NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on Ebay
Pre-WWII Cards
Post WWII Cards
Vintage Memorabilia
Babe Ruth Cards
Ty Cobb Cards
Lou Gehrig Cards
Mickey Mantle Cards
Goudey Cards
Bowman Cards
T205s on Ebay
Tobacco "T" Cards
Caramel "E" Cards
Vintage Baseball Postcards
Football Cards on Ebay
Exhibit Cards
Strip Cards
Baking Cards
Sporting News
Playball Cards on Ebay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #301  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:50 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is online now
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,363
Default

Yes, thanks Peter, for posting that... It’s about as damning as evidence gets. I see no way that PWCC can survive this, assuming law enforcement is even somewhat monitoring this. The evidence looks irrefutable.

They ruined some truly great cards in that particular submission. And why the hell is PSA passing these cards, when over half of the submission is deemed altered? Even the most elementary system should’ve raised 15 red flags.
Reply With Quote
  #302  
Old 07-10-2019, 02:56 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-10-2019 at 02:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #303  
Old 07-10-2019, 03:15 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 8,052
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.
Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
Judge a man by how he treats someone who can do nothing for him--Nick Charles
God is not on our side because He hates idiots--The Good
I've had a lovely time, but this wasn't it--Groucho
Reply With Quote
  #304  
Old 07-10-2019, 05:16 PM
Steve D's Avatar
Steve D Steve D is offline
5t3v3...D4.w50n
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,460
Default

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

[quote=Exhibitman;1897667]Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.


So, they don't ban the person outright, but let them continue to submit. The TPG does however, put that person's submissions under extra special scrutiny (double-secret probation?). That way, the TPG still gets their money, even though they're sending the cards back to the person, ungraded/unslabbed.

Steve
__________________
Successful BST deals with eliotdeutsch, gonzo, jimivintage, Leon, lharris3600, Mrc32, sb1, seablaster, shammus, veloce.

Current Wantlist:
1909 Obak Howard (Los Angeles) (no frame on back)
Reply With Quote
  #305  
Old 07-10-2019, 05:48 PM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,519
Default

[quote=Steve D;1897703]Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.


So, they don't ban the person outright, but let them continue to submit. The TPG does however, put that person's submissions under extra special scrutiny (double-secret probation?). That way, the TPG still gets their money, even though they're sending the cards back to the person, ungraded/unslabbed.

Steve
Private speculation or should I say what if they submit cards in holders which the graders can recognize. Then they get stuff passed/bumped and the graders gets a special thank you at a later date.
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items and baseball currency from the 19th Century.

Last edited by BeanTown; 07-10-2019 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Better wording than Rumorville
Reply With Quote
  #306  
Old 07-10-2019, 06:27 PM
wondo wondo is offline
John Wondowski
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 947
Default

[quote=BeanTown;1897712]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve D View Post
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth
Yeah separate and apart from Brent and PWCC, I have often wondered why at some point if they are seeing too many altered cards in a submission they don't just punt the whole submission back, note well who the submitter is, and ban the submitter or put future subs under special scrutiny. I don't know what goes on at that company.



Rumorville has it that they submit cards in holders which the graders can recognize. Then they get stuff passed/bumped and the graders gets a special thank you at a later date.
Wow - now we have hit bottom.
Reply With Quote
  #307  
Old 07-10-2019, 06:37 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is offline
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 6,224
Default

[quote=wondo;1897726]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanTown View Post

Wow - now we have hit bottom.
How? not sure exactly what you are referring to so figured I would ask.
__________________
NEED: 1959 Fleer Ted Williams #45 & #65 to finish my lower end ungraded set.
Reply With Quote
  #308  
Old 07-10-2019, 06:52 PM
wondo wondo is offline
John Wondowski
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 947
Default

My comment was a reaction to jay cee gossiping about totally corruption. “Rumorville”? Either there is some evidence of that activity or the post is irresponsible.
Reply With Quote
  #309  
Old 07-10-2019, 06:59 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is offline
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 6,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wondo View Post
My comment was a reaction to jay cee gossiping about totally corruption. “Rumorville”? Either there is some evidence of that activity or the post is irresponsible.
That is what I though but figured I would ask. I somewhat agree with you at calling them out without proof. Could be a fact and he is not at liberty to give up his source.

