THE Hall of Fame this year and next:

[Shoelessseb]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Never understood the pass Ortiz gets. I guess being lovable forgives a lot of sins.

Exactly. As a Yankees fan it’s pissing me off

[Pat R]

So based on the HOF standards any player on the 2017/18 Astros roster
shouldn't be eligible for the HOF correct?

[packs]

No one has silenced Curt Schilling. He is free to say and do whatever he wants. There is a difference between facing the consequences for what you say and being able to say what you want. Whether you think those consequences should carry over to something like HOF voting is up for debate. But I don't think it can be argued that Schilling can't say and do what he pleases.

[byrone]

I haven't followed Curt Schilling's post-career issues

What specifically is it that would change a voter's mind from "Yes he's a HOF'er" to "No"?

Without venturing too far into political talk.

Although if it's for things he said or wrote, is the First Amendment considered 'political'?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by byrone

I haven't followed Curt Schilling's post-career issues

What specifically is it that would change a voter's mind from "Yes he's a HOF'er" to "No"?

Without venturing too far into political talk.

Although if it's for things he said or wrote, is the First Amendment considered 'political'?

There have been quite a few things he has said or posted that have not been well received. I think the one that started to really impact his vote total was a few years ago when he either posted or retweeted something about lynching reporters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-much-awesome/

As others have said, he is free to say or post what he wants, but there can always be consequences to doing that. The first amendment allows him to say what he wants, but it doesn't force reporters to vote for him for the Hall of Fame if they don't want to.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by jayshum

there have been quite a few things he has said or posted that have not been well received. I think the one that started to really impact his vote total was a few years ago when he either posted or retweeted something about lynching reporters.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-much-awesome/

as others have said, he is free to say or post what he wants, but there can always be consequences to doing that. The first amendment allows him to say what he wants, but it doesn't force reporters to vote for him for the hall of fame if they don't want to.

+1.000

[Chuck9788]

Curt Schilling belongs in the Hall of Fame. It's terrible that politics and the "cancel culture" has penetrated into the halls of Cooperstown.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For sure, but I think at least in theory there is room for an argument that a guy who clearly had a HOF career pre stuff is deserving.

So if Pete Rose didn't bet on games until he passed Ty Cobb, is he deserving?

Personally, I don't buy that argument. But I also can't exclude anyone from the HOF who is on the ballot. That's telling me that MLB and the HOF both believe that they are eligible. As opposed to Pete or Shoeless Joe, who are not on the eligible list. If MLB or the HOF don't want them in the HOF, then suspend them from baseball and take them off the ballot. Stand up and make a decision MLB and HOF. It's the same no-show of leadership that Selig practiced his entire tenure as Commish.

[Ricky]

MLB and the HOF aren’t keeping Schilling out. Writers aren’t voting for him. Which is their right. Nobody has “cancelled” Schilling. He very possibly will get in through one of theVeterans Committees.

And no, doesn’t matter when Rose bet on baseball. Stupid on his part.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

So if Pete Rose didn't bet on games until he passed Ty Cobb, is he deserving?

Personally, I don't buy that argument. But I also can't exclude anyone from the HOF who is on the ballot. That's telling me that MLB and the HOF both believe that they are eligible. As opposed to Pete or Shoeless Joe, who are not on the eligible list. If MLB or the HOF don't want them in the HOF, then suspend them from baseball and take them off the ballot. Stand up and make a decision MLB and HOF. It's the same no-show of leadership that Selig practiced his entire tenure as Commish.

Joe Jackson was on the ballot originally and got 2 votes. The writers can exclude anyone they want for any reason.

[earlywynnfan]

Is it possible that over 25% of writers actually think he wasn't HOF material? It's not like he was Greg Maddux. I don't think the Hall is watered down in any way if he isn't in there.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Ricky

MLB and the HOF aren’t keeping Schilling out. Writers aren’t voting for him. Which is their right. Nobody has “cancelled” Schilling. He very possibly will get in through one of theVeterans Committees.

And no, doesn’t matter when Rose bet on baseball. Stupid on his part.

Writers are part of the media, and yes it is the media that is canceling and censoring voices that don't match their agenda. Any way you slice it, Schilling is a borderline candidate that could go either way. His clashes with the media were probably just enough to tip the scales against him.

