1959 Topps Salesman Sample question

[ALR-bishop]

If a Topps Salesman Sample from 1959 had Mays and Joe De Maestri on it, anyone have any idea/theory who the 3d player would have been ?

[fkw]

Salesman Sample??

Are the cards you refer to smaller than a normal card and say "PROMOTIONAL SAMPLE, THE TOPPS CO., Brooklyn NY" on the blank back?

If so they are not authentic, they are photos are cards cut from the Topps Baseball Cards Book or Team Issued Surf Books, and worthless.

If its something else, Id like to see pictures

[steve B]

Probably a Topps Ad panel. Some were 3 cards with an ad back, some were 2 cards with an aditional card size ad on the front. I think 59 was 3 cards, I'll have to find mine and see since I can't recall which just now.

I think, but I'm not positive that the 3 card panels had the same layout as the regular sheets.

Steve B

[Griffins]

'59 Salesman Samples are legit and were issued as 3 card panels. The card on the back does not correspond to any on the front.
I've got a couple, but not one with Mays on it. This is the front and back of one of mine, for some reason I scanned them at different sizes


Salesman Samples were issued by Topps from '52 thru '67, all 3 card panels with the exception of '60, which has 8 cards. The '55 panels also include a '55 Doubleheader on the back, as seen below.


Bowman issued them in '54 and '55. The '54's are 4 card panels, 2x2, with a sticker on the back. The '55's are 3 card panels with a sticker covering the entire back panel, as seen below


Fleer also issued a 3 card Salesman Sample in '59. I have not seen one from any other years. I have a whole bunch of 3 & 4 card panels from other Topps, Bowman and Fleer issues, but without any ad copy on the back they just seem like strips of uncut cards, and not ad panels.

[ALR-bishop]

Anthony---that is interesting about the back card stats not matching anyone on the front. I wonder if that argues against being able to predict who the 3d player was on Don's cut 2 card panel.

Steve---that is what I am trying to find out, was De Maestri next to Mays on the first series sheets, and if so, who was next to them. Interesting that someone would cut off a card and leave Mays....unless it was Mantle

[Griffins]

Al, not only do they not match anyone on the front, in at least the case of this '57 panel the number of the card on the back is incorrect- in '57 #87 was Tom Gorman, not Clint Courtney, as it was on this panel (this one is not mine, it sold in the last Mile High)


The few salesman samples I have that I also have uncut production sheets for match up on the fronts, the backs are a completely new creation. I would suspect if you can find a 1st series sheet from '59 you'll see who is missing from Don's panel.

[ALR-bishop]

Great item Anthony. Don't go cutting Yogi off..

[ecRich]

Here is a three card salesman sample from the 1960 set.

[toppcat]

The backs were always just a random player on the one card that was supposed to be representative of an actual card. 1957 Duke Snider's were the most well known variety a while back and I believe have at least two different backs. With arrays 11 rows across, wonder why they almost always used three cards, seems like they could run two columns of three cards then use a larger piece for a point of sale display (5 cards across), unless the used a smaller sheet for these. A full uncut sheet of samples would be a cool find-can't recall ever seeing one.

[Griffins]

ECRich-
Is that a complete panel, or do you think it was cut from the bigger one?
The only examples I've seen are considerably bigger, but it would make sense that they did 3 card panels as well, since they did them for 8 years before and after.

[ecRich]

Anthony,
It is a complete panel, very much like those from other years. Can you post a scan of one of the larger 1960 samples?
Rich

[steve B]

Here's my full panel. Plus a partial panel of a different type that had an ad on the left end of the front. The partial panel is blank backed.

The reason for 3 card panels is pretty simple, a 3 card panel fits nicely inside a folded brochure/letter/price list/order sheet inside a #10 envelope.

I'm thinking that maybe they were printed as their own print run. The panel with the ad would seem to bear this out. I don't have any of the 5 cards as regular cards, but I think it might be worth comparing the cards to the issued ones, as there is bound to be at least some difference.

Steve B

[Griffins]

Here's the '60 Salesman Sample, sorry for the lousy image- it was pulled from an old auction catalog, probably Mastro.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm thinking that maybe they were printed as their own print run. The panel with the ad would seem to bear this out. I don't have any of the 5 cards as regular cards, but I think it might be worth comparing the cards to the issued ones, as there is bound to be at least some difference.

I only have access to the Johnson and Lehman cards, they don't appear to have any differences (I was thinking they would have very slight differences, llike the recently discovered 1963 variations).

Doug

[ValKehl]

of the 2 that I have. Note that the 1957 has the same "incorrect" # 87 Courtney on the back. If anyone has a panel with either Pete Runnels or Mickey Vernon (my childhood favorites) on it and is willing to part with it, I'm all ears!
Val

[Rickyy]

I always thought these were printed randomly..its intersting to see all the combos...interesting this one panel I have is concentrated on Ohio teams..so I always wondered if this was shown around in Cleveland and Cincinnati....