My problem is could the graders really be that completely incompetent. If so how the hell does someone that worthless at their job keep it.
__________________
NEED: 1959 Fleer Ted Williams #45 & #65 to finish my lower end ungraded set.
Reply With Quote
  #310  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:08 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,855
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
If so how the hell does someone that worthless at their job keep it.
If they suspended or fired the graders that have graded all those submissions in the threads, they might not have anyone left? Are they researching which graders reviewed all of those submissions? I don't know.

They are unwilling to tell, so far, if they are Incompetent or Involved.
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #311  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:34 PM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,519
Default

A quick search shows PSA is currently seeking new graders. One of their bullets struck me as odd. "Sharing knowledge to help improve skill of PSA Grading Team" My first thought was they want new people to come in and help show them HOW to grade. You would think that PSA would have a training program and teach everyone how to be subjective and do it the same way everytime.

http://collectorsuniverse.com/Jobs/List/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0141.jpg (69.9 KB, 616 views)
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items and baseball currency from the 19th Century.
Reply With Quote
  #312  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:45 PM
wondo wondo is offline
John Wondowski
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 947
Default

It also says “Maintain quality of grading product” - not advance or improve. They must be confident in their current product.

Both Bulletpoint descriptions are fodder. To nitpick, dissect or assign meaning to either is silly.

Last edited by wondo; 07-10-2019 at 07:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #313  
Old 07-10-2019, 07:46 PM
swarmee's Avatar
swarmee swarmee is offline
J0hn Raff3rty
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Niceville FL
Posts: 4,855
Default

Remember, they are also having a "try your skills at grading" competition at the National. And according to their radio show this afternoon, you should expect there to be some counterfeits and/or altered cards within the cards you're supposed to grade.
Winner gets $1000, and maybe a callback?
__________________
--
PWCC: The Fish Stinks From the Head
PSA: Regularly Get Cheated
BGS: Can't detect trimming on modern
SGC: Closed auto authentication business
JSA: Approved same T206 Autos before SGC
Oh, what a difference a year makes.
Reply With Quote
  #314  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:01 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 6,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wondo View Post
It also says “Maintain quality of grading product” - not advance or improve. They must be confident in their current product.

Both Bulletpoint descriptions are fodder. To nitpick, dissect or assign meaning to either is silly.
Other than how obsessed they are with "production goals" mentioning it twice.

Overall I'd be more concerned with getting things right over "production goals"
Reply With Quote
  #315  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:01 PM
BeanTown's Avatar
BeanTown BeanTown is offline
Jay Cee
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,519
Default

And why do you need strong verbal communication skills? You are being hired because you have great eyes and know how to grade behind the curtain or closed doors which the public never sees. Not sure how having strong verbal skills helps grading other than them being popular among other graders in the back during break time.
__________________
Love Ty Cobb rare items and baseball currency from the 19th Century.

Last edited by BeanTown; 07-10-2019 at 08:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #316  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:20 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
Kenny Cole
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarmee View Post
Remember, they are also having a "try your skills at grading" competition at the National. And according to their radio show this afternoon, you should expect there to be some counterfeits and/or altered cards within the cards you're supposed to grade.
Winner gets $1000, and maybe a callback?
Riiiight. Because PSA would obviously know. That has been proven beyond a doubt lately.
Reply With Quote
  #317  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:24 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

The better gimmick would be to put the graders' skills on display.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #318  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:35 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
Kenny Cole
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 1,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The better gimmick would be to put the graders' skills on display.
I would suggest that is absolutely what PSA doesn't want to do.
Reply With Quote
  #319  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:36 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Cole View Post
I would suggest that is absolutely what PSA doesn't want to do.
I couldn't find the sarcasm font.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #320  
Old 07-10-2019, 08:59 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
Scott Russell
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,153
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Money, sonny. Everything is about money.

Arnold Rothstein: What's the secret of America? MONEY! Everything is MONEY, Charlie.

