Louis Cardinals against the Boston Red Sox. It was reported that "Under tutelage of Burleigh Grimes, Dizzy Dean, and others she has learned to stand on the rubber, wind up like a big leaguer and throw a rather fair curve." The Red Sox scored three runs against Didrikson in the inning before she got Boston third baseman Bucky Walters to fly out to future Hall of Famer Joe Medwick in left field to end the inning. Didrikson was relieved at the start of the second inning by Cardinal pitcher Bill Hallahan. 400 fans were in attendance. Three days later, on March 25, 1934, she played for the New Orleans Pelicans against the Cleveland Indians, pitching two scoreless innings and lining out in her only plate appearance. Didrikson is still recognized as the world record holder for the farthest baseball throw by a woman. She also participated in multi-day straight pool matches.

By 1935, Didrikson began to play golf, a latecomer to the sport in which she became best known. Shortly thereafter, she was denied amateur status, and so, in January 1938, she competed in the Los Angeles Open, a PGA (Professional Golfers' Association) tournament. No other woman had competed against men in this tournament until Annika Sörenstam, Suzy Whaley, Michelle Wie and Brittany Lincicome almost six decades later. She shot 81 and 84, and missed the cut. In the tournament, she was teamed with George Zaharias, whom she married eleven months later. Babe Didrikson Zaharias became America's first female golf celebrity and the leading player of the 1940s and early 1950s. In order to regain amateur status in the sport, she could compete in no other sports for three years. She gained back her amateur status in 1942. In 1945, she had participated in three more PGA Tour events, missing the second cut of the first of them, and making the cut of the other two. As of 2018, she remains the only woman to have achieved this. Zaharias won the 1946 U.S. Women's Amateur Golf Championship. On June 13, 1947, she became the first American to win the British Ladies Amateur Championship, and that year (1947) won the Women's Western Opens.

Formally turning professional in 1947, Didrikson dominated the Women's Professional Golf Association and later the Ladies Professional Golf Association, of which she was a founding member. Zaharias had her greatest year in 1950 when she completed the Grand Slam of the three women's majors of the day: the U.S. Open, the Titleholders Championship, and the Women's Western Open, a feat that made her the leader on the money list that year. Also that year, she reached 10 wins faster than any other LPGA golfer, doing so in one year and 20 days, a record that still stands. She was the leading money-winner again in 1951, and in 1952 took another major with a Titleholders victory, but cancer prevented her from playing a full schedule in 1952–53. This did not stop her from becoming the fastest player to reach 20 wins (two years and four months). In remission, she continued to win, but reoccurrance of the cancer in 1955 led to her death in 1956.

ZAHARIAS PHOTO ON CARD

Of the numerous pictures and newspaper clipping photographs I viewed, the posed picture of Zaharias shown on the card in Post #48 is the best photograph of her to appear during the over 25 years she had been a multi-sport champion before her death. I located that posed Babe Zaharias picture on the website of the Smithsonian Institute. The picture is also in the New York Public Library's collection. The glossy photograph comes in 8” x 10” and 8” x 12½” (the extra 2½” is a blank, white space extension from one of the the short sides of the photo). Glossy photos can be found without Babe's name imprinted and printed in the same typeface as on the card in Post #48. Reprints are being offered on eBay and elsewhere for around $20.00 each.

The Smithsonian describes the picture as: (1) Title: Mildred 'Babe' Didrickson Zaharias, full-length portrait, facing front, swinging golf club, (2) Date Created/Published: 1947, and (3) Notes: Acme Photo, New York World-Telegraph and Sun Newspapers Photograph Collection No. 806457. The Smithsonian's New York World-Telegraph and Sun Newspapers Collection contains 1,000,000 photographs and negatives and was acquired in the middle to late 1950s after those publications went defunct.

In Post #199, member Jeremy W caught the copyright notice placed at the bottom of my May 7, 2020 Post #198. The following quote from the Smithsonian's website related to the 1947 ACME photo of Babe Zaharias clarifies a reason why many vintage cards have defied full identification. As the world's biggest collector of things, the Smithsonian says:

“Publication and other forms of distribution: May be restricted. The ACME archives was bought by CORBIS, which controlled the copying of ACME images physically housed in its archives in New York City. In 2016, CORBIS was, in turn, sold to Visual China Group (VCG), which arranged to have Getty Images be the exclusive distributor of CORBIS images outside of China.

“Neither VCG nor Getty Images controls the copying of ACME images housed in the Library of Congress. However, any copyright held by ACME that is still current would now be owned by VCG, administered by Getty Images. Getty Images can be contacted at: http://gettyimages.com/customer-support

“In an attempt to determine if ACME registered any copyrights and if those copyrights were renewed, Specialists in the Prints and Photographs Division of the Library of Congress searched the Copyright Office files. It was found that only a few images were registered for copyright and those copyrights were not renewed. However, the Library’s legal office has advised the Division that photographs published with proper copyright notices 95 years ago or less up until 1963 may be protected if the copyright was properly renewed, while works published after 1963 and unpublished photographs in the collection may be protected even if they were not registered with the Copyright Office.”

“Reproduction (photocopying, hand-held camera copying, photoduplication and other forms of copying allowed by "fair use") . . ..” The New York Public Library's website has a similar notice about ACME.

The 1947 Babe Zaharias picture appeared in the Decca Battery advertisement in the August 12, 1950 edition of “Saturday Evening Post.” That year (1950) was Babe Zaharias' best year, with the triple crown of women's golf added to her extensive record of victories.



A highly cropped version of the 1947 Babe Zaharias picture is on the 1990 Sports Illustrated for Kids, Series 1 Card #211.

Much more about the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread 48 card bread package insert set and other sets with like and similar pictures will be posted shortly. Those discussions will not only explain what ACME is, but why some pictures on cards are darker than others and why others may appear more deteriorated. We are organizing the extensive amount of information obtained into a logical order and other additional information about the manufacturers, publishers and years of issue will be presented. “We” is the editorial “we.”

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

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Old 05-17-2020, 03:13 AM
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Ted, here are the pictures from the listing on Ebay. The first photo is the fronts of the card page with Jackie Robinson and the second photo is the backs of the cards on that page.

By the way, he listed these as 1947 Bond Bread cards. The final price realized was $4545.
In response to Posts #213 through #217 about the Sport Star four box set sold on eBay, the pictures of three of the boxes show a small indicia near the opposite edge of the backs from the printed "No. 600." One of those indicias is inverted from the other two. In the picture of the fourth box, the indicia is covered by another part of that box. While the indicia shown in the scans appear to be Chinese or Japanese, they are not. They are merely the product of a low resolution scan of a poorly printed label. From those images, it appears that the indicia might read: "ANPS / 1947©". Can someone provide a clear picture of the indicia or confirm what it says?

Ted, your initial response to Post #213 is not a lapse of memory. You previously indicated that you never had a "Sport Star Subjects" set, a set issued with a different purpose than the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert set. In the more than 60 years from these sets being issued and the start of this thread, many articles, pictures, and inaccurate listings of the cards in these sets and similar ones, have appeared. Most misdescribe the cards and sets as "Bond Bread." Those lists often erroneously included a card that could not have been issued in 1947 for numerous reasons. For example, the player was in a uniform of or identified as being a member of a team he did not join until after 1947. You, like many others, were led to believe what others thought was the year of issue of the "Sport Sar Subjects" set based on misinformation about it. There is no question about your memory of receiving cards inserted into Bond Bread packages. We are fortunate, you have kept alive the fervor of all of those who collected them back then. We are also quite fortunate that you have consistently attempted to correct the "industry" portion of the card collecting hobby to protect collectors from their abuses.

