Jacob deGrom most Ks in first 200 games

[packs]

I'm not saying the number 2 should close, I'm questioning whether he could.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm not saying the number 2 should close, I'm questioning whether he could.

of course they could...not many failed closers are number 2 starters versus failed number 3-5 pitchers leading their team in saves for a year or so or more


Look at Tom Gordon, when he tailed off he became a closer... It can be argued Mariano Rivera was a failed Starter.

Wilie Hernandez failed starter....

i dont see Eric Gagne lighting it up as a starting pitcher....

in fact usually when you fail a closer you could fund yourself without any job......you always hear about bad closers giving up tons of runs in non save situations but squeak by on save situations..so when the saves stop coming sometimes they out of league in a year or so....if fail as a starter you can always be a reliever even if not a closer..


Its not like kimbrel will becaome a starter if he loses his closer job, its more likely he out of the league in a few years if that happens for example...

if walker bueler comes back next year, i bet he would be a better closer than half the closers out there if dodgers decide to switch him

[packs]

I think you're discounting what closers do and how difficult it is to be an elite closer for a long period of time. There are very few closers with any kind of longevity.

I don't support what you're saying about failed starters either. So what if a guy started out as one thing in pro ball and became another? Why is that discounted? What are you looking to take away? Mariano Rivera was a shortstop when he got signed. Jorge Posada was a second baseman when he started his career in the minors.

[Mike D.]

Yes, two different positions, with two different skill sets.

Nobody says "most shortstops could play second base, so there shouldn't be any second basemen in the hall of fame."

Or maybe they do, but those people are probably kinda nuts.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Yes, two different positions, with two different skill sets.

Nobody says "most shortstops could play second base, so there shouldn't be any second basemen in the hall of fame."

Or maybe they do, but those people are probably kinda nuts.

well like the NBA with Center/Forward , players are starting to play multiple postions more in the MLB

but closer and starting pitcher is not the same as 2nd and SS. Plus defense really isnt factored into it unless the player is on the extreme extreme end good or bad, if they hit 600 home runs i dont think defense matters at all etc.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

I think you're discounting what closers do and how difficult it is to be an elite closer for a long period of time. There are very few closers with any kind of longevity.

I don't support what you're saying about failed starters either. So what if a guy started out as one thing in pro ball and became another? Why is that discounted? What are you looking to take away? Mariano Rivera was a shortstop when he got signed. Jorge Posada was a second baseman when he started his career in the minors.

you keep moving the goal posts....we are talking about pitching..yeah all great players that were pitching in the major leagues may of been hitters at one time as they were elite athletes growing up..so waht.. Heck there is a DH now so its just about pitching and dont need to bring up the fact about them being hitters.

So show me all of these guys that used to close that are now good Starting pitchers ..i can name you a LOT of good closers that were failed starters.......yeah may be hard for pitchers who werent good enough to start to fulfill a job as closer and those are hard to find.....agree its hard to find a closer from that pool of talent.....i argue its not that hard to find a closer from the 25th-40th best Starting pitcher in mlb..which i would assume is about a 2nd starter on most teams...

Can probably run down the list of number 2 starters and the closer on their team and given a choice of closer, we would rather have the SP be the closer ...Pablo Lopez would be better than whoever the marlins use to close for example.....

you also forget a starting pitcher who may have to hold back some velocity and some pitches for the 2nd and 3rd time through the lineup doesnt have to worry about that when pitching 1 inning.......2 and 3 run leads are still 'saves', it doesnt matter how much a team is up, a starting pitcher still needs great stats to be considered an all star....Wins arent enough as has been discussed at length..

[Snapolit1]

DeGrom has 2 BB in his first 5 starts back and 46 strikeouts.

Mets taking it easy with 6 inning starts. Fine with me. Let him go nine in the World Series.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

DeGrom has 2 BB in his first 5 starts back and 46 strikeouts.

Mets taking it easy with 6 inning starts. Fine with me. Let him go nine in the World Series.

He is amazing and they are smart for ramping him up to ensure he stays healthy for the WS run. Him and Scherzer make the METS dangerous in the playoffs him they are both healthy against any team

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

He is amazing and they are smart for ramping him up to ensure he stays healthy for the WS run. Him and Scherzer make the METS dangerous in the playoffs him they are both healthy against any team

i think he would be HOF closer and could pitch 1/6 of the innings as he would have as a starting pitcher and extend career by years to get the good totals for HOF that he likely wont get as a SP

im sure the current Mets closer who is an all star and likely top 1 or 2 closer this year would be able to match Degrom's Starting pitching stats since closing is as hard as starting pitching