What's up with Mike Trout?

[clydepepper]

He's 1-for-18 this month with 13 strikeouts.

Earlier this season, he had an 0-for-26 skid over a 7-game span.



I do not recall him being so prone to slumps in the past.




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[mrreality68]

maybe he is intimidated by Ohtani's star power.

maybe he is mortal.

regardless he is having an abnormal Trout hear but he is still having a great year with 23 HR, 53runs and 48 rbi thru 1/2 a season. IF he stays health he could have over 40 HR and over 100 runs and 100 RBi.

I would love for some of my players to have that down year

[KMayUSA6060]

Why is he rotting away in Anaheim? That's the bigger question.

And no, I'm not saying he should go to a big market team like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees or Phillies. But he should at least be on a contender.

[clydepepper]

I finally ponied up for MLB channel so I could see him more often here in the east.

oh, well...a fool and his money...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Sell.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I finally ponied up for MLB channel so I could see him more often here in the east.

oh, well...a fool and his money...

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Why is he rotting away in Anaheim? That's the bigger question.

And no, I'm not saying he should go to a big market team like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees or Phillies. But he should at least be on a contender.

He has a full no trade clause so he and the team would have to want to trade him. And the Team says they have no interest in trading him
He is definitely must see (just hit a 3 run homer moments ago.

Shame they are not better but as of now they are 7 games behind the 3rd wild card spot

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060

Why is he rotting away in Anaheim? That's the bigger question.

And no, I'm not saying he should go to a big market team like the Dodgers, Mets, Yankees or Phillies. But he should at least be on a contender.

Because he chose to waste away in Anaheim.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Because he chose to waste away in Anaheim.

Sadly yes. Takes the money, takes the weather, and a lot less stress but limits the legend that he could be above what he is if he made it to the playoffs and did some heroics or won a championship or something

[clydepepper]

He's 3-for-4 tonight with a homer and a stolen base- which is one more than Miggie has.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Sadly yes. Takes the money, takes the weather, and a lot less stress but limits the legend that he could be above what he is if he made it to the playoffs and did some heroics or won a championship or something

Any team in baseball would have paid him record money. He's a generational player and at that point injuries weren't a major issue. Maybe it was a family decision with his wife, who knows, but it's tempting to say playing for a contender just wasn't a priority for him.

[1952boyntoncollector]

It not like his team isnt spending money trying to get other good players..

only need 2 good starting pitcjer if make it to the playoffs


1988 dodgers had hershisher and welch and tim belcher in their playoff run if my memory serves me right

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any team in baseball would have paid him record money. He's a generational player and at that point injuries weren't a major issue. Maybe it was a family decision with his wife, who knows, but it's tempting to say playing for a contender just wasn't a priority for him.

Family Matters:

Trout baby.jpg

[Jewish-collector]

What happens if his career tails off and does NOT become the great legendary HOF player that everyone thought ?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

What happens if his career tails off and does NOT become the great legendary HOF player that everyone thought ?

Most...or at least a majority, feel like he's already in.

After all, if what has come before - 10 years - was his peak - that's about two or three seasons longer than most players' peaks...IMO


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[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Most...or at least a majority, feel like he's already in.

After all, if what has come before - 10 years - was his peak - that's about two or three seasons longer than most players' peaks...IMO


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He is probably in I agree but he will never be a Great/Legendary HOFer if he does not get to the playoffs and does something there.

He is hidden in plain sight on a bad team and that will prevent him from becoming truly Legendary

[packs]

How could he ever not make the HOF? What would keep him out? There are only 2 players who won 3 or more MVPs who are not in the HOF and they are Bonds and A-rod.

I also think its interesting people are so wrapped up in who Trout plays for. Tony Gwynn DID play on 3 Padres playoff teams, 2 of which DID go to the World Series, but he played for mediocre or worse Padres teams for 17 other years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many World Series did Ted Williams make/win? 1/0. Is Ted Williams a legend?

[packs]

Griffey played 18 career play off games and is still one of the most recognizable players to multiple generations of fans.