Ricky Y

[whiteymet]

I'll add my 1954 Topps with Ashburn to the discussion. Ad on back is a sticker

[toppcat]

That is a great 54 piece-it really shows how the gum was still the main product...amazing to think of now but it really was bubblegum wars back then.

[Bob Lemke]

I see that the sticker on the back of the 1954 strip mentions "FOUR COLOR BACKS". Am I seeing things or is the type in the player bio and the cartoon captions actually blue on these samples? Those are black on the issued cards.

[toppcat]

Black White Red Green?

[Big Six]

I see Blue, too...

[hcv123]

Some beautiful salesman sample panels in the current legendary sale. Anybody see them?

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Bob Lemke

I see that the sticker on the back of the 1954 strip mentions "FOUR COLOR BACKS". Am I seeing things or is the type in the player bio and the cartoon captions actually blue on these samples? Those are black on the issued cards.

Hi Bob:

Fred McKie here. The scan just LOOKS blue for the player bios. It is actually black.

I guess the four colors are Red, White, Black, Green, although I see some brown and gray in the back Inside Baseball three panel on the Hamner card.

[JayBird95816]

Here are a few from my collection:

1955 Bowman w/ Hank Aaron

1957 Topps w/ Willie Mays, Nellie Fox & Robin Roberts

1960 Topps w/ Ernie Banks & Al Kaline (mentioned earier in the thread)

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by JayBird95816

Here are a few from my collection:

1955 Bowman w/ Hank Aaron

1957 Topps w/ Willie Mays, Nellie Fox & Robin Roberts

1960 Topps w/ Ernie Banks & Al Kaline (mentioned earier in the thread)

Those are AWESOME! Thanks for sharing.

[Griffins]

Incredible!
Are the '57 and '60 panels on regular card stock? Anything on the back?
Since Topps also made 3 card panels for those years I'm wondering if those are more like window displays, possibly on thinner stock?

[jmoran19]

Nice!

To me those 8 card salesman samples look like they have printing in the margin between the two halfs of the full 264 card sheet

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

Nice!

To me those 8 card salesman samples look like they have printing in the margin between the two halfs of the full 264 card sheet

Yup-right down the gutter-very interesting!

[JayBird95816]

They are blank backed on regular card stock.

There's a 1962 panel for sale on e-bay for the last year or so with Sandy Koufax. Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1962-Topps-Sampl...item2556de53d4

He's looking for around $15,000 for it.

[steve B]

Wow, 15K? Seems more than just overpriced, more than optimistically priced and well into the somewhat crazy category.

Of course, I could be wrong.... A bit of quick math.... I'll sell mine for 5600, or 3000 for the partial panel

Steve B

[toledo_mudhen]

Where do you guys find this stuff? I've been looking forever for a "sample" from 1955. Anybody got 1 that they could part with?

[JayBird95816]

I contacted the 1962 Koufax sheet e-bay seller back in November '09 when I first saw the listing on e-bay and he told me that his was so valuable because of its condition. He was unimpressed with mine because they were not mint. When I had the opportunity to acquire mine, I wasn't about to quibble over the condition of the corners or a minor crease. Seriously, are you really going to pass on a sample sheet with HOFers because you hope to find the same item in better condition? Get real. Since they are so rare, there really isn't an established market price (unlike single cards). They are worth whatever someone is willing to pay. That being said, since this item first appeared for sale on e-bay in November '09 and there hasn't been any takers, I suspect he is too high. Heck, I'm a seller at $15,000.

[ls7plus]

I thind you've got it exactly right, JayBird. If you see an ultra rare item you've been looking for and pass it up for reasons of condition, it may be years before you see another--if ever! It took me over a decade to find examples of the '56 Kahn's Frank Robinson and 1947 Tip Top Bread Ralph Kiner offered as single lots, after I passed on a Robinson because of very minor back damage, and I think the very same card finally made its way back to me only early last year.

Larry

[horzverti]

Does anyone here know what the 1963 Topps baseball salesman sample variations are?

[Griffins]

Here are the 2 '63 Topps I have, they both have the same back




and just because it's the same year, a '63 Fleer 3 card panel. The back is normal card printing

[ALR-bishop]

Neat that you have the Adcock on it Anthony

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by fkw

Salesman Sample??

Are the cards you refer to smaller than a normal card and say "PROMOTIONAL SAMPLE, THE TOPPS CO., Brooklyn NY" on the blank back?

If so they are not authentic, they are photos are cards cut from the Topps Baseball Cards Book or Team Issued Surf Books, and worthless.

