Let's play a game of guess the grades!

[hcv123]

For purposes of this one, let's presume the backs are exactly equivalent and will not lessen the grade as would be determined by the front.

I guess we can call them PSA Matty and SGC Matty. Let the guessing begin.

[swarmee]

Sgc - 3
psa - 2.5

[BobbyStrawberry]

Sgc 3
psa 4

[puckpaul]

Sgc 3
Psa 4 (maybe 4.5)

[Scocs]

The PSA has much nicer corners and gold edges, but it is also slightly out of focus. Not sure a) if that has any effect on the grading and b) if so, what the effect is on the grade….

[cgjackson222]

SGC 3

PSA 3 (but deserves higher. PSA grades too harshly lately)

[3-2-count]

Sgc 3
Psa 2

[Leon]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Sgc - 3
psa - 2.5

+1

[perezfan]

Sgc 2.5
psa 4

[mrreality68]

Psa 3
sgc 2.5

[jh691626]

Sgc 2.5. Psa 3

[raulus]

I was thinking it, but lacked the chutzpah to actually say it. PSA 4 it is, in spite of all the naysayers.

I’ll guess SGC 3 on the other side.

Tip for those who don’t know, you can use the PSA cert app to scan a barcode, even a barcode that’s on a screen.

[ejharrington]

Sgc -2 psa - 3

[butchie_t]

SGC - Authentic
PSA - 2

[hcv123]

As Nicolo through his technical prowess already revealed the PSA grade, here are the cards with the grades intact.

This was a VERY interesting exercise to me. Particularly that there was actually a difference of opinion about which card deserves the higher grade!

To me as to most of the responders visually the PSA card appears about a grade better than the SGC card. I own the PSA card.

Would love to continue the discussion as to what factors led to your responses. What I see - PSA has stronger centering, PSA has stronger color, PSA has stronger edges (almost no chipping), PSA has slightly better corners. There was a comment about focus - I don't see a difference - others? The only thing I see that the SGC wins - it doesn't have the tiny print dot on Matty's nose that the PSA one has.

It came up as I was asked to trade The PSA for the SGC + cash. It was 8.5% in cash of what I was asking on the Matty. I refused the offer as to me whatever the #, my PSA card just has eye appeal a full grade higher than the SGC. So for those of you who see the PSA as nicer than the SGC - what would you figure to be a fair % premium if you were trading down to the SGC? Feel free to use numbers if easier. They are both Sovereign backs.

[ullmandds]

2.5/3.5

[Fred]

SGC 2
PSA 3

I hope there aren't any huge surprises here.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by hcv123

As Nicolo through his technical prowess already revealed the PSA grade, here are the cards with the grades intact.

Sorry to spoil the fun. I briefly toyed with feigning ignorance, while simultaneously offering to brashly wager large sums on what I had already divined through my electronic legerdemain.

Just a guess here that most of us were expecting that these were recently graded, like in the last few weeks. I’m pretty sure that the PSA grade is a few years old. Not sure about the SGC, although it’s obviously a low number. Since I have absolutely zero familiarity with their numbering system, I’m not sure if this is indicative of when it was graded.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by raulus

Not sure about the SGC, although it’s obviously a low number. Since I have absolutely zero familiarity with their numbering system, I’m not sure if this is indicative of when it was graded.

SGC used to have consecutive numbering on the flips.
Now, they are totally random

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

SGC used to have consecutive numbering on the flips.
Now, they are totally random

Fun fun fun.

I thought I heard a rumor somewhere that their database will tell you the date it was graded though…

[Snowman]

I don't think anyone here believes the SGC *ought* to grade higher, I just think the opinions posted reflect the general, and well-deserved, lack of confidence the vintage community now has in PSA's ability to accurately grade vintage these days.