Yeah but a bad faith clause where they get to keep the money would solve that. To me it's incompetence from executive decision making, down to peon graders.
__________________
Check out http://www.birminghamauctioneers.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible!
Reply With Quote
  #321  
Old 07-10-2019, 09:43 PM
jackwesq jackwesq is offline
member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
Default

Hi everyone. There's a great scene in the movie Margin Call where Risk Analyst Peter Sullivan (played by Zachary Quinto) tells CEO John Tuld (played by Jeremy Irons) that if the company's assets of mortgage-backed securities were to drop by just 25% and remain on the books, that loss would be greater than the current market capitalization of the entire company.

With that in mind, I wonder if PSA were to pay out on their guarantee on every single altered card, if that payout would be greater than CLTC’s current market capitalization of $217M. Based on what I have read here and on Blowout Cards, I’m not confident it would not.
Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 07-11-2019, 09:00 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 6,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwesq View Post
Hi everyone. There's a great scene in the movie Margin Call where Risk Analyst Peter Sullivan (played by Zachary Quinto) tells CEO John Tuld (played by Jeremy Irons) that if the company's assets of mortgage-backed securities were to drop by just 25% and remain on the books, that loss would be greater than the current market capitalization of the entire company.

With that in mind, I wonder if PSA were to pay out on their guarantee on every single altered card, if that payout would be greater than CLTC’s current market capitalization of $217M. Based on what I have read here and on Blowout Cards, I’m not confident it would not.
But they aren't paying on the guarantee. They've successfully deflected the responsibility back on the sellers, reducing their liability.

For example, card graded A =200 graded 5= 1000 graded 6= 2000

Instead of paying the owner 1800 for a card altered from a 5 to a 6, they have them return it, and maybe pay the scammer 800. Unless they have some excuse to not pay the seller, perhaps referring them back up the chain to whoever altered it who they probably don't have to pay.

Brilliant, but scummy.
Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 07-11-2019, 12:18 PM
bnorth's Avatar
bnorth bnorth is offline
Ben North
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 6,224
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
But they aren't paying on the guarantee. They've successfully deflected the responsibility back on the sellers, reducing their liability.

For example, card graded A =200 graded 5= 1000 graded 6= 2000

Instead of paying the owner 1800 for a card altered from a 5 to a 6, they have them return it, and maybe pay the scammer 800. Unless they have some excuse to not pay the seller, perhaps referring them back up the chain to whoever altered it who they probably don't have to pay.

Brilliant, but scummy.
I think it is brilliant also. The problem is like we seen on here with the T3 Cobb and Dan McKee. If the sale wasn't through eBay and recent enough for eBay/PayPal to force a refund the cards owner is out of other options. With private sales and older sales the seller just tells the buyer to pound sand.
__________________
NEED: 1959 Fleer Ted Williams #45 & #65 to finish my lower end ungraded set.
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:06 PM
PolarBear's Avatar
PolarBear PolarBear is offline
Don
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 632
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
Unless they have some excuse to not pay the seller, perhaps referring them back up the chain to whoever altered it who they probably don't have to pay.

I think that's the strategy because it's a violation of their TOS to knowingly submit altered cards. So, if they can push the refunds back to the submitter, they won't have to pay anything.
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 07-11-2019, 03:59 PM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 8,052
Default

Class action suit will follow...
__________________
Please visit my web site: www.americasgreatboxingcards.com
Judge a man by how he treats someone who can do nothing for him--Nick Charles
God is not on our side because He hates idiots--The Good
I've had a lovely time, but this wasn't it--Groucho
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 07-11-2019, 05:51 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is online now
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Class action suit will follow...
We can only hope...
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 07-12-2019, 04:51 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Joe D turns over a new Leaf.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4137
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 07-12-2019, 08:14 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Mercy another whitewashed Leaf Jackie graded by SGC.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4141
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:05 PM
SMPEP SMPEP is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 880
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve B View Post
But they aren't paying on the guarantee. They've successfully deflected the responsibility back on the sellers, reducing their liability.

For example, card graded A =200 graded 5= 1000 graded 6= 2000

Instead of paying the owner 1800 for a card altered from a 5 to a 6, they have them return it, and maybe pay the scammer 800. Unless they have some excuse to not pay the seller, perhaps referring them back up the chain to whoever altered it who they probably don't have to pay.

Brilliant, but scummy.
And there's a very simple solution - stop buying graded cards. Period. Full stop. Never buy another graded card in your life. And you will solve this problem.