I personally don't care whether he gets in, but do wish it was based solely on his performance as a player.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Writers are part of the media, and yes it is the media that is canceling and censoring voices that don't match their agenda. Any way you slice it, Schilling is a borderline candidate that could go either way. His clashes with the media were probably just enough to tip the scales against him.

I personally don't care whether he gets in, but do wish it was based solely on his performance as a player.

How do you know they are cancelling him? Did I miss some sort of press conference??

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, the only system that is bad is the Veterans Commitees. The BBWAA has done a pretty good job in electing worthy players. It is the Veterans Committees with players voting that has elected guys like Harold Baines, Bud Selig, Rube Marquard, Tommy McCarthy, Rick Ferrell, George Kelly, etc. Why would they want to give them more voting power?

Thanks for reminding me...as I said, it was late and I'm old...should be so near a keyboard that late.

It has to do with exactly who is on the veterans committee...Frankie Frisch got a lot of his teammates in (Haines, Lindstrom...to name a few that did not belong)- I don't like Tony Larussa being on it either.

.

.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Writers are part of the media, and yes it is the media that is canceling and censoring voices that don't match their agenda. Any way you slice it, Schilling is a borderline candidate that could go either way. His clashes with the media were probably just enough to tip the scales against him.

I personally don't care whether he gets in, but do wish it was based solely on his performance as a player.

How are they cancelling him? He got 70+% of the vote from them. He just didn’t get 75%.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Ricky

How are they cancelling him? He got 70+% of the vote from them. He just didn’t get 75%.

There are many examples, and I don't want to cite them all because this is not a place for politics. To pick just one, I suppose it's worth noting that ESPN fired him for voicing opinions that do not align with their woke agenda. But certainly don't want to debate it here.... feel free to PM me if you want.

As I said previously, Schilling is borderline either way, and his preclusion from the HOF won't cause me one minute of lost sleep. I respect all opinions as well as the fact that this forum is reserved for baseball and not politics.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Writers are part of the media, and yes it is the media that is canceling and censoring voices that don't match their agenda. Any way you slice it, Schilling is a borderline candidate that could go either way. His clashes with the media were probably just enough to tip the scales against him.

I personally don't care whether he gets in, but do wish it was based solely on his performance as a player.

We have become a society where many/most people are constantly asking for tolerance and inclusion yet they fail to practice what they preach.
I, too, don't really care whether Schilling gets in or not. He's definitely not a slam dunk. However, excluding him because of what he has said, although over the top at times, is wrong. He has committed no crime and has broken no law. This would set a horrible precedent. I'm hard pressed to come up with a candidate that has been rejected from induction for similar reasons.

[Touch'EmAll]

Yes, agree Veterans Committee has let players in that should not be in the HOF. Why later after all the years of regular voting can the VC override the regular NO vote? Not good when VC says YES due to the Buddy system/Politics/other. Baines being in is a complete joke, a big ugly blemish on the HOF.

Then we have guys not in the Hall who actually did something significant, maybe actually started a few All-Star games, won an MVP award or two, were truly famous for their on-the-field accomplishments.

Ticks me off to see such things happen to the game I love. But alas, life is not always fair. Learned that long ago.

______________
Steve Parmentier

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Ricky

How are they cancelling him? He got 70+% of the vote from them. He just didn’t get 75%.

So I've already heard on ESPN radio this week that an interviewer had talked to a writer who had voted for Schilling for the first time this season. The writer then said that he would not be voting for Schilling next year because of the remarks he made after the raid on the Capitol on Jan 6. Is that not 'cancelling'?

I know, I don't have the names of the folks, but the writer did go unnamed in the report. So take it as you wish.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by rats60

The writers can exclude anyone they want for any reason.

And that is why there is a Veteran's Committee, to offset the 'any reason' part of the vote and have folks who played the game weigh in.