The poor guy who had built a collection of the 12 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson giveaways suffered a paper loss in value when many of those cards turned out not to be rookie cards, but rather issued in 1948 and 1949. All of those cards are still more scarce than the bread package insert cards. With the "Sport Star Subjects" set being dated to 1947, that means it contains many cards that were previously unrecognized as "rookie" cards, including a Jackie Robinson one.

In a future post in this thread, I will explain why the rounded corners of some of the cards in the "Sport Star Subjects" appear to be cut the same as those on some of the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread insert cards. I will also explain why some of the cards in Bond Bread insert set have different cut rounded corners than cards of the same player in that same Bond Bread insert card set. Likewise, the "Sport Star Subjects" set has corner variations. That, and explaining the pictures and printing is taking time to put together, but it will be posted.

Thanks, Mike

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Old 05-18-2020, 12:29 PM
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Today, in searching for more information on Bond Bread cards, I found being offered on eBay the following item described as a 1947 counter top tent display. The sign says there was "bubble gum" along with the cards in bread packages. Can anyone explain this?



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Old 05-18-2020, 02:22 PM
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Michael, I read through your two lengthy posts and maybe I am having a case of the Mondays, but I didn't see any information about the cards. Can you recap, in a sentence who you think made the various cards that didn't come in the bread packages?
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
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Michael, I read through your two lengthy posts and maybe I am having a case of the Mondays, but I didn't see any information about the cards. Can you recap, in a sentence who you think made the various cards that didn't come in the bread packages?
I hear that. I thought maybe it was only me.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:13 PM
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I appreciate that many may want just a quick name to label their cards by. But just thowing out a name is how the problem started over 50 years ago . . . everything became a "Bond Bread" card. It's taken over ten years for this thread to reach this point and still no real agreement on just what the various sets are.

For example, the perforated cards are not just perforated on 3 sides but also on two and four sides. I am reconstructing sheets to see if the baseball player side of those cards was printed in the same format as the Bond Bread package insert cards and the Sport Star Subject sets. To one who only collects baseball cards, the popularity of calling one of those cards by the player name and saying it has Cowboy or some other back may seem sufficient. But look at the three sided perforated card bearing the player signature that reads "Cid Gordon." To merely call it a perforated Gordon Card with a Cowboy back would be both a collecting error and financial mistake. The "Cowboy" pictured on the back is Gene Autry. There are more collectors of entertainment cards who avidly seek obscure cards of Gene Autry than baseball card collectors who can tell you who Sid Gordon is.

Some others of these "Cowboy" or "Westerns" backed perforated cards, contain stills of key scenes from some of the most popular movies of the day. At least one has printed in very small type the movie title and the names of the actors along with their key phrase from that scene, which, like "As may the force be with you" did from "Star Wars" entered into the spoken language of popular culture of the time. We either know what these cards are, or are merely holding them to pass off for profit.

I believe that without the background information being provided, the questions about these sets will continue long after the currently remaining facts about them are lost.

I was just mailed a card from a set I can find no record of. It has the same player picture as that player is pictured in the sets of the Bond Bread package inserts, Sport Star Subjects, Exhibits, and others. Like you, I too want to figure out what it is that I have. When it arrives, I will post pictures.

Thank you for understanding,

Mike

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Old 05-18-2020, 06:58 PM
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P.S. I need your help. Can anybody provide the actual wording of the printed small type not clearly shown in the pictures in Post #48 near the bottom of the left of the two backs pictured (not the back rubbered-stamped "Hess Shoes"). It appears to me to say something like: "A-N PICTURES SERVICE." Also in Post #216, the pictures of the backs of three of the four Sport Star Subjects set boxes show an illegible two line indicia which to me might read as "ANPS / 1947©." Can anyone provide what either of these two say? If you can post a high resolution scan of either, that would be better.

Thanks again,

Mike

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Old 05-18-2020, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abctoo View Post
P.S. I need your help. Can anybody provide the actual wording of the printed small type not clearly shown in the pictures in Post #48 near the bottom of the left of the two backs pictured (not the back rubbered-stamped "Hess Shoes"). It appears to me to say something like: "A-N PICTURES SERVICE." Also in Post #216, the pictures of the backs of three of the four Sport Star Subjects set boxes show an illegible two line indicia which to me might read as "ANPS / 1947©." Can anyone provide what either of these two say? If you can post a high resolution scan of either, that would be better.

Thanks again,

Mike
I took the pictures from the Ebay listing, and blew them up, also turned them upside down to see if that helped decipher what is written. I'm not sure what it says. Maybe someone else can read it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg back of blue box.JPG (26.6 KB, 409 views)
File Type: jpg blue box upside down magnified less.JPG (19.9 KB, 402 views)
File Type: jpg back of brown box.JPG (20.3 KB, 407 views)
File Type: jpg back of brown box upside down.JPG (24.2 KB, 406 views)
File Type: jpg back of green box.JPG (39.4 KB, 403 views)
File Type: jpg back of green box upside down magnified.JPG (19.0 KB, 402 views)
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:22 AM
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Thanks, David. I could see no better when I tried to blow up those box pictures. Perhaps, someone out there who has a box or other picture of the indicia would help us out by posting a scan? David, the Sport Star Subjects set box issues are not new to you. For example, in Posts #123 and #126 of 08-02-2016, you pictured a similar box for the "Navy Ships" set, that set and promotional material of it. Those pictures clearly show the box and promotional item are inscribed with the name of A.J. Wildman & Son of New York. It would have been easy to let it go at that. Your posts also explained why that was not the solution to identifying the Sport Star Subjects set.

I am a collector, but not just a collector of baseball cards. My analysis of what the box indicia say comes from when I was a teenager in the 1960s starting to build a postal history collection including 19th Century congressional free franking covers. I am just now in the process of selling that collection off. That meant I had to learn how to decipher many a scrawled hand- written signature that on its face appeared unreadable. I still cannot get them all, even though complete alphabetical lists and chronological lists of each two year session of Congress are readily available. Just like many of the sets and their cards lumped together under the "Bond Bread" label, we have pictures of some and descriptions of others, but that is insufficient to even adequately describe that we can hold in our hands or even see.

The next post in this thread of my articles on Bond Bread and associated sets will identify the copyright holder of the sports pictures shown in the many of those sets, and how that company not only had the facilities to reproduce 7,000 to 10,000 glossy photographs from a single negative in a day, but handled 100s, if not 1,000s of negatives daily, routinely distributing box loads of prints by train, truck and other methods. The attribution of the Team Photo Packs sold in ballparks will be made to that company based on the empirical evidence gathered, even though none of us saw what happened and we have no contracts or invoices identifying anything.

The 1948 Bowman set includes a cropped version of at least one of the pictures used in the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert set. That's 1948 Bowman #43 Bruce Edwards. Does the counter-top sign I posted yesterday which indicates each large loaf Bond Bread package would have both a Bond Bread card and bubble gum inside mean that the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert set should considered the rookie set of the Bowman Company? Even if it were the same gum as Bowman's, I don't think so. But anyone out there can help in identifying the sets by posting any information or comments they might have about the question of whether there was bubble gum inside the Bond Bread packages.