Who cares if Trout plays for the Angels. I know you weren't watching Mariners west coast games in the 90s either. But you still loved Griffey.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Tyrus Raymond Cobb hit .262 in three losing Series, none in the last 19 years of his career.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

He is probably in I agree but he will never be a Great/Legendary HOFer if he does not get to the playoffs and does something there.

He is hidden in plain sight on a bad team and that will prevent him from becoming truly Legendary

Ernie Banks?


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[packs]

Miguel Cabrera has 500 home runs, 3,000 hits, won a triple crown and 4 batting titles. He played for a World Series championship team as a rookie and hit 167 in the series.

He is one of the greatest players ever to play the game anyway.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Ernie Banks?


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Ernie Banks is Great but to the masses is he considered(not just in his Home Team) on the same level of Mays, Aaron, Robinson, Ruth, Mantle, Cobb, Wagner, etc?

Sadly the greatness is often included with championships, with play off heroics because that is what the people see, hear , or read (depending on the era), social media etc that creates the buzz and enhances those heroics

[packs]

Total combined seasons in which Cobb and Wagner played in the postseason: 5 total seasons

Total combined seasons they did not appear in the postseason: 40 seasons

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by packs

Total combined seasons in which Cobb and Wagner played in the postseason: 5 total seasons

Total combined seasons they did not appear in the postseason: 40 seasons

Great point

but they are some of the Biggest and Earliest legends of the game and it was made in part from their personalities, the media and they even played each other in the World Series (and their is even a famous card with them shaking hands (1910 PC796 and 1909 W.W. SMITH POSTCARD)

[packs]

True but that meeting occurred in 1909. Cobb was 22 years old and it was the last time he ever appeared in a World Series. He played another 19 seasons for obscure Tiger and A's teams and is still one of the most recognizable names in the sport.

The point I'm trying to make is that greatness does not go overlooked and neither is Trout. If you follow baseball today, you know Trout is the king of the sport.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by packs

True but that meeting occurred in 1909. Cobb was 22 years old and it was the last time he ever appeared in a World Series. He played another 19 seasons for obscure Tiger and A's teams and is still one of the most recognizable names in the sport.

The point I'm trying to make is that greatness does not go overlooked and neither is Trout. If you follow baseball today, you know Trout is the king of the sport.

I agree he is the current “king” of the sport but I do not believe when his career ends he will be seen as one of the greatest and/or legends of all time. If it continues the way it is

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

True but that meeting occurred in 1909. Cobb was 22 years old and it was the last time he ever appeared in a World Series. He played another 19 seasons for obscure Tiger and A's teams and is still one of the most recognizable names in the sport.

The point I'm trying to make is that greatness does not go overlooked and neither is Trout. If you follow baseball today, you know Trout is the king of the sport.

yes, but still taking advantage of a playoff opportunity is still better than someone who never receives the opportunity...

some elite players have not been great in the playoffs which has hurt their reputation as well so with risk there is reward.......

In the playoffs you dont get to hit against number 4 and number 5 Starting pitchers, you also dont get to put up huge stats against the terrible teams...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

True but that meeting occurred in 1909. Cobb was 22 years old and it was the last time he ever appeared in a World Series. He played another 19 seasons for obscure Tiger and A's teams and is still one of the most recognizable names in the sport.

The point I'm trying to make is that greatness does not go overlooked and neither is Trout. If you follow baseball today, you know Trout is the king of the sport.

yes, but still taking advantage of a playoff opportunity is till better than someone who never receives the opportunity...

some elite players have not been great in the playoffs which has hurt their reputation as well so with risk there is reward.......