[vansaad]

I don't care if it's Frankenstein's monster, a dude that puts up these numbers should not only be in the Hall of Fame, but should be a centerpiece:

WAR Position Players
1987 NL 5.8 (9th)
1988 NL 6.3 (7th)
1989 NL 8.0 (3rd)
1990 NL 9.7 (1st)
1991 NL 8.0 (1st)
1992 NL 9.0 (1st)
1993 NL 9.9 (1st)
1994 NL 6.2 (2nd)
1995 NL 7.5 (1st)
1996 NL 9.7 (1st)
1997 NL 8.2 (4th)
1998 NL 8.1 (1st)
2000 NL 7.7 (3rd)
2001 NL 11.9 (1st)
2002 NL 11.7 (1st)
2003 NL 9.2 (1st)
2004 NL 10.6 (1st)
Career 162.8 (1st)


MVP (rank, share)
1990 NL (1, 99%)
1992 NL (1, 90%)
1993 NL (1, 95%)
2001 NL (1, 98%)
2002 NL (1, 100%)
2003 NL (1, 95%)
2004 NL (1, 91%)
7 MVPs

[BCauley]

Schilling was on the ballot eight other times previously and didn't get in. The first time he was on the ballot he was at 38% or something like that. Why is it suddenly now that people upset about him not getting in the eight other times he was on the ballot?

2013: 38.8%
2014: 29.2%
2015: 39.2%
2016: 52.3%
2017: 45%
2018: 51.2%
2019: 60.9%
2020: 70%
2021: 70%

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by BCauley

Schilling was on the ballot eight other times previously and didn't get in. The first time he was on the ballot he was at 38% or something like that. Why is it suddenly now that people upset about him not getting in the eight other times he was on the ballot?

2013: 38.8%
2014: 29.2%
2015: 39.2%
2016: 52.3%
2017: 45%
2018: 51.2%
2019: 60.9%
2020: 70%
2021: 70%

Why not just give the writers one shot, one time on the ballot? You're either a HOFer or you're not. Nothing changes with a career between 5 and 15 years after a player retires. Not one additional home run, not one more All-Star appearance, not a single strikeout. So why do the judges change their mind?? If you don't get voted in the first year, then on to one of the other committees. And take away the maximum number of players a person can vote for on any given ballot. Vote for all the players who you think are deserving of the HOF every year and be done with the ones who are not.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

And that is why there is a Veteran's Committee, to offset the 'any reason' part of the vote and have folks who played the game weigh in.

There have not been many misses by the writers. Eddie Plank, Arky Vaughan and Johnny Mize come to mind. The vast majority of their picks have been borderline candidates and players who don't belong.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by rats60

There have not been many misses by the writers. Eddie Plank, Arky Vaughan and Johnny Mize come to mind. The vast majority of their picks have been borderline candidates and players who don't belong.

One of the most egregious omissions by the "writers" was not inducting Johnny Mize into the HOF in the late 1950's (or early 1960's).
Johnny waited 23 years to finally be inducted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee in 1981.





I first met Johnny at the Meadowlands, NJ BB card Show in the Fall of 1981. I was set-up at this Show. Johnny was the guest signer.
His table was adjacent to mine. For 2 hours (in between "Big John" autographing), we had some really nice conversations Talkin' BB.
Before he left, he invited me to visit him in Demorest, Georgia, whenever I should be traveling down South.

On our way to Florida in 1987, I side-tracked into Georgia and visited with Johnny at his home. We reminisced for an hour (or more)
about the "good ole days". I recall asking him why he was traded by the Cardinals (1941), and then the Giants (1949) when he was
playing some really great BB. Johnny replied......
" I asked Billy Southworth (Mgr. St. Lo) for a pay increase. Southworth said no. Johnny told him....Pay me, or trade me ! "
This scenario was repeated with Durocher (Giants Mgr). The genius of Casey Stengel acquiring Johnny in 1949 benefited the Yankees
during their 1949 - 1953 "dynasty" years.

OK, having said all that, it's contemptible that the writers did not vote Curt Schilling into the HOF this year. He had 70% of their vote
last year. This year it was 71%. Shows you that a good number of these writers are just a bunch of "political hacks".

How does any one involved in Sports deny a Pitcher who achieved a Post-Season 11 - 2 Won - Lost record from being in the HOF ! ?
Show me another Pitcher in ML BB who comes close to that record.

Furthermore, Schilling has devoted a lot of his time, energy, and $$$$ for the ALS Foundation, and other Charities.