Thank you very much,

Mike

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Old 05-19-2020, 07:58 AM
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Mike

The source for the images in the original 1947 BOND BREAD cards (issued Summer 1947)….1947 TIP TOP BREAD, subsequent
similar cards (issued circa 1949), 1948 and 1949 BOWMAN cards, etc. are from the Major League (and Minor League) Stadium
issued Team Photo packs (examples shown here).
I have traced the source of these Photos to the Harry M. Stevens Publishing Co., who produced the Major (and Minor) League
Yearbooks since the early 1920's.

Some examples of the 1947 and 1948 Team Photo packs...…









Harry M. Stevens Publishing Co.




TED Z

T206 Reference
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Old 05-19-2020, 11:20 AM
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Ted, you're are sure going in the right direction and know your stuff. In 1923, ACME Newspictures Service was founded to take over much of the Scripps' newspaper chain and syndicate's collection, processing and distribution of the newsphoto side of the business. What ACME does and how they got there is a longer story. The impact of ACME was glossed over in the discussions in other net54 ball threads about which cards of the Bond Bread Jackie Robinson special set are rookie cards. Those threads used the caption on ACME's photo pictured on one of those cards to establish it could not have been issued before 1949. For use in this thread, I am including here from one of those threads the photos of the card, the front of the ACME photo and its back which provided the details. Unfortunately, those pictures were posted before photobucket starting overprinting pictures and now have that overprint. If anyone can post them without photobucket's overprint, many of us reading this thread, as well as those engaged in the other threads, would be much appreciative. Thanks, Mike





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Old 05-20-2020, 12:40 AM
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Here's some information from Wikipedia about Harry M. Stevens, the publisher of the scorecard shown two post above:

"Harry Mozley Stevens {AKA Hotdog man} (14 June 1855 – 3 May 1934) was a food concessionaire from England who has been variously attributed as the inventor of the hot dog, but has nevertheless been credited with being America's foremost ballpark concessionaire. In 1887 he founded Harry M Stevens Inc., a stadium concessions company which was based in Cranbury, New Jersey until it was acquired by Aramark on December 12, 1994. Harry Stevens was born in London in 1855 but had connections to Litchurch in Derby, England. He emigrated to Niles, Ohio in the 1880s.

"On arrival in the States, he became obsessed with baseball and quickly made his mark by designing and selling the sport's first scorecard - a design still in use to this day. By 1900, Stevens had secured contracts to supply refreshments at several Major League ballparks across the US. He also began to sell scorecards to fans with the phrase: "You can't tell the players without a scorecard."

"Stevens is credited with telling the story that at the home opener of the New York Giants on a cold April day in 1901 there was limited demand for ice cream. He decided to sell German sausages known as 'dachshund sausages.' When the staff ran out of the wax paper on which the sausages were traditionally served Stevens had one of his employees purchase some buns and had the staff place the hot dogs in the buns, creating what became known today as the hot dog. A cartoonist, recording the event, was reputed to have been unable to spell dachshund, so wrote hot dogs instead. The family has since acquired the original cartoon and has preserved it."

Before the company was sold in 1994, if any one of us walked up to any big league ballpark in the country, a hawker would try to sell us one of Stevens' scorecards. If we bought any food from a concessionaire, we bought food from the Stevens Company. Like the Coca-Cola and Cracker Jacks Stevens sold, the company did not make the Team Photo Packs. Think about it. If the 48 card Bond Bread set was based on Team Photo Packs, where did the four pictures of the boxers come from? Something to think about.
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:07 PM
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part One (Working)

The “1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ? “ title of the net54ball thread started in 2009 by Ted Zanidakas got right to the point. At that time, numerous cards with pictures similar to the 48 cards of the 1947-48 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert card set had been misidentified as belonging to that set. The size of these other cards did not matter, nor did questions about whether they had rounded or square corners, nor did the fact that some had printed or rubber-stamped text or pictures on the back, nor did the thickness or toning of the paperstock on which they were printed. Now after a dozen years, we find that the convenience to the card marketplace for an easy identifications of can have value has fully distorted proper attribution of many of these cards. Many of them, including the cards of 1947-48 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert set, come from sets that are quite scarce, if not downright rare.

The purpose of this Appendix is not to put names on these sets. That will be done in the body of this article as its parts are posted. Rather, this Appendix is an attempt to identify all of the issues that have been attributed in someway or another as a “1947 Bond Bread “ card or set. YOUR HELP IS NEEDED! Whether you agree or disagree with what is written in this appendix, please participate by posting in the thread your comments, criticisms and especially scans of any cards not already pictured that come from any set that could be misdescribed as “Bond Bread.” You will be helping us all. Even just the posting of a scan of one of these missing cards adds to the pool of knowledge. While the quantities issued of some of these various sets may be high, few cards have survived. Please, if you can just post any picture of one of these cards (front and back) by itself, you will create a record so that others years from now won't have to start all over again when perhaps the specific card you have is no longer available.

The magnitude of the 1947-1948 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert issue demonstrates that General Baking with its Bond Bread (first baked in 1915) product promotion was no new comer to advertising. How many cards were issued can be be derived from a pre-War Bond Bread blotter promotion, which included the following blotter:




A million loafs of bread baked daily by 1940. If all loafs had one of the 48 cards of the 1947-48 Homogenized Bond Bread packet insert card, that's 1,000,000 cards used each day. At least, thirty million a month could have been inserted from about April 1947 into perhaps March 1948, with the promotion increasing the month volume of Bond Bread sales. That could be over a billion cards! Where they are? We do not know. Very few have turned up in over 70 years. Most of the known cards that can be accurately attributed are in the hands of those who took them out of the bread packages. When WWII started, the Bond Bread blotter promotion was shifted to picturing Navy Airplanes, a theme that was carried over into its then ongoing matchbook issues. Post-War, the blotter program shifted to picturing “Modern Miracles” and related topics. The 1947-1948 Homogenized Bond Bread package insert set appears to have been its next major promotion. What it did between 1948 and 1950 is not fully clear. We do know that beginning in 1947 Bond Bread began giving away the 12-13 (or more?) cards of its special Jackie Robinson set and that promotion continued to at least 1949. The Jackie Robinson 1947-48 Homogenized Bond Bread packet insert card would have been issued in 1947 to capitalize on the other Jackie Robinson giveaways and would be missed if not immediately available to fans. In 1950-1951 Bond Bread sponsored Hopalong Cassidy on the radio and issued 2x3 inch Hopalong Cassidy cards, one to each bread package like it had done with its 48 sports card set in 1947-48. Note that the bread package seal pictures Hopalong Cassidy. Over 30 bread package seals were issue, each with an individual number starting with the number "1."



To not overload an individual post, this Appendix is being split into parts, and will continue with the posting of Part Two.

Please respond with anything you might want to say or show. Such contributions will be welcomed by all of us. Posting pictures is even better.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

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Old 05-28-2020, 05:56 AM
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Michael - fun to see you diving in. Can I ask a simpleton's question?