The SGC looks overgraded to me. I think that card should be a 2.5 or a 3. The PSA card being in a 4 holder is a bit surprising, but the cert beginning with 45xx means that it was graded right in the early stages of the pandemic, and likely by an experienced grader, before the avalanche came that overwhelmed PSA and before they hired all these noobie graders who haven't got a clue. If that cert began with 5xxx or 6xxx though, it would almost certainly be in a 2 or 3 holder. They're just all over the place these days.

If I were subbing today, I'd expect a 2.5 on the SGC card and a 3 on the PSA.

[RCMcKenzie]

They look about the same to me. I don't see one having a swap premium over the other. I'd give them both a 4 as well.

[NiceDocter]

Okay just my opinion on what I would do. Ignoring the slabs, the PSA card has better eye appeal to me with much less "white" on the borders and corners. I would think at least $100 maybe up to $200 difference. I would take the PSA card raw in straight trade for the slabbed SGC card as well.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

SGC used to have consecutive numbering on the flips.
Now, they are totally random

The way SGC used to do the numbering was by order. I think there was a 7 or 8 digit number followed by a -xxx. The -xxx represented a card in the main order number. For example, if the cert number was 1234567-132, then the card was the 132nd card graded from the 1234567 order (and there could have been more after 132). For PSA, I recall them being consecutive numbers. I think one submission I had was about 80-100 cards and the cert numbers were consecutive.

[jethrod3]

I was going to guess the same grades, but both 3.5's. I guess I don't feel too bad about that assessment!

[Snowman]

I don't understand the viewpoint that they ought to both be the same grade. If these two cards were submitted both raw, together, to the same company, there is zero chance of them coming back with the same grade. At any TPG.

[Pat R]

For those that were curious the SGC was graded in September 2018.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Sgc 3
psa 4

+1

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hcv123

It came up as I was asked to trade The PSA for the SGC + cash. It was 8.5% in cash of what I was asking on the Matty. I refused the offer as to me whatever the #, my PSA card just has eye appeal a full grade higher than the SGC. So for those of you who see the PSA as nicer than the SGC - what would you figure to be a fair % premium if you were trading down to the SGC? Feel free to use numbers if easier. They are both Sovereign backs.

When I was putting together my set, I figured a 20% discount for the same card in a SGC holder vs a PSA holder. For the condition difference, I think you are looking at 40-50% of your asking price in cash being added to the SGC to equal the value of the PSA.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by rats60

When I was putting together my set, I figured a 20% discount for the same card in a SGC holder vs a PSA holder. For the condition difference, I think you are looking at 40-50% of your asking price in cash being added to the SGC to equal the value of the PSA.

Thank you Floyd, for reading and responding to the question in my last post. As the offer I received was not even close, I didn't actually take the time to think about exactly what it would be, but my thinking is in the ballpark of alligned with yours (though I do think the gap is closing between PSA and SGC on prewar cards). For me it was more about the "obvious?" condition difference, "grade" notwithstanding.

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't understand the viewpoint that they ought to both be the same grade. If these two cards were submitted both raw, together, to the same company, there is zero chance of them coming back with the same grade. At any TPG.

Not only the same, but if you look back at the beginning of the thread, there are a couple who suggested the SGC grade higher than the PSA!? I am with you - I don't understand either (but have requested explanation) - Interesting and perplexing.

[Leon]

I don't care about the effing holders. I don't collect plastic. I would pay 25%-30% more for the PSA one because it's a lot nicer.

The reason some members picked weird numbers is because, since you are showing them, we thought something was really awry.
.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by hcv123

Thank you Floyd, for reading and responding to the question in my last post. As the offer I received was not even close, I didn't actually take the time to think about exactly what it would be, but my thinking is in the ballpark of alligned with yours (though I do think the gap is closing between PSA and SGC on prewar cards). For me it was more about the "obvious?" condition difference, "grade" notwithstanding.



Not only the same, but if you look back at the beginning of the thread, there are a couple who suggested the SGC grade higher than the PSA!? I am with you - I don't understand either (but have requested explanation) - Interesting and perplexing.

If SGC is closing the gap, then good for me. About 40% of my set is in SGC holders. I was getting them at a 20% discount, sometimes more. I found the PSA registry has some dealers and collectors not wanting SGC cards at all, creating a premium for PSA.

I think people thought your original point was that you just got this PSA card graded and weren't happy with the grade. People were just guessing that this was a harsh PSA grade and you were showing a worse condition card in a SGC holder. The PSA card is clearly in better condition.

When I sent t205s to PSA, I got a couple 3s that were nicer than your 4. Your card easily could have been graded 3. Grading is just that graders opinion on that day. I originally wanted my set in EX or better. I ended up with a few 4s because everytime I found an upgrade, it was in worse condition than the card I had, despite having a higher number on the flip.

[1880nonsports]

Guess I'm old school. No idea what/why they would think the way they do BUT
I/m with snownuts :-)

"If I were subbing today, I'd expect a 2.5 on the SGC card and a 3 on the PSA"

Actually that's what "I" think they should be graded regardless of TPA.....

[puckpaul]

The PSA one looks like a classic 4 old school, well centered, no creases!, wear to the corners but not much else. I would only call this a 3 on the new tougher scale. Regardless, it should attract buyers beyond a VG price.

[RCMcKenzie]

I agree that the PSA holder adds significant monetary value. As talked about above, the card in the PSA holder is slightly nicer, except for the dot on his nose, which evens them out to me.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I agree that the PSA holder adds significant monetary value. As talked about above, the card in the PSA holder is slightly nicer, except for the dot on his nose, which evens them out to me.

Now that i see it, the dot(s) are annoying a little, and side by side the PSA has less focus. Still, I prefer the overall PSA card.

[JollyElm]

God, now you have us all seeing dots! There are two more on Matty's neck (scan artifacts?) and also one on the SGC's forehead!

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

God, now you have us all seeing dots! There are two more on Matty's neck (scan artifacts?) and also one on the SGC's forehead!

Lol…What’s the rule on dots? Forehead is ok but nose is a half-grade?

[G1911]

I would give the SGC a 2.5 or 3, the PSA a 3.5 or 4.

However, I would rather have the SGC. Corners and some edge wear don’t mean as much to me as the actual picture. The registration is better on the lower grade card, and that’s where my eyes focus and the point of the card. I’d rather have the nicer image

[robw1959]

Sgc: 3
psa: 4

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by G1911

I would give the SGC a 2.5 or 3, the PSA a 3.5 or 4.

However, I would rather have the SGC. Corners and some edge wear don’t mean as much to me as the actual picture. The registration is better on the lower grade card, and that’s where my eyes focus and the point of the card. I’d rather have the nicer image

+1

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I don't understand the viewpoint that they ought to both be the same grade. If these two cards were submitted both raw, together, to the same company, there is zero chance of them coming back with the same grade. At any TPG.

As Leon mentioned a couple of posts later, in my case I picked the same grade because I suspected that something was awry or that there was a slight misgrading. Since we all know that misgrading happens, there is definitely a greater chance than zero that they could come back that way! Even if two cards are identical or the same card sent in separately at different times to each company.

[JustinD]

I can see the reasoning on the PSA grade, but have to say I personally feel the SGC is over graded by at least 1 full grade.

Many prefer a sliding scale for vintage grading. I would appreciate uniformity (granted this is a pipe dream as millions of cards have not followed this) between vintage, post war, modern, and ultra modern. What grade would you feel was deserved if a 2022 Mike Trout was in the same condition?

Before it’s brought up, I understand the normal effects of time, I just don’t mind a lower grade. What I don’t like is a million different standards.

[Bridwell]

The grading companies are pretty lenient on T205's, it seems to me. Graded T205's almost always have that edge chipping, which is very distracting to the eye. When I first saw the 2 cards, I thought they were 3.5 (SGC) and 4 (PSA). I can see why others were expecting 2.5 to 3, because of the edge chipping. No way a modern card in that condition would get a 4!