ENOUGH SAID !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by tedzan

One of the most egregious omissions by the "writers" was not inducting Johnny Mize into the HOF in the late 1950's (or early 1960's).
Johnny waited 23 years to finally be inducted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee in 1981.





I first met Johnny at the Meadowlands, NJ BB card Show in the Fall of 1981. I was set-up at this Show. Johnny was the guest signer.
His table was adjacent to mine. For 2 hours (in between "Big John" autographing), we had some really nice conversations Talkin' BB.
Before he left, he invited me to visit him in Demorest, Georgia, whenever I should be traveling down South.

On our way to Florida in 1987, I side-tracked into Georgia and visited with Johnny at his home. We reminisced for an hour (or more)
about the "good ole days". I recall asking him why he was traded by the Cardinals (1941), and then the Giants (1949) when he was
playing some really great BB. Johnny replied......
" I asked Billy Southworth (Mgr. St. Lo) for a pay increase. Southworth said no. Johnny told him....Pay me, or trade me ! "
This scenario was repeated with Durocher (Giants Mgr). The genius of Casey Stengel acquiring Johnny in 1949 benefited the Yankees
during their 1949 - 1953 "dynasty" years.

OK, having said all that, it is contemptible that the writer did not vote Curt Schilling into the HOF this year. He had 70% of their vote
last year. This year it was 71%. Shows you that a good number of these writers are just a bunch of "political hacks".

How does any one involved in Sports deny a Pitcher who achieved a Post-Season 11 - 2 Won - Lost record from being in the HOF ! ?
Show me another Pitcher in ML BB who comes close to that record.

Furthermore, Schilling has devoted a lot of his time, energy, and $$$$ for the ALS Foundation, and other Charities.


ENOUGH SAID !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Ted,

Thanks for a great story involving Mize. I've heard nothing but positive things about him. You look at his numbers and something just doesn't add up. How was he not elected sooner?

As to your point about Schilling, it's purely political at this point. Diamondbacks and Red Sox, do not win without him. He's one of four pitchers to strike out 300 batters in 3 seasons. He had 3, 20 Wins seasons as well. How he isn't in already, on numbers alone is shocking.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by tedzan

One of the most egregious omissions by the "writers" was not inducting Johnny Mize into the HOF in the late 1950's (or early 1960's).
Johnny waited 23 years to finally be inducted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee in 1981.





I first met Johnny at the Meadowlands, NJ BB card Show in the Fall of 1981. I was set-up at this Show. Johnny was the guest signer.
His table was adjacent to mine. For 2 hours (in between "Big John" autographing), we had some really nice conversations Talkin' BB.
Before he left, he invited me to visit him in Demorest, Georgia, whenever I should be traveling down South.

On our way to Florida in 1987, I side-tracked into Georgia and visited with Johnny at his home. We reminisced for an hour (or more)
about the "good ole days". I recall asking him why he was traded by the Cardinals (1941), and then the Giants (1949) when he was
playing some really great BB. Johnny replied......
" I asked Billy Southworth (Mgr. St. Lo) for a pay increase. Southworth said no. Johnny told him....Pay me, or trade me ! "
This scenario was repeated with Durocher (Giants Mgr). The genius of Casey Stengel acquiring Johnny in 1949 benefited the Yankees
during their 1949 - 1953 "dynasty" years.

OK, having said all that, it is contemptible that the writer did not vote Curt Schilling into the HOF this year. He had 70% of their vote
last year. This year it was 71%. Shows you that a good number of these writers are just a bunch of "political hacks".

How does any one involved in Sports deny a Pitcher who achieved a Post-Season 11 - 2 Won - Lost record from being in the HOF ! ?
Show me another Pitcher in ML BB who comes close to that record.

Furthermore, Schilling has devoted a lot of his time, energy, and $$$$ for the ALS Foundation, and other Charities.


ENOUGH SAID !


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

He is one of the most underrated players of all time.
.312/.397/.562 OPS+ 158. 14th all-time in SLG, 16th in OPS, 17th in OPS+. Mize gets over looked because he lost 3 full seasons of his prime to the war and didn't hit magic milestones. Today he would be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. My favorite stat is in 1947 he hit 51 HRs and struck out 42 times. The only time in history that a player hit 50 HRs with less than 50 SO. He led the NL in HRs 4 times and each season had less than 50 SO (in fact only one time did he SO 50+ times in a season with 57 in 1937).