Why are you attempting to (or perhaps successfully) copyrighting message board posts? I cannot for the life of me envision a scenario where someone is going to attempt to steal your intellectual property for their own gain, on a relatively obscure 70+ year old bread/baseball crossover set.

feels a bit unnecessary. especially since most of the info you've provided has been aggregated from already publicly available documents. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the work/effort you're putting in, but we all have google (and Ted) to tell us this information.
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:05 AM
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In the late 1960s, I acquired a lot of ancient holed cast coins of Korea from the estate of the grandchildren of a missionary who brought them back to the United States in the late 1870s. I spent over two years researching and identifying more than 3,700 hundred different ones. Only about 10% of them were known from the period of the several centuries they covered. I even make detailed drawings. Besides my extensive independent research, many collectors provided invaluable information and incite on the subject. I had thought we all understood that the work was soon to be published for benefit of us all, with the contributors receiving free copies of the final product. At the request of Edgar Mandel of Coral Gables, Florida, who claimed to have some significant information, I sent a near final working draft. In response, he published it as its author and offered it for sale at a high price. None of us, not even I, received a free copy for our contributions.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

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Old 05-28-2020, 09:32 PM
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Two (Working)


1. The 48 card set (44 baseball players and 4 boxers) inserted in 1947-1948 into Homogenized Bond Bread packages.

Characteristics:

1. Printed on one side
2. White Paper Stock
3. Corners
a. Some with very crudely cut/die cut rounded corners
b. Most with distinctive die cutting, but not of the quality of playing cards

The confusion with look-a-likes and the lack of ability on the part of most people and grading services makes it quite often impossible to tell one apart from another. True Bond Bread cards are actually quite scarce if not rare. If I was one who actually took a card out of a Bond Bread package or obtained it from someone I knew conclusively actually did, then I would take a small card-size piece of paper, give it a heading of “DECLARATION,” and put in the following text: “I, [name] declare under penalty of perjury that I [or if appropriate insert the following phrase: “acquired this card from [name] who”] personally obtained the attached card from a package of Homogenized Bond Bread.,” then date and sign. I would keep the declaration with the card.



2. 1947 Team Photo Packs.

Before and after WWII, real photographs of members of individual baseball teams were available from several sources in a variety of sizes, such 5” x 7”, 6½” x 9” and 8” x 10”, and usually were sold at ballparks, by mail, on some news-stands and in some variety stores. The envelope containing a team set could vary by publisher, and different team sets from the same publisher could vary in the number of photographs from 8 to 31. Most of the team photo packs had printed on the outside of the envelope containing them at least an identification of the team by its name or team logo. Some were dated, but most were not. It was not an uncommon practice to not change a previous year's team photo set if all of the players pictured in the prior year still remained on the team. That was especially true during the early post-WWII years of 1946, 1947 and 1948. Publishers of these sets could be the team itself, the maker of the Team Photo Packs sold by ballpark concessioneer Harry M. Stevens, or others.

The printing and developing of the large quantity of photographs needed to supply the demand was no small task. The volume of photograph needed meant that the printing and developing would have begun long before the new baseball season started. Large photographic printing companies had machines that could print 10,000 glossy real photos from a single negative within an 8 hour day. A single team set containing 25 photographs could require the equivalent of twenty-five 8-hour workdays to produce. Of course, these companies had many more than just one machine to process negatives. Such machines ran 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (except when down for maintenance), to recoup their high purchase prices. Sets of more popular teams sold in larger quantities than those of other teams. To be ready for a new season, the quantities of sets made for an individual team could depend on how many of the previous year's sets had sold or still remained. That was determined long before the new season started, with new printings in a sufficient supply to last throughout the season. The timing can lead to interesting mix-ups in Team Photo Packs. For example, a portrait of Joe Gordon in a Cleveland Indians uniform was included in the 1947 Indians Team Photo Pack, and he does not appear in the 1947 Yankees Team Photo Pack – the pack of the team he actually played for in 1947. The Bond Bread insert set and look-a-likes show Joe Gordon in an action shot in a Yankees uniform, and not his portrait in an Indians uniform.



Similarly, the following pictures are from the 1947 Team Photo Packs sold by Harry M. Stevens in ballparks. The Bond Bread insert set and look-a-likes show actions shots instead. Below are such examples of the portrait type photographs in the initial printing of the player's respective team photograph sets sold in the ballparks – Bob Feller (Indians), Ken Keltner (Indians) and Gil Hodges (Dodgers).




A Duke Snider “rookie” is not in the Bond Bread set, but is in the Dodgers Team Photo Pack. He earned a tryout with the Brooklyn Dodgers during their Spring training in 1947. Snider played his first game with the Dodgers (and in the Major Leagues) on April 17, 1947, the second day of the season. In early July, he was sent down to the St. Paul Saints, but returned to the Dodgers at the end of the season in time to play against the New York Yankees in the 1947 World Series. In all, in 1947 he played 39 Major League games during the regular season. Timing is everything with production and distribution of products related to baseball. Snider's absence from the Bond Bread insert set could suggest the 1947 Dodgers Team Photo Sets were produced before Spring training without him, or were reprinted during the season because the existing supply did not meet the demand.

Very few, if any of the glossy photos from the Team Photo Packs ever get misdescribed as “Bond Bread” photos. Yet, much of the discussion about the source of the photos used on the Bond Bread cards and their look-a-likes can only compound the public's confusion about what is what. I've seen complete, individual Team Photo Sets from 1946 through 1950 on the internet at prices from $50 to $250 or more, with some hipping certain individual players for more.

We can all help clarify the Team Photo Pack issues. If anyone has a Team Photo Pack from 1946 through 1948 of any of the teams of players appearing on the “Bond Bread” insert set, please confirm that the picture in the individual teams set is or is not the same as that on the Bond Bread insert card. My limited access to such sets has led me to only the following identifications. I have used the word, “pix” to mean picture.

NEW YORK GIANTS
-------------------
JOHNNY MIZE (pix in the 1948 Giants Team Photo Pack)
SID GORDON (not yet determined)
LARRY JANSEN (pix in 1948 Team Photo Pack)
SHELDON JONES (pix in 1948 Team Photo Pack)
BUDDY KERR (pix in 1948 Team Photo Pack)
WHITEY LOCKMAN (pix in the Giants 1948 Team Photo Pack)
WILLARD MARSHALL (not yet determined)
BOBBY THOMSON (pix in the Giants 1948 Team Photo Pack)

Note: the Walker Cooper pix (not part of Bond Bread set) but discussed in this thread is in the 1948 Team Photo Pack

BROOKLYN DODGERS
--------------------
JACKIE ROBINSON (pix in 1947 Dodgers Team Photo Pack)
REX BARNEY (Not in the 1947 Team Photo Pack)
RALPH BRANCA (pix in 1947 Team Photo Pack)
BRUCE EDWARDS (not yet determined)
CARL FURILLO (pix in 1947 Dodgers Tetam Photo Pack)
JOE HATTEN (pix in 1947 Dodgers Team Photo Pack)
GIL HODGES (card is different picture than 1947 Dodgers Team Photo Pack)
PEE WEE REESE (pix in 1947 Dodgers Team Photo Pack)

NEW YORK YANKEES
--------------------
JOE DiMAGGIO (same as Team Photo Pack)
LARRY BERRA (same as Team Photo Pack)
JOE GORDON (NOT IN Yankees Team Photo Pack, but in Indians uniform in 1947 Indians Team Photo Pack, he was traded by the Indians to the Yankees Oct. 11, 1946 for Allie Reynolds)
CHARLIE KELLER (same as Team Photo Pack)
JOHNNY LINDELL (same as Team Photo Pack)
PHIL RIZZUTO (same as Team Photo Pack)
AARON ROBINSON (unknown pix included in Team Photo Pack)

BOSTON RED SOX
------------------
TED WILLIAMS 1947-47 Red Sox Team Photo Pack has portrait of Williams, not action shot as Bond Bread card)
DOM DIMAGGIO (1947-47 Red Sox Team Photo Pack has portrait of Dom DiMaggio , not action shot as Bond Bread card)
BOBBY DOERR (1947-47 Red Sox Team Photo Pack has portrait of Doerr, not action shot as Bond Bread card)
JOHNNY PESKY