Jeter hit like .308 in the playoffs

[packs]

To that I would say this; take a look at the list of other 3 time MVP players:

Because they aren't going away:
Bonds
A-rod

The rest:
Albert Pujols
Mike Schmidt
Mickey Mantle
Yogi Berra
Roy Campanella
Stan Musial
Joe DiMaggio
Jimmie Foxx

and of course, Mike Trout. Pretty hefty list and if he wins a fourth MVP, which I really don't think is far from the realm of possibility, he is again in a class of his own.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

To that I would say this; take a look at the list of other 3 time MVP players:

Because they aren't going away:
Bonds
A-rod

The rest:
Albert Pujols
Mike Schmidt
Mickey Mantle
Yogi Berra
Roy Campanella
Stan Musial
Joe DiMaggio
Jimmie Foxx

and of course, Mike Trout. Pretty hefty list and if he wins a fourth MVP, which I really don't think is far from the realm of possibility, he is again in a class of his own.

Yes hes an ELITE Regular Season player at this point.....i dont doubt he would be great in playoffs as well but if he doest get the chance, you cant put him over others who proved to be great against far better playoff competition.

of course a terrible regular season player who was great int he playoffs wouldnt make that player better than trout....however there could be other 3x MVP or lesser that is considered better due to the entire body of work including playoffs.

[packs]

He plays against every AL team every season and against a number of NL teams through interleague play. He is playing every playoff team. It's not like the AL and NL are separate any longer.

There is a Brian Doyle for every Mariano Rivera in the postseason. It really isn't the maker or breaker it's made out to be.

To echo an earlier post; Ted Williams hit 200 over 7 career postseason games. Is there any argument over the player he was?

[nat]

Whatever happens with the post season (which 40% of teams now qualify for, let's not pretend it's all that special), Trout is already one of the greatest to have ever played.

Career slash lines, along with OPS+ (which is adjusted to account for the context in which the player played)

Trout: 303/416/584, and 176
DiMaggio: 325/398/579 and 155

Trout is a better hitter than Joe DiMaggio, and they both play centerfield. He's already accumulated more total value to his career than DiMaggio, despite playing in more than 300 fewer games. And he's still only 30.

He's currently 38th all-time in career WAR (tied with Jeff Bagwell). By the end of the year he should be roughly tied with Ken Griffey Jr. If he's healthy next year he'll finish the season up around Wade Boggs and Jimmie Foxx. The only question with Trout at this point is health. It's been iffy so far. If the injuries catch up to him, he's a better version of Griffey. If not, he's a top 10 player.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As Packs and I both have mentioned, Ted Williams is the complete answer to the wrong notion that playoff success is necessary to be an elite all time legend. Why is this even being debated? Can it enhance one's legend, sure. Necessary, absolutely not.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...Why is this even being debated?...

Because you could write, "water is wet" and there would be contrarian knuckleheads debating you.

Although not unique to Net54, there seems to be an uptick in the frequency of such behavior on this site lately. (I can hear a few keyboard warriors typing their responses to my post already)

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Because you could write, "water is wet" and there would be contrarian knuckleheads debating you.

Although not unique to Net54, there seems to be an uptick in the frequency of such behavior on this site lately. (I can hear a few keyboard warriors typing their responses to my post already)

Actually, I started this thread trying to make sense of the extended slump Trout was in...not his greatness, though I did comment on that later on.

There are several good-to-great hitters who are just starting to hit (Soto for example) or are still having down seasons and I believe at least some of that can be blamed on the lockout and abbreviated spring training. Plus the fact that teams had 15 and 16 man pitching staffs to start the season...good grief!


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[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Because you could write, "water is wet" and there would be contrarian knuckleheads debating you.

Although not unique to Net54, there seems to be an uptick in the frequency of such behavior on this site lately. (I can hear a few keyboard warriors typing their responses to my post already)

I put a 2 inch cube of water in my bourbon last night. It disappeared along with the bourbon. Does this prove unequivocally that water is wet? I think not.

Your favorite keyboard warrior

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I put a 2 inch cube of water in my bourbon last night. It disappeared along with the bourbon. Does this prove unequivocally that water is wet? I think not.

Your favorite keyboard warrior

Frank - the attached reminds me of you:

116484924_3862829680400176_1227758726167921261_n.jpg

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As Packs and I both have mentioned, Ted Williams is the complete answer to the wrong notion that playoff success is necessary to be an elite all time legend. Why is this even being debated? Can it enhance one's legend, sure. Necessary, absolutely not.