[Seven]

Originally Posted by rats60

He is one of the most underrated players of all time.
.312/.397/.562 OPS+ 158. 14th all-time in SLG, 16th in OPS, 17th in OPS+. Mize gets over looked because he lost 3 full seasons of his prime to the war and didn't hit magic milestones. Today he would be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. My favorite stat is in 1947 he hit 51 HRs and struck out 42 times. The only time in history that a player hit 50 HRs with less than 50 SO. He led the NL in HRs 4 times and each season had less than 50 SO (in fact only one time did he SO 50+ times in a season with 57 in 1937).

the more you look at his numbers, the more impressed you get, especially considering the time he lost to the War. Would've easily had over 400 Home Runs, and close to, if not over, 2500 hits.

[JollyElm]

How about a cool 'Big Cat' card...

1967laughlin1952mizeandsnider.jpg

[Brian Van Horn]

Just curious. Not sure if it is this year or next year, but when is the vote on Dahlen and other players of his era?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Why not just give the writers one shot, one time on the ballot?

Congrats! You just kicked Joe Dimaggio out of the Hall. Took Joe D *three* times to get in.

[Tabe]

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling has said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling as said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

Concerning point one I've said multiple times that "it wasn't illegal then" as my argument, but really thinking about it, I don't think it's an issue of legality. Granted I cannot speak for others, I think that it's not so much that steroids were against the rules, or their legality, it's the fact that, the owners and the commissioner made out like bandits from guys like Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc but when it comes time to give the players their due for helping propel the sport post strike or keep baseball's popularity heading into the 2000's they shun them. Another thing I take issue with is the fact that the Writers that were voting for guys like Clemens, Bonds and Rodriguez to win the MVP are mostly the same writers, that are now in charge of putting them in keeping them out of the hall of fame.

Concerning two, well that's a very fair assessment, I completely forgot about his failed video game company.

Concerning Three and the ortiz issue, I agree on both fronts. Belle Belongs in the Hall of Fame, and if Ortiz gets in before Bonds and Clemens my head will spin

[Ricky]

Ortiz must still be on roids because he looks exactly the same now as he did when he played, unlike say, mark McGuire...

He had one test that came back positive and we don’t have any idea for what. He was tested many, many times over many years and never had another positive test yet kept putting up great numbers. He was never ripped like Bonds, just kind of roly-poly. I’m not convinced Ortiz was dirty.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Ortiz must still be on roids because he looks exactly the same now as he did when he played, unlike say, mark McGuire...

He had one test that came back positive and we don’t have any idea for what. He was tested many, many times over many years and never had another positive test yet kept putting up great numbers. He was never ripped like Bonds, just kind of roly-poly. I’m not convinced Ortiz was dirty.

Alex Rodriguez never tested positive for steroids That doesn't mean he wasn't using them.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by tedzan

One of the most egregious omissions by the "writers" was not inducting Johnny Mize into the HOF in the late 1950's (or early 1960's).

Johnny waited 23 years to finally be inducted into the HOF by the Veterans Committee in 1981.











I first met Johnny at the Meadowlands, NJ BB card Show in the Fall of 1981. I was set-up at this Show. Johnny was the guest signer.

His table was adjacent to mine. For 2 hours (in between "Big John" autographing), we had some really nice conversations Talkin' BB.

Before he left, he invited me to visit him in Demorest, Georgia, whenever I should be traveling down South.



On our way to Florida in 1987, I side-tracked into Georgia and visited with Johnny at his home. We reminisced for an hour (or more)

about the "good ole days". I recall asking him why he was traded by the Cardinals (1941), and then the Giants (1949) when he was

playing some really great BB. Johnny replied......

" I asked Billy Southworth (Mgr. St. Lo) for a pay increase. Southworth said no. Johnny told him....Pay me, or trade me ! "

This scenario was repeated with Durocher (Giants Mgr). The genius of Casey Stengel acquiring Johnny in 1949 benefited the Yankees

during their 1949 - 1953 "dynasty" years.