But no one will do that.

So PSA, Moser and PWCC will win.
__________________
__________________
Looking for 1923 W572 Walt Barbare and Pat Duncan.
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 07-13-2019, 12:10 AM
Stonepony's Avatar
Stonepony Stonepony is offline
Dave_Berg
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: STL
Posts: 1,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
And there's a very simple solution - stop buying graded cards. Period. Full stop. Never buy another graded card in your life. And you will solve this problem.

But no one will do that.

So PSA, Moser and PWCC will win.
I understand the sentiment, but the statement that card alterations would disappear if we stopped buying graded cards- is wishful thinking at best.

Last edited by Stonepony; 07-13-2019 at 12:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old 07-13-2019, 02:55 AM
Paul S Paul S is offline
P. Sp.ec.tor
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Landlocked by High Toll Fees
Posts: 2,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
You know what's really interesting (for me, anyway)? I like that card better as a 1 Poor. Has more character. The doctoring really sucked the life out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 07-13-2019, 05:58 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
And there's a very simple solution - stop buying graded cards. Period. Full stop. Never buy another graded card in your life. And you will solve this problem.

But no one will do that.

So PSA, Moser and PWCC will win.
That’s correct and you and I both know this will never happen....people are gonna have to accept the fact the industry is loaded with fraud and manipulation or move on and find a new hobby to be passionate about it’s sad.....to many people are making money so they keep hush....
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:49 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Class action suit will follow...
Oh a civil lawsuit?
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:50 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepony View Post
I understand the sentiment, but the statement that card alterations would disappear if we stopped buying graded cards- is wishful thinking at best.
It will go down drastically as the easy money incentive with disappear.
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 07-13-2019, 06:53 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Mercy another whitewashed Leaf Jackie graded by SGC.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4141
another on the 5k or more profit list.
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 07-13-2019, 12:23 PM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is online now
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,363
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonepony View Post
I understand the sentiment, but the statement that card alterations would disappear if we stopped buying graded cards- is wishful thinking at best.
True- alterations will never disappear, but would definitely be lessened to a large degree. The risk/reward payoff for card doctors and corrupt dealers would take a giant hit. The reason that Moser and others are doing this in such huge volume, is attributed to the huge paybacks they receive for a single numerical bump. Without the grading insanity, their ROI would be a fraction of what they are currently getting by manipulating the TPGs.

In addition, collectors would pay a hell of a lot less for any mistakes made than they're paying now. The current situation is simply "minting" tons of money for Doctors, Dealers and the TPGs. Perhaps it's time that the balance of power shifted away from them, and back to the collector.
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 07-13-2019, 05:27 PM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 6,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
And there's a very simple solution - stop buying graded cards. Period. Full stop. Never buy another graded card in your life. And you will solve this problem.

But no one will do that.

So PSA, Moser and PWCC will win.
I've bought very few. probably under 20. I have sent some to SGC to be graded, but not for a while.
Reply With Quote
  #338  
Old 07-13-2019, 05:45 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default Cleaned T206 SGC Young in current PWCC

Grade unchanged, but apparent stain removal, same National submission as cards previously identified as cleaned, a Leaf Jackie and a CJ Joe Jackson.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1306000
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #339  
Old 07-18-2019, 04:48 AM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default Leaf Ted Williams trimmed

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=4277
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 07-19-2019, 10:35 AM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by perezfan View Post
True- alterations will never disappear, but would definitely be lessened to a large degree. The risk/reward payoff for card doctors and corrupt dealers would take a giant hit. The reason that Moser and others are doing this in such huge volume, is attributed to the huge paybacks they receive for a single numerical bump. Without the grading insanity, their ROI would be a fraction of what they are currently getting by manipulating the TPGs.

In addition, collectors would pay a hell of a lot less for any mistakes made than they're paying now. The current situation is simply "minting" tons of money for Doctors, Dealers and the TPGs. Perhaps it's time that the balance of power shifted away from them, and back to the collector.
Very very well said.....I’m in full agreement 😊
Reply With Quote
  #341  
Old 07-19-2019, 11:14 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
T3d $h3rm@n
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 5,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
Very very well said.....I’m in full agreement 😊

They are even doing it on cheap cards and making $50!