CLEVELAND INDIANS
---------------------
BOB FELLER (The 1947 Indians Team Photo Pack has a portrait of Bob Feller, not an action shot like the Bond Bread set)
LOU BOUDREAU (1948 Indians Team Pack has portrait of Boudeau, Feller and Keltner, not action shots)
KEN KELTNER (The 1947 Indians Team Photo Pack has a portrait of Ken Keltner, not an action shot like the Bond Bread set)
GEORGE (BIRDIE') TEBBETTS (not yet determined)

ST LOUIS CARDINALS
----------------------
STAN MUSIAL (not yet determined)
HARRY BRECHEEN (not yet determined)
ENOS SLAUGHTER (not yet determined)

BOSTON BRAVES
-----------------
JOHNNY SAIN (not yet determined)
BOB ELLIOTT (not yet determined)
TOMMY HOLMES (not yet determined)

CINCINNATI REDS
-------------------
EWELL BLACKWELL (not yet determined)
JOHNNY VANDERMEER (not yet determined)

CHICAGO CUBS
-------------
ANDY PAFKO (not yet determined)

PHILADELPHIA ATHLETICS
--------------------------
EDDIE JOOST (not yet determined)

PHILADELPHIA PHILLIES
-------------------------
DEL ENNIS (not yet determined)

PITTSBURGH PIRATES
----------------------
RALPH KINER (not yet determined)

ST LOUIS BROWNS
-------------------
VERN STEPHENS (not yet determined)


Let's put an end to the serious “Bond Bread” debacle. Your contributions can help prevent collectors from being misled and paying too much for a mislabeled item, and can increase the value of other cards that have been cast aside as merely “Bond Bread” ones. Today, I saw on the internet a card called “Ted Williams Card From Bond Bread,” which is pictured below. [Ted said to “show us your cards.”] If I even said its the wrong picture, would I be saying too much?





To not overload an individual post, this Appendix is being split into parts, and will continue with the posting of Part Three.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521
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  #236  
Old 05-29-2020, 07:50 PM
Scott Janzen Scott Janzen is offline
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Default Bond Bread

Hello all, and thanks to the administrators for letting me in. Although I have used OldCardboard.com and PreWarCards.com extensively these past few months, I only discovered this site yesterday after doing a Google search for "Bond Bread Baseball Cards". I'm thrilled to have read this insightful discussion and thank Ted for opening the thread with his experience and insight and Michael (ABCToo) for his great research.

I did not collect many pre-war cards until this year; but now I love all of the great old issues, especially these and Exhibits cards with all of there wonderful black and white photographic images. In buying some cards on Ebay I have done research on PSA, the grading site. It seemed obvious that there is confusion about the Homogenized Bond Bread issue and classification/origin. This group has opened my eyes to what reality is. I agree with most of the analysis of what is, and what isn't a Bond Bread card.

Ok, newbies first comment and/or question about the actual post: While I agree that many of these cards are infacto Rookie Cards of many of the ballplayers of the era, is it possible that this fact has been ignored because Bond Bread was not widely distributed throughout the USA in that era? It seems it may have been more of a regional bread and card distribution in the east coast areas (where admittedly most of the ball clubs existed in the 1940's). Please correct my assumption if this is inaccurate. Thanks
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  #237  
Old 05-30-2020, 06:41 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Janzen View Post
Hello all, and thanks to the administrators for letting me in. Although I have used OldCardboard.com and PreWarCards.com extensively these past few months, I only discovered this site yesterday after doing a Google search for "Bond Bread Baseball Cards". I'm thrilled to have read this insightful discussion and thank Ted for opening the thread with his experience and insight and Michael (ABCToo) for his great research.

I did not collect many pre-war cards until this year; but now I love all of the great old issues, especially these and Exhibits cards with all of there wonderful black and white photographic images. In buying some cards on Ebay I have done research on PSA, the grading site. It seemed obvious that there is confusion about the Homogenized Bond Bread issue and classification/origin. This group has opened my eyes to what reality is. I agree with most of the analysis of what is, and what isn't a Bond Bread card.

Ok, newbies first comment and/or question about the actual post: While I agree that many of these cards are infacto Rookie Cards of many of the ballplayers of the era, is it possible that this fact has been ignored because Bond Bread was not widely distributed throughout the USA in that era? It seems it may have been more of a regional bread and card distribution in the east coast areas (where admittedly most of the ball clubs existed in the 1940's). Please correct my assumption if this is inaccurate. Thanks
Welcome Scott,

I much appreciate your post. To me, the Bond Bread insert set is a regional issue. I grew up in the Oakland area of California. In the late 1940s and into the 1950s, the three Big Leagues for me were the Pacific Coast League, the National League and the American League. We had no MBL until 1958, when two "regional" teams moved from New York, one to San Francisco and the other to Los Angeles.

Today, the 1946-1950 Oakland Oaks bread sets are listed in many catalogs "Remar Bread Oakland Oaks." By 1947, the name on the bread packages changed from the baking company's name of "Remar" to their brand name, "Sunbeam." Being so young then, I had never heard of "Remar Bread," only of "Sunbeam Bread." To go to an extreme, you could ask why the "Bond Bread" and "Tip Top Bread" sets are not called the "General Baking" sets after the name of their baking company.

Scott, I hope I'm not rambling too much, but you are right in raising the issue of what is a "rookie" card.

In the 1980s as the "rookie" card hype and demand rapidly increased, many started or returned to card collecting because they could find quantities of current cards and sell them at outrageous prices. In new cards issues, manufacturers even began to replace journeymen players with untried rookies and special "inserts." It was even debated whether the Mark Maguire Olympics baseball card from the 1984 Topps baseball set was his "rookie" card because he did not play in the Major Leagues until later. Desipte the tens of thousands of a single card being graded, Wow! -- the demand and prices just grew, with "rookie" cards and special inserts still a main selling factor of new sets today.

Well, if you can get that kind of money for a common card, what about the "rookie" cards of retired players, especially those in the Hall of Fame? But these weren't that easy to find as those few who had been collecting for years before had found out. Without an adequate supply to meet the hyped-up demand for "rookie" cards, what did they do? First, they dropped the idea that a "rookie" card had to be issued the first year a player played professional baseball (those playing in the minor leagues also get paid). Such cards just did not exist for too many players. Then, they sidestepped the idea that a "rookie" had to be the actual first card a player appeared on. No adequate supply of regionally issued cards existed to touch the "rookie" card demand for old players.

Well, what are often considered as "the major" companies had had wide scale distribution of cards with sets including these players. And, obviously while not available in the quantities of "rookie" cards of the 1980s, "rookie" cards could be found and sold to meet demand. The Jackie Robinson 1948 Leaf baseball card fit the requirement. Though this card is not from his first year playing in the Major Leagues (1947 was his Major League rookie year) and was issued a year after his 1947 Bond Bread insert card and some of his other Bond Bread giveaways, in the parlance of the trade, the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson card is his "rookie card."

Scott, again thank you for your post. Keep them coming. I took to heart what you said. You've helped me understand just how easily a label can be put on something that has different meanings to different people. That's one of the problems in distinguishing Bond Bread package insert and giveaway cards from the many others erroneously labeled as "Bond Bread" cards. In the future, I will attempt to not label cards merely as "rookie" cards, but will identify them as either: (1) issued during the player's first year playing professional baseball, (2) first year playing in the Major Leagues, (3) first card issued of player, or (4) first card issued by set manufacturer. That's a lot more words than saying "rookie" card, but at least it won't be so ambiguous that somebody could think we're talking about something.