+1 agree and he served and lost prime time of career.

[clydepepper]

answering my own original question:

He has back issues, has missed the last four games and, thusly, will not participate in the All-Star game.


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[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

answering my own original question:

He has back issues, has missed the last four games and, thusly, will not participate in the All-Star game.


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Trout, evidently, read this post...and finally got one Friday.


The answer was actually posted on the Trout/Miggy thread here.

He saw the thread and was shamed into stealing a base. No wonder he has a back ache.

[deucetwins]

Frank, is a 2 inch cube of water really water? Or is it ice? Asking for a friend.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by deucetwins

Frank, is a 2 inch cube of water really water? Or is it ice? Asking for a friend.

Don't get me started or I'll tell you why a giraffe cannot breathe.

[mrreality68]

Trout is having another strong year but he is hurt again since before all star game and missing time.
I would love to see him on action a full year with no injuries he would be even more amazing.
Hopefully these injuries do not keep going and slow him down later in his career especially with that long contract

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As Packs and I both have mentioned, Ted Williams is the complete answer to the wrong notion that playoff success is necessary to be an elite all time legend. Why is this even being debated? Can it enhance one's legend, sure. Necessary, absolutely not.

well people who point to Derek Jeter being better than Arod would disagree... that not me but just saying,

i have defended Clayton Kershaw for years for his postseason..so i am not a hater of lack of playoff success players compared to their regular season and/or lack of championships...

but i do agree a 'lesser' regular season player perhaps just a bit lesser, who has a much greater playoff success would be 'better' in my book as you cant say winning and doing well in the postseason doesnt matter like spring training,..its a second season.....especially now with so many playoff teams versus the amount of playoff teams in years past...

[packs]

You're getting into the subjective which is good for discussions. In a subjective world, I would say Derek Jeter was the better player between him and A-Rod. I say that because if I were going to have to choose one player for my team, I would choose Jeter over A-Rod every time.

That's not because Jeter had better stats. It's because I'd rather have him on my team knowing he has attributes you won't necessarily get with A-Rod.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

You're getting into the subjective which is good for discussions. In a subjective world, I would say Derek Jeter was the better player between him and A-Rod. I say that because if I were going to have to choose one player for my team, I would choose Jeter over A-Rod every time.

That's not because Jeter had better stats. It's because I'd rather have him on my team knowing he has attributes you won't necessarily get with A-Rod.

many of jeter's attributes are from his POST season play.....if Jeter played ZERO post season games..you would easily pick Arod even if Arod has zero post season games as well...

thus will be the argument against Trout .versus some other lesser stat player but great in postseason.. its always a subjective world until we play real games on paper..

[mrreality68]

For me the argument against Trout is his durability more than playoff issue.

He is a great player but to me availability is the greatest ability.

4 out of the last 6 years ( the shortened year he played 53) he had played less then 114 games and is high is 140 during that time.

Prior to 2016 he was it Great and Durable.

And now with this back issue that can effect the rest of his career and needs to be watched and managed we all fear how it might impact his high standards of greatness moving forward

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

For me the argument against Trout is his durability more than playoff issue.

He is a great player but to me availability is the greatest ability.

4 out of the last 6 years ( the shortened year he played 53) he had played less then 114 games and is high is 140 during that time.

Prior to 2016 he was it Great and Durable.

And now with this back issue that can effect the rest of his career and needs to be watched and managed we all fear how it might impact his high standards of greatness moving forward

as many people say 'Availability' is one of the best abilities..



also if you are a super player an elite player..today with THREE wild card teams for your team to not make the playoffs versus players before 1969 who had very limited postseasons i believe you should punish more elite players with lack of playoff success as there are so many more opportunites to make the playoffs

The fact a poster shows he thinks jeter is better than Arod and would rather have jeter on their team shows that winning playoff games matter.......

are you a better player if everyone wants you on your team to win games given a choice, or are you better if your stats are better?