Maybe those were a swing and a miss, but doubtful any card that could be conserved wasnt
__________________
"Trolling Ebay right now" ©

NEED THE FOLLOWING 1952 topps

G TO VG-EX

(TONS TO TRADE, HIGHS LOWS, VARIATIONS, ERRORS)


322 RANDY JACKSON
329 IVAN DELOCK
343 DICK GERNERT
347 JOE ADCOCK
351 AL DARK
354 FRED HATFIELD
357 SMOKY BURGESS
360 GEORGE CROWE
Reply With Quote
  #342  
Old 07-21-2019, 11:28 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
K@t Alex@nder
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 209
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMPEP View Post
And there's a very simple solution - stop buying graded cards. Period. Full stop. Never buy another graded card in your life. And you will solve this problem.

But no one will do that.

So PSA, Moser and PWCC will win.
That's a naive take in my opinion. Everything isn't just black and white. There's an in-between. What about those of us who were new to collecting and paid the money to preserve and grade our legitimate cards only to get 1's and 2's because we had no clue this stuff was going on?

Personally, I was new to all of this in the last decade. Here's a bit of a glimpse to the other side. I'm sure we're not the only people with this experience. My dad and I had a growing collection and when trying to navigate what to do with our cards we saw "oh wow PWCC/Probstein/Novella have the same cards as us, they're crappy looking but got a 7 or 8 and sold for ridiculous amounts, surely our cards will get a better grade!" We learned the hard way, especially with PSA. It didn't matter what our cards looked like. Because we were submitting a mere 10 at a time no way in hell were we getting grades like those submitting 100 cards at a time. That's why we switched to SGC.

At the end of the day there are many people out there like me who had their unaltered cards graded completely unaware of what was going on behind the scenes. Some of us actually have legit graded cards. They're not all involved in this mess. Don't hate on those of us who have followed the rules and stayed true to our hobby.
Reply With Quote
  #343  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:56 AM
perezfan's Avatar
perezfan perezfan is online now
M@RK ST€!NBERG
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,363
Default

There's still a ton of information that has yet to come out before we know how deep this really goes. This is just the infancy stage. Some rather interesting new quotes, and damning implications pertaining to the TPGs on pages 177 and 178 of the Blowout Mantle/PWCC thread.

Link...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=177
Reply With Quote
  #344  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:10 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

N300 Anson, from an A to a 5. Jeez.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=182
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #345  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:12 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
N300 Anson, from an A to a 5. Jeez.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=182
Wow that’s bad real bad.....PSA is striking out big time.....
Reply With Quote
  #346  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:20 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny630 View Post
Wow that’s bad real bad.....PSA is striking out big time.....
Add one to the refund line.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #347  
Old 07-23-2019, 03:22 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 20,247
Default

Card looked trimmed to begin with not sure how it got into a holder the second time whether or not it was recolored or just cleaned.
__________________
Stuff trumps all. Even tainted stuff.

"...we don't believe that there is anything of a material nature for our company to be concerned with." -- Joseph J. Orlando
Reply With Quote
  #348  
Old 07-23-2019, 03:59 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/mysetregistry/set/348387
Posts: 5,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Add one to the refund line.
Can wait 6 months or more, afterall what choice does he have...

doesnt even make the 5k or more list..
Reply With Quote
  #349  
Old 07-23-2019, 04:09 PM
kateighty kateighty is offline
K@t Alex@nder
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: DC
Posts: 209
Default

Wowzers. Thanks Mark for the specific pages. Also, I vividly remember that Anson (both times) and checking back here on N54 to see if anyone was calling it out. Something certainly seemed fishy to me at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #350  
Old 07-23-2019, 06:15 PM
Johnny630 Johnny630 is offline
Johnny MaZilli
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 2,171
Default

Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Card looked trimmed to begin with not sure how it got into a holder the second time whether or not it was recolored or just cleaned.
Agree.....Peter.

So many bad bad cards in holders with grades.

I’m not giving PWCC or the Doctors a pass by any stretch however......

My question is will PSA lose it’s credibility in the industry ??

How can any auction houses Or dealer have confidence selling/auctioning cards in PSA holders