OK, having said all that, it's contemptible that the writers did not vote Curt Schilling into the HOF this year. He had 70% of their vote

last year. This year it was 71%. Shows you that a good number of these writers are just a bunch of "political hacks".



How does any one involved in Sports deny a Pitcher who achieved a Post-Season 11 - 2 Won - Lost record from being in the HOF ! ?

Show me another Pitcher in ML BB who comes close to that record.



Furthermore, Schilling has devoted a lot of his time, energy, and $$$$ for the ALS Foundation, and other Charities.





ENOUGH SAID !





TED Z



T206 Reference

.

Throw Ernie Lombardi into the egregious category. Kept out because of a personal issue with Warren Giles (if you believe the rumors).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Gonna respond to lots points all at once here:

1) Why do people bring up that steroids weren't banned when discussing them? Does it matter? They were illegal, as in against the law. MLB doesn't have a rule against armed bank robbery either but do we really think somebody wouldn't be punished for committing one?

2) Lots of people talking about stuff Curt Schilling has said - FYI, advocating for the murder of journalists isn't an "opinion" - but no one talking about what he did. Let's not forget he ripped off the state of Rhode Island to the tune of $75 million.

3) Somebody asked for another example of somebody who had 100+ RBI in 7 straight seasons and isn't in the Hall, like Gil Hodge. Here ya go: Albert Belle, who did it in 9 straight seasons. Belle belongs in the Hall, btw, and should be an absolute no-brainer.

Personally, I don't care if players did PEDs. I've gone back and forth on that over the years and have decided I no longer care. There are guys in the Hall that did them - Piazza, Bagwell, Ivan Rodriguez, to name three - and they were ALL OVER THE game in the 90s and 2000s. Hitters and pitchers using them. It's impossible to separate that guys that did them from the guys that didn't. And, besides players, there's already two guys in the Hall who benefited from them (Bud Selig and Tony LaRussa, whose criminal history seemed to bother no one). So, no, I wouldn't keep somebody out based on their PED usage.

I will say, though, the idea of David Ortiz getting in before Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens makes my head spin. He couldn't carry the jock of Bonds or Clemens and definitely couldn't without the roids.

"he" didn't rip off the state of Rhode Island. That's your opinion. His company accepted a bond sale from thre state t move his company to Rhode Island. They went bankrupt and the state charged his company with fraud for the fact they weren't forthcoming in their projected sales etc. They settled for 2.5 million. Schilling maintains his innocense. He also lost 50 million of his own money.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Just curious. Not sure if it is this year or next year, but when is the vote on Dahlen and other players of his era?

This election was supposed to take place in 2020, but was postponed until 2021 due to Covid.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Just curious. Not sure if it is this year or next year, but when is the vote on Dahlen and other players of his era?

Was supposed to have been this past December during the Winter Meetings, but everything was cancelled due to Covid. That Era's vote will now take place in December 2021.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by rats60

Alex Rodriguez never tested positive for steroids That doesn't mean he wasn't using them.

Wasn’t ARod suspended?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Ricky

Wasn’t ARod suspended?

Yes, but he never did test positive as far as I can remember. However, there was evidence from some place in Florida and he eventually admitted to using steroids even without a positive test.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by cammb

"he" didn't rip off the state of Rhode Island. That's your opinion. His company accepted a bond sale from thre state t move his company to Rhode Island. They went bankrupt and the state charged his company with fraud for the fact they weren't forthcoming in their projected sales etc. They settled for 2.5 million. Schilling maintains his innocense. He also lost 50 million of his own money.

The state actually won $61m from Schilling and his company. Schilling and his company lied to the state when getting the $75m, not telling Rhode Island that the money wasn't enough to fund development of the game they were promising. They also mismanaged the money they did receive.

So, yeah, he - and his company - ripped off the state.

[Ricky]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The state actually won $61m from Schilling and his company. Schilling and his company lied to the state when getting the $75m, not telling Rhode Island that the money wasn't enough to fund development of the game they were promising. They also mismanaged the money they did receive.

So, yeah, he - and his company - ripped off the state.

As a Rhode Island resident, this is true. Not many RIers are shedding tears for poor Curt in regard to him not getting into the HOF.