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 05-30-2020 at 06:55 AM.
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  #238  
Old 05-30-2020, 10:22 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abctoo View Post
Well, what are often considered as "the major" companies had had wide scale distribution of cards with sets including these players. And, obviously while not available in the quantities of "rookie" cards of the 1980s, "rookie" cards could be found and sold to meet demand. The Jackie Robinson 1948 Leaf baseball card fit the requirement. Though this card is not from his first year playing in the Major Leagues (1947 was his Major League rookie year) and was issued a year after his 1947 Bond Bread insert card and some of his other Bond Bread giveaways, in the parlance of the trade, the 1948 Leaf Jackie Robinson card is his "rookie card."
Mike
Mike
The 1949 LEAF set is NOT a "1948 Leaf" issue. LEAF issued a Boxing set, Football set, and Pirates set in 1948. I collected all these cards as a very young fellow back then.

The 98 subjects in the 1949 LEAF set were issued in two Series. The first 49 cards were issued in early Spring 1949. The 2nd Series of 49 cards were issued circa July - Aug 1949.
Furthermore, this 2nd Series of cards were regionally limited to distribution only in the Boston area, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio (and perhaps the St. Louis area). I published an 8-page
article on this set in the OLD CARDBOARD magazine (Issue #9). Check-it-out.
So, please get your facts straight regarding these LEAF sets.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
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  #239  
Old 05-30-2020, 01:05 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
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Mike
The 1949 LEAF set is NOT a "1948 Leaf" issue. LEAF issued a Boxing set, Football set, and Pirates set in 1948. I collected all these cards as a very young fellow back then.

The 98 subjects in the 1949 LEAF set were issued in two Series. The first 49 cards were issued in early Spring 1949. The 2nd Series of 49 cards were issued circa July - Aug 1949.
Furthermore, this 2nd Series of cards were regionally limited to distribution only in the Boston area, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio (and perhaps the St. Louis area). I published an 8-page
article on this set in the OLD CARDBOARD magazine (Issue #9). Check-it-out.
So, please get your facts straight regarding these LEAF sets.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.
Ted, you are absolutely correct. I make no excuses and should have been more careful. I did exactly what my response to Scott said should not be done.

I had intended to post a picture of what many call the "rookie" card of Jackie Robinson but nodded off. When I woke up, I did a bing search for a "Jackie Robinson rookie card" to get a picture and found Old Sports Cards blog article entitled “Jackie Robinson Baseball Cards: The Ultimate Collectors Guide” at
https://www.oldsportscards.com/jacki...aseball-cards/ . Old Sports Cards said: "1948 Leaf #79 Jackie Robinson Rookie Card / Estimated PSA 8 Value: $45,000 / There is only one true rookie card for Jackie Robinson, and that is the iconic 1948 Leaf." Still in a daze, I adjusted my post and submitted it without taking time to even add a picture.

Ted, after I read your post, I retraced my steps to understand what I had done. One of the next items in the search was a direct link to the PSA company's website: https://www.psacard.com/cardfacts/ba...nson-79/21593/ That webpage said: “This is the only true rookie card of baseball's first African-American representative and hero to all,” and showed the following picture.



We both know the Leaf card was issued in 1949, not 1948. As I put in my response to Scott above, the use of a "rookie" label to identify a card is extremely misleading, and often used not merely inaccurately, but for profit. Even if someone thought that a true "rookie" card could only be one that was issued by a gum manufacturer (like Topps, Bowman or Leaf), the 1948 Swell Sports Thrills #3 Jackie Robinson would predate the 1949 Leaf card.

Ted, if you could post a direct link to your OLDCARDBOARD article, I think many would appreciate it. I appreciate you keeping me straight.

Thanks, Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 05-30-2020 at 02:20 PM.
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  #240  
Old 05-30-2020, 01:34 PM
Scott Janzen Scott Janzen is offline
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Default "Rookie"

I didn't want to misdirect the theme of this thread into another debate ...lol, but as it relates to the Bond Bread issue, I saw an Ebay listing this week that i thought was rather profound. It was for a 1947 Bond Bread Stan Musial (I believe) and the listing called it his "Pre-Rookie" card.

BTW...another "round corner" lot of Bond Bread, with a nice Jackie Robinson, sold for $899 this morning. With the Bond issue I have also seen several card grading companies lately that I have never heard of prior to digging into the sales of this issue.

Since many here seem to have the experience and expertise on the Bond Bread issue, have any of you actually contacted any of the card grading to clarify the issue? Unfortunately there are so many existing graded cards that likely was mis-labeled previously it would likely be a huge embarrassment to them and their so-called expertise. Again historical usage will likely prevail, unlike poor Pluto which was demoted from Planetary status, despite decades of public "knowledge". Sorry for the ramble
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  #241  
Old 05-30-2020, 01:53 PM
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to that end; we can all agree that THIS is Robinson's real rookie card, not the yellow background Leaf issue - despite the premium and notoriety of the Leaf card.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1947 Jackie Robinson.jpg (77.6 KB, 491 views)
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  #242  
Old 05-30-2020, 02:13 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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to that end; we can all agree that THIS is Robinson's real rookie card, not the yellow background Leaf issue - despite the premium and notoriety of the Leaf card.
Joe, you're beating me to my next post. From the scan, we cannot tell if the card was a Bond Bread package insert card or from the "Sport Star Subjects" set. Some in this thread have said they purchased the "Sport Star Subjects" set in 1947, while others say it was issued in 1949. One thing is certain. The individual cards taken out of Bond Bread packages were handled by more people than cards in the "Sports Star Subjects" set and generally should show more signs of wear. We should not assume that just because a card has a white back and rounded corners that it came from a Bond Bread package.

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  #243  
Old 05-30-2020, 02:18 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Janzen View Post
I didn't want to misdirect the theme of this thread into another debate ...lol, but as it relates to the Bond Bread issue, I saw an Ebay listing this week that i thought was rather profound. It was for a 1947 Bond Bread Stan Musial (I believe) and the listing called it his "Pre-Rookie" card.

BTW...another "round corner" lot of Bond Bread, with a nice Jackie Robinson, sold for $899 this morning. With the Bond issue I have also seen several card grading companies lately that I have never heard of prior to digging into the sales of this issue.

Since many here seem to have the experience and expertise on the Bond Bread issue, have any of you actually contacted any of the card grading to clarify the issue? Unfortunately there are so many existing graded cards that likely was mis-labeled previously it would likely be a huge embarrassment to them and their so-called expertise. Again historical usage will likely prevail, unlike poor Pluto which was demoted from Planetary status, despite decades of public "knowledge". Sorry for the ramble
These companies make no distinction between Bond Bread issues and the cards in the "Sport Star Subjects" set. What people are buying may not be what they think it is.
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  #244  
Old 06-01-2020, 06:04 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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. . ..
Ted, if you could post a direct link to your OLDCARDBOARD article, I think many would appreciate it.
Ted, if you do not have a direct internet link to your article on the 1949 Leaf issue, are you able to scan that article and post it here? This thread is read and quoted by many. Get your message out. While OLD CARDBOARD website is popular, its magazine is obscure and not read by many. I'd hate to see someone make another $45,000 mistake in accepting PSA's definition that the only true Jackie Robinson rookie card is the 1948 1949 Leaf #79 Jackie Robinson card.

Thanks, Mike
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:19 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
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Default 1949 LEAF set

Mike
You can contact Lyman Hardeman at Old Cardboard and he will send you a copy of Issue #9, which has my article on the 1949 LEAF set.

Also, click on my 1949 LEAF thread here on Net54 (121 interesting Posts).... https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ight=1949+LEAF





TED Z

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Last edited by tedzan; 06-01-2020 at 03:29 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
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  #246  
Old 06-07-2020, 04:53 AM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Three (Working)

1. The 48 card set (44 baseball players and 4 boxers) inserted in 1947-1948 into Homogenized Bond Bread packages
[continued]

Characteristics {continued]:

3 Corners
a. Some with very crudely cut/die cut rounded corners (not to be confused with cards altered to make them appear as Bond Bread cards)
b. Most with distinctive die cutting, but not of the quality of playing cards

4. Size

The next scan is an example of the significant variation in the width of the Homogenized Bond Bread package insert cards. The scan after that shows that while the height of these insert cards does vary, the height variation is not as significant as with the width. The pictures are merely examples and not inclusive of all dimensional variations.





5. Die Cutting

The die-cutting of the corners of the Bond Bread package insert cards was done by the same manufacturer that die-cut the card corners and boxes (packages) for the “Sport Star Subjects”, the “Screen Star Subjects”, and the boxes of the W673 “Navy Ships” sets. The “Navy Ships” set is mentioned in Posts #123 (box picture) and #126 (cards in set) above. The manufacturer was not the playing card company AARCO as some have suggested. Rather, it was a bigger company founded in the Nineteenth Century that used the same die-cutting for the packages of its myriad of products sold worldwide. The die-cutting process, that company's capabilities, and involvement will be explained in the main body of the text of this article. I do not understand what the difficulty has been in identifying the manufacturer. Some of its baseball products have been listed in a variety of catalogs including the 1960 ACC.

6. Printing

Each player card was printed from several lead mold die cuts, which were replaced as each wore out. All of the die cuts used for an individual player were made from the same original screened print. Cards printed from a newly molded die cut are virtually identical. As the image on the lead mold wore down during the printing process, each individual cut would begin to show its own distinctive wear that progressively increased with its particular defeats becoming more pronounced as the printing continued until the die cut was replaced. Then everything would look “new” again, until that new cut began to wear down.

With a potential of 1,000,000 cards inserted every day into a Bond Bread package, if all 48 cards were printed at the same time rather than in series of 12 so as to leave the customers with something new to find later on, that means 20,000 of each player card would be printed for just one day's bread supply. It would take up to 4 lead molded cuts per player to print just one day's supply. If they were printed in series of 12 cards in units of 4 per sheet, then four times the amount of die cuts, or up to 12 cuts would be used to print the cards needed for just a day's supply of bread. Not enough of these cards can now be found to determine which die cut printed which individual card. However, if a defect is visible on one card and it shows up progressively worse on another card, it is not unreasonable to conclude both were printed from the same cut. With these cards, the degree of visible wear is not a sign of a reprint. Rather, wear is only indicative of where in the life of the die cut a card was printed. Again, each die cut for an individual player started out virtually identical because they were made from the same halftone print or die cast (mold).

This analysis may go against the grain of many, but one cannot expect a single printing plate was used to produce the 30,000,000 cards needed each month? The cards are not of a high quality of printing and not dissimilar to the printing techniques of a newspaper. The die cuts were locked together to create a printing plate, with individual cuts replaced as they wore.

Other types of printing defects can include “white spots” and streaks caused by a fleck of paper from the paperstock (or some other foreign material) temporarily lodging on the die cut. The spot would remain until it was dislodged by incoming paperstock, the plate, or more often by a printer whose functions included routinely wiping the plates to remove such “spots.” Cards with such “spots” can vary vastly, with spots appearing anyplace. If the stray material had lodged on a focal point of a picture, it would appear more predominate. Spots can often be exaggerated when printed from a degenerated die cut as the image being transferred may already lack the “fresh” appearance and may transfer more ink than a newly molded one.

Condition:

a. Bond Bread package insert cards were individually handled – in the factory putting them into the packages, transporting them and shelving the loaves of bread in the store. The customer took a loaf from a shelf, moved it to the cash register along with other purchases, and it was probably bagged or boxed, then transported home. There were no card sleeves around when the package was opened. Rather a card taken out of the package, and probably passed around for all to see. If you were lucky enough to have an empty cigar box or some similar container, you might have keep your cards inside. Of course, these along with other things were handed to your friends and family to see. Unless you had access to someone who could use more than one loaf at a time, each single card was a specialty by itself and properly shared with all. If there was no interest in it, it was thrown away. I know of no Homogenized Bond Bread package insert card that is pristine. Rather they are used cards, mostly not in a high grade, but of high scarcity because of what most people do with old or worn out things.

b. Contrarily, the same cards from the “Sport Star Subjects” set are found in higher grades. They came packaged, and the container could be used to “protect the cards from the normal wear and tear that Bond Bread package inserts suffered. Most cards with white-backs and rounded corners attributed as “Bond Bread” cards in a grade of “Ex” or better apparently come from the “Sport Star Subjects” set, not Bond Bread packages.

c. Bond Bread is not fancy bread and contains little fat or other ingredients that would stain a card (such as a glaze, chocolate or grease might do).


2. 1947 Team Photo Packs [continued] :

Some of the boxers and some of the action shots of baseball players in the Bond Bread package insert set and other sets were discussed elsewhere in October 2014 in net54baseball.com's thread, “1947 Bond Bread Exhibits, started by member Is7plus. There member Exhibitman posted the following 8x10 inch glossy photo of the Marcel Cerdan picture of the type appearing in the Bond Bread package insert set and on other cards.



Exhibitman noted that he had “a couple dozen boxers . . . with the same font and sharing the images with some sets.” Cerdan's picture had written on it in ink, “DECEASED.” Cerdan was killed in an airplane crash on October 28, 1949 on his way to visit his friend, French singer Édith Piaf, before entering training camp for his rematch with Jake LaMotta for the middleweight championship.

Exhibitman also posted in that thread what he described as “Bob Feller from a multisport picture pack [printed, around 7 x 9]” followed by a picture of Feller which is a more complete version of the cropped Bond Bread Feller picture. Below in this appendix will be more details about such printed pictures, which are often mistakenly called “Bond Bread Premiums (6½x9 inches)” and sometimes sized at 6½x8½ inches.

Anyone who can post a scan of either the Photo Pack that contained 8x10 inch boxing cards or the multisport picture pack of the 6½-7 x 8½-9 inch printed sheets, please do so. It would help us all.

Regarding the other Bond Bread Set (the Special Jackie Robinson giveaway issue), below are scans of another ACME original photo used in that set.






3. A Numbered Card

About three weeks ago, I found on the internet the card shown in the scans below. Its offering merely provided a picture of the front of the card with the description: “1947 Homogenized Bond Bread Bobby Bobbie Doerr Card.” As you can see, the card is printed with the number “SH145” in the lower right front corner. It has the complete picture of Bobby Doerr that was cropped in the Bond Bread set. When it arrived, it measured 3x5 inches. Does anyone have any similarly numbered cards of any player or sport? Perhaps a list of cards in the set? Could you post scans or identify any other cards? Thanks, Mike







Watch for the next posting of this article.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

Last edited by abctoo; 06-07-2020 at 04:56 AM.
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  #247  
Old 06-07-2020, 10:30 AM
griffon512 griffon512 is offline
James
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Maybe I missed it in the novella, but it is unclear to me how you are distinguishing "Sport Star Subjects" from "Bond Bread." Please explain it clearly so a layman could make the distinction if analyzing the two different sets, or maybe someone else can if there is validity to it. If there is not a clear distinction in appearance than the presumption you are making below is just based on how packaging differences are likely to impact the condition of the cards, rather than other objective data.

