T213's rarity compared to T206

[asphaltman]

I know these aren't t206's. But in my mind they are a close cousin. Where do the T213 type 1's, type 2's, and type 3's fall in comparison to the T206's as far as populations? Obviously these weren't as widely distributed. And we know T213-1 is the hardest to find, type 3 next, and type 2 the easiest...

So is a type 1 on the level of say a T206 Carolina Brights or a Uzit as far as difficulty? Is a type 3 on par with a Cycle 460, AB 460?

I'm also amazed at what seems like the type 2's have really jumped in price the last few years when they seem to be readily available unless you're looking for a certain card.

Mine just for the fun of scans....

[jggames]

Personally I like having the Type-1s in my T206 set. I was going after them pretty hard the last couple years and I think they’re closer to BroadLeafs and CBs not UZITs…the T215s however are closer to UZITs (in my opinion). Here’s one of my pages with both.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by jggames

Personally I like having the Type-1s in my T206 set. I was going after them pretty hard the last couple years and I think they’re closer to BroadLeafs and CBs not UZITs…the T215s however are closer to UZITs (in my opinion). Here’s one of my pages with both.

Nice Coupon and Red Cross!

[MVSNYC]

There's way more knowledgable collectors here then me, as it relates to Coupon & Red Cross (I've owned 2-3 Coupons, but they never did much for me, compared to the T206 backs), but it is my impression, and according to T206 Resource, Coupon Type 1's are close to CB's and Blank Backs as far as rarity goes, and Red Cross is close to BL 350 and Black Lenox. Neither near the rarity of Red Hindu or Uzit.

The Red Cross in particular, though, is a great looking back.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

I know these aren't t206's. But in my mind they are a close cousin. Where do the T213 type 1's, type 2's, and type 3's fall in comparison to the T206's as far as populations? Obviously these weren't as widely distributed. And we know T213-1 is the hardest to find, type 3 next, and type 2 the easiest...

So is a type 1 on the level of say a T206 Carolina Brights or a Uzit as far as difficulty? Is a type 3 on par with a Cycle 460, AB 460?

I'm also amazed at what seems like the type 2's have really jumped in price the last few years when they seem to be readily available unless you're looking for a certain card.

Mine just for the fun of scans....

Dave, I don't know if there is any good way to truly compare any of the T213's scarcity to any of the T206 subsets but since you mention population in my opinion you need to compare the number of confirmed subjects in the subset to the total population. Here' what I come up with when you do that.

T213-1 Total combined SGC and PSA pop is 344 /68 = 5.05

T213-2 5247/188? = 27.9

T213-3 603/70 = 8.61

Carolina Brights 980/128 = 7.65
Broad Leaf 350 651/177 = 3.67
Uzit 305/60 = 5.08
Cycle 460 821/109 = 7.53
AB460 733/74 = 9.90

[hcv123]

From a supply standpoint, the Coupons are ridiculously difficult - even the type 2's. A quick scan of the PSA and SGC pop reports:

Christy Mathewson is the highest pop card in the SGC pop report at 53 graded examples, 23 of those graded under 2. There are many with single digit and very low double digit pop's

On the PSA side Cobb is the most graded with 45 examples 25 of them graded under 2

The Type 1 and 3's are almost all single digit populations.

I'm not suggesting these are all there are as I am sure there are a bunch of raw ones out there, but use the data as a point of comparison to population relative to T206.

Where the T213's have historically suffered is on the demand side. Without getting back into the "are they T206's" debate, I am perplexed whether they are or are not, that they do not get more price respect in the market place - some of these cards are INCREDIBLY hard to find - forget about completing a set!

I personally find the glossy sheen that makes the colors pop on the Type 2's to make them considerably more visually attractive than T206's.

[jggames]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Coupon Type 1's are close to CB's and Blank Backs as far as rarity goes, and Red Cross is close to BL 350 and Black Lenox. Neither near the rarity of Red Hindu or Uzit.

The Red Cross in particular, though, is a great looking back.

Apologies for taking a tangent into a Red Cross discussion, but purely for anecdotal evidence…in the last 4 years or so, I was able to add Lenox, BLs, RHs and UZITs long before having the opportunity to get a Red Cross back. Could just be a timing issue, but it was the one back that was truly hard to find relative to the others mentioned.

[puckpaul]

They are cool cards, but sometimes scarcity works against you as they dont trade and are hard to collect. Seems to be the case for these somewhat. If you feel that makes them undervalued, buy the ones you find!

[DeanH3]

Coupons are extremely tough. I do think they are under-valued compared to T206's. Obviously due to demand, which we know is key.

PSA Pop for these three. Couldn't access SGC pop at the moment so I'll check later.

Type 1 - 1
Type 2 - 30
Type 3 - 12

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Coupons are extremely tough. I do think they are under-valued compared to T206's. Obviously due to demand, which we know is key.

PSA Pop for these three. Couldn't access SGC pop at the moment so I'll check later.

Type 1 - 1
Type 2 - 30
Type 3 - 12

Type 1 - 5
Type 2 - 53
Type 3 factory 3 - 4
Type 3 Factory 8 - 1

[atx840]

Nice binder page Jason! Have any other Coupons?

[Rhotchkiss]

As many on here know, there are several non-T206s that have same the pictures as contained in the T206 set. They are: T213, T214, and T215.

There are 3+ types of T213's: Types 1, 2, 3 and Type 3 factory 8 overprint.
There is only one type of T214
There are 3 types of T215: Pirate, and Types 1 and 2.
Pictures of all of these Back-Types and variations (other than T215-2, which is same as -1), are below.