If its something else, Id like to see pictures

There are salesman's samples from even a number of early sets, such as M101-4. I've seem them, they're made from the same plate and not rescreened, demonstrating the appropriate dot/ink pattern. They'll come out when the time is right, when the cynics among us would like to shoot them down, but won't be able to.

Leave a little mystery for now. Time will eventually reveal all.

Larry

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by fkw

Salesman Sample??

Are the cards you refer to smaller than a normal card and say "PROMOTIONAL SAMPLE, THE TOPPS CO., Brooklyn NY" on the blank back?

If so they are not authentic, they are photos are cards cut from the Topps Baseball Cards Book or Team Issued Surf Books, and worthless.

If its something else, Id like to see pictures

I missed this when it was the second post after my original. I am familiar with these things and in fact have a couple of them. I got them only after Bob L listed them in the SCD Catalog as fakes and with a picture and explanation ( I think a 62 Mantle is pictured but the description is listed under 1960). The interesting thing to me is what value items obtain just by the fact they get listed in the Catalog...even as fakes. For example, I paid a few bucks for the 2 I have, knowing they were fakes, just because they were in the Catalog

[steve B]

That's true in other hobbies too. Some forged stamps by famous forgers like Sperati are worth more than the originals.

Steve B

[divot]

I own a Topps 1960 panel with Dutch Dotterer, Ruben Gomez, and Rocky Bridges on the front and Jerry Lynch on the back behind Bridges. The usual "sales pitch" is written behind Dotterer and Gomez. I obtained the panel from the owner of a small grocery in Tennessee when I was a boy; I have had it ever since. (I also own a complete 1960 NM-class Topps set, which I have upgraded in recent years to improve centering and other issues). Although I have seen numerous examples of the 1960 8-card Salesman Sample and other 3-card panels, I have not come across another example of the "Dotterer, Gomez, Bridges" version. Can anyone shed any light on whether he/she has encountered this particular version and upon its relative scarcity or abundance?

I am having trouble scanning the panel (I'm new to Net54. The front and back of the panel are scanned into my computer in pdf format, but I cannot make the Net54 system upload the photos). Owning thousands of cards and being an active buyer over the past decade, I'm just about certain that my panel is EX+ or so. Although I have kept it in pretty good shape over the years, it has slight wear on one corner.

[ALR-bishop]

After scanning to my computer I upload the photos to Photobucket, or similar host site, and then can edit them and upload them to 54 or CU. Photobucket is free until you exceed a certain capacity

[divot]

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

[bigfanNY]

Early post states that Bowman had salesman samples only in 54 and 55 This panel from 53 I have owned for quite some time. I was told the way to tell that it was a salesman sample vs just three cards cut from a sheet was that cards numbers on Salesman samples are sequential vs the random numbering of production sheets.

[Griffins]

I've heard that argument before but I am very skeptical- there is no advertising copy on it and I don't see how it was intended as a sales piece.
I have a similar strip from '53, just sold a '48 Leaf boxing one yesterday, and have numerous Fleer 3 card strips. But none of those have any advertising copy on it and as such are just 3 card panels. One auction house recently told me that with salesman samples selling for so much these days they would call any uncut panel a salesman sample. Somehow that didn't surprise me, but it didn't make it accurate either.

Edited to add: Below is the uncut '53 Bowman sheet that I own. You'll notice all the cards are in numerical order, starting with Reese in the upper left, and then going across and then down. This was how Bowman laid out their set. It would seem to underscore my assertion that there is nothing about 3 card '53 panels that would make them salesman samples, other than the fact they are cut into 3 card panels.

[hcv123]

Unfortunately I do not own it.......yet (but I know where it lives ). Thought it might be appreciated here. Enjoy.

-Howard


Ps. If you have any SUPER RARE or UNUSUAL Clemente items give me a shout - I am always searching for things Clemente I don't know exist.

[Mark70Z]

That Clemente sample is "amazing"...

Anyone have any strips w/Brooks Robby included?!? I "think" there was one...correct?

[ALR-bishop]

Bravo Howard. What are you still seeking ?

[hcv123]

The issues I know exist that I am seeking:

1960 Bazooka complete box with Clemente (20 piece and 25 piece variation)
1963 Bazooka box 25 piece
1964 Bazooka box 25 piece
1965 Bazooka box 25 piece
1966 Bazooka box 25 piece
1967 Bazooka box 25 piece
1960 Harmony milk 8 x 10
09-15-1960 Horne's department store premium
1968 Topps Disc
1967 giant stand up non die cut
1967 punch out stadium background

Anything that I don't know exists

Also looking for a high grade psa 7 or 8 1963 stat back exhibit

[ALR-bishop]

Am I recalling correctly that you have the 67 Pin Up proof or variation

[toppcat]

Howard-Are the card sizes on the 20 and 25 count Bazooka's different?