"Most cards with white-backs and rounded corners attributed as 'Bond Bread' cards in a grade of 'Ex' or better apparently come from the 'Sport Star Subjects' set, not Bond Bread packages."
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  #248  
Old 06-07-2020, 11:58 AM
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Randy Trierweiler
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The SH45 card of Bobby Doerr is a 1975 Sport Hobbyist collectors issue. They have been cataloged in the SCD catalog.
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  #249  
Old 06-07-2020, 03:34 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
Michael Fried
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post
Maybe I missed it in the novella, but it is unclear to me how you are distinguishing "Sport Star Subjects" from "Bond Bread." Please explain it clearly so a layman could make the distinction if analyzing the two different sets, or maybe someone else can if there is validity to it. If there is not a clear distinction in appearance than the presumption you are making below is just based on how packaging differences are likely to impact the condition of the cards, rather than other objective data.

"Most cards with white-backs and rounded corners attributed as 'Bond Bread' cards in a grade of 'Ex' or better apparently come from the 'Sport Star Subjects' set, not Bond Bread packages."
The Bond Bread package insert cards and the Sport Star Subjects set were not issued on the same date. Right now, the market place and particularly those hyping their cards for sale and card grading services do not distinguish between them. That has caused the all of these cards to be attributed to Bond Bread. Without a distinction between the two issues, the current market price for these cards is inaccurately derived from what people think Bond Bread insert cards are worth even though they may be unwittingly buying cards from the Sport Star Subjects set. Higher or lower, each set has to find its own value in an honest marketplace based on what it is and not rumor, misdescription or the hyperbole of sellers and grading card services.

As stated in Appendix A - Part One (Working) above: "The purpose of this Appendix is not to put names on these sets. That will be done in the body of this article as its parts are posted. Rather, this Appendix is an attempt to identify all of the issues that have been attributed in someway or another as a “1947 Bond Bread “ card or set."

Appendix A - Part Three (Working), to which you responded, provided a brief description of the repeated use of initially identical molded lead die cuts derived from the same master halftone print to produce the large quantities of an individual player's cards over time and how such cuts became flawed, wore down during the printing process and were replaced. That process will be fully explained in the main text.

Part Three of this Appendix, also briefly identified the problems with attributing the voluminous quantities printed of a player's card to an individual die-cut. Details about the printing were left to the main text. The Sport Star Subject cards were printed in much smaller quantities than the Bond Bread cards. By best estimate those printings were in quantities equivalent to about one or two days supply of cards that would be needed for cards to be inserted in Bond Bread packages. [Added note: The equivalent of about 20,000 sets makes up one day's supply of bread package inserts or only about 4-5 die cuts per player per day.]

The specific wear and other flaws on the small quantity of die cuts used in the printing of the Sport Star Subjects sets can be identified so that some distinction can be made between the two sets. Otherwise, all of the cards look the same. You and anyone else can help by posting scans of cards that came from Sport Star Subjects boxes. Such detail cannot be a one person project, but must be a collaborative effort. Together, we can get to an end of this.

Griffon512, Thanks for your post,

Mike

Last edited by abctoo; 06-07-2020 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 06-07-2020, 11:44 PM
abctoo abctoo is offline
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The 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread inserts and Cards and Photos from the era with like and similar pictures.

APPENDIX A – Part Four (Working)

4. “Sport Star Subjects” 48 card set, issued in a series of 4 boxes of 12 different cards each.

Characteristics:

1. printed on one side

2. White Paper Stock, of the same low quality as the Bond Bread cards

3. Corners

a. Square, or
b. Rounded, with the same distinctive die-cut of most of the Bond Bread insert cards.

4. Size

a. The rounded cornered cards are the same size as the Bond Bread insert cards with the same distinctive die-cutting.

5. Printing

a. As with the Bond Bread insert cards, a player's picture was printed on white paperstock from molded lead die-cuts engraved from the same half-tone picture. The sharpness of the original picture molded in each lead die-cut degraded a little bit each time its raised parts transferred ink to the paper. When sufficiently deteriorated, a die-cut was replaced with another one, virtually identical to the one being replaced, except with its image not yet worn down. With hundreds of die-cuts used to print the tremendous quantity of Bond Bread cards, the insufficient supply of such cards now makes it virtually impossible to identify any particular Bond Bread insert card to a particular die-cut.

However, with only a limited number of die-cuts used to print the Sport Star Subjects set, its die-cuts can be identified from the individual wear and other printing defects shown that occurred during its printing process. High resolution scans of cards that can be assured to have come from Sport Star Subject set boxes could be compared to unidentified cards to see if the Sport Star Subjects defects are present. If yes, then the card comes from a Sport Star Subject set. Of course, such method would not be 100% accurate because the first cards printed from a new die-cut would not have the pronounced progressive printing defects of those printed later from the same die-cut.

Anyone who can provide high resolutions scans of the fronts of any Sport Star Subjects card (not Bond Bread card) are welcomed to post them here so the comparison can begin. Perhaps, a master list of Sport Star Subjects cards will evolve that will eliminate the confusion between the two sets.

6. Packages (Boxes?)

a. Four Packages of 12 cards each, the entire set issued in separate series

i. Series 1 – Green
ii. Series 2 – Red
iii. Series 3 – Brown
iv. Series 4 – Blue

b. The boxes and the cards were die-cut by the same company that die-cut the Bond Bread package insert cards.

c. The back of the package

i. Top right back of each package is printed with “No. 600” regardless of series.



ii. Initially, all of the backs of boxes I had seen were of the variety shown above. At first glance, it appeared to be a printing error as what was printed near the top left was not clearly readable. Many of us attempted to “translate” the unintelligible text. All of the boxes of the Screen Star Subjects set I had seen at that time also had the same imprinting – some gibberish with “No. 600,” the same number as the Sport Star Subjects set. Subsequently, I located a Screen Star Subjects set which made clear what the gibberish was.



It was an intentional obscuring of the text “W.S. / N.Y.” shown in the scan above. The question now becomes whether the Sport Star Subjects set was likewise initially printed with the “W.S. / N.Y.” imprint or whether it started out in a package already containing the obliterated text. Anyone who can produce a scan of the front and back of a Sports Star Subjects package with the “W.S. / N.Y.” imprint is requested to do so. Right now, we can only assume the Sports Star Subjects set package was printed from artwork with the readable indicia shown on some of Screen Star Subjects packages already obliterated.

The back of the Series 2 package of the W673 Navy Ships / Airplanes set of 36 cards shown in Posts #123 and #126 above is inscribed, “A.J. WIlDMAN & SON. NEW YORK 11. N.Y.. NADE IN U.S.A., No. 1841”.

Caution: Do not attempt to draw premature conclusions from what you know about the date of issue of the Navy Ships / Airplanes set to establish a date for either the Sport Star Subjects or the Screen Star Subjects sets. It's a bit more complicated than that and will be explained in the main text.

d. Which sports cards were in which Box?

i. Few boxes have survived intact. Most of those were opened one, two or more at the time. The same cards were not necessarily returned to the box from which they came. Many collectors sorted them by team or in alphabetical order. Sheet reconstruction may help resolve the issue.


More to come.

Copyright 2020, by Michael Fried, P.O. Box 27521, Oakland, California 94602-0521

Last edited by abctoo; 06-07-2020 at 11:45 PM.
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