It is widely regarded that none of these are T206s, however, arguments can made made that T213-1 and T215-1 can be considered T206 because they were distributed in 1910. There is zero chance any of the other variations/types can be considered T206 because none of them were distributed between 1909-11, which is when T206s were distributed.

Many people who do back runs try to get all of the non-T206 variations and consider them necessary to a complete back run (see Jamie's Red Cobb run).

As far as rarity, in my experience, T213-1 is on par with Carolina Brights, while T215-1 is more rare and on par with, or even rarer, than Drum (Brown Lenox and Brown Old Mill being by FAR the rarest of all backs). T213-2 are fairly common. T213-3 are rare, but can be found, however, the Fact 8 Overprints are super tough and many are 1 of 1's

Meanwhile, T215 Pirate is wicked tough. These are almost never seen and tougher than T206 Brown Mill, which is the rarest of all T206 backs; I have only seen 4 that were not part of the singular, almost-complete set out there. T214 is crazy rare, and likely on par with a T206 Brown Lenox.

[Exhibitman]

Scarce and really nice looking too. What's not to love?

[NiceDocter]

All are Type 2s..... got the Griffith at auction about 4 years ago, the others bought from a great Net54er a few years before that.

[GasHouseGang]

The colors in those cards really pop. Beautiful.

[RCMcKenzie]

The easiest T213-2 cards, the ones that have the highest populations, are the cards, like Cobb red and Mathewson, that were released in 1914, 1915, and 1916.

The cards with smaller pops are the ones that were only released in one year, or part of one year. Here's a 1916 Frank Chance. I think this is a player, manager, and owner card.

[brianp-beme]

T213-2 cards can be nice even when in low condition (but still retaining the gloss).

Brian

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Type 1 - 5
Type 2 - 53
Type 3 factory 3 - 4
Type 3 Factory 8 - 1

Thanks for the assist, Pat.

Even the Type 2 Matty is still under 100 graded.

[Stonepony]

My Type 2 Cobb314EB394-CA9C-4DA2-A2B0-EC61D59BBD22.jpg

[Pat R]

Much like the T206's there's a wide range when you start comparing single subjects. It would be easier to find a Bender with trees or a Dubuc T213-1 than it would be to find them with a Tolstoi back which is considered a mid-tier T206.

[kdixon]

I have the 4 Wheats .

[Yoda]

Do the pop reports break put Type 3 Factory 8 O/P's? I have a nice Eddie Collins PSA3 and have always wondered if it was a graded one of a kind.

[brass_rat]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Do the pop reports break put Type 3 Factory 8 O/P's? I have a nice Eddie Collins PSA3 and have always wondered if it was a graded one of a kind.

I know SGC has several labeled as such, but I'm not sure if all are.

Regarding the Collins overprint, I know of three examples in my note, and I'm not sure if yours is a fourth or one of the three.

Cheers,
Steve

[atx840]

@Steve, definitely a few variants on how they labeled them.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by brass_rat

I know SGC has several labeled as such, but I'm not sure if all are.

Regarding the Collins overprint, I know of three examples in my note, and I'm not sure if yours is a fourth or one of the three.

Cheers,
Steve

Tks Steve. Very useful. I got mine in a LOTG auction.

[investinrookies]

Just bought my first T213-2 and it’s a PSA 1 Cobb. Can’t wait to get it. The scarcity compared to T206s of the same cards and the colors/gloss make these special cards to own in my mind. What’s not to like, in ways a better/rare option ofT206s. As more collectors catch on to these they will gain even more in popularity and price.

Here’s the Cobb I recently bought. Special card for sure, I need more to go with it but the star players are now very hard to find.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

What’s not to like, in ways a better/rare option ofT206s.

Nice pick up! Congrats. That is almost exactly what my dad said at a local show 45 years ago when he was paying.

Here's one that is interesting. Usually a miscut can tell you when a card was released. In this case, Bill Sweeney Chicago is on top.

Bill Sweeney
1913 Boston
1914 Chicago

Heinie Wagner
1913 Boston
1914 no stats? injured?
1915 Boston 84 games
1916 Boston 6 games

Wagner only comes with a Boston caption and Bill Sweeney with Boston and Chicago.

I used to think that the Boston Sweeney was released early in 1914 and his Chicago card in a later 1914 printing.


This Wagner makes it seem that this card is an early 1915 printing. I dunno

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by investinrookies

Just bought my first T213-2 and it’s a PSA 1 Cobb. Can’t wait to get it. The scarcity compared to T206s of the same cards and the colors/gloss make these special cards to own in my mind. What’s not to like, in ways a better/rare option ofT206s. As more collectors catch on to these they will gain even more in popularity and price.

Here’s the Cobb I recently bought. Special card for sure, I need more to go with it but the star players are now very hard to find.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sweet card. Waiting for a gem like that to arrive definitely gets the juices flowing. Congrats!

[Pat R]

T213/T82 newspaper clip
Coupon Cigarettes Daily_News_Sun__Oct_8__1961_.jpg

[Kevin]

What ever happened to Mr Broussard’s collection??

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

The easiest T213-2 cards, the ones that have the highest populations, are the cards, like Cobb red and Mathewson, that were released in 1914, 1915, and 1916.

The cards with smaller pops are the ones that were only released in one year, or part of one year. Here's a 1916 Frank Chance. I think this is a player, manager, and owner card.

Chance with Los Angeles in the PCL? Great. Now I have another card to chase...

[fkm_bky]

I wasn't planning on adding these to my T206 Herzog back run, but when it got down to it, the same image and thrill of the chase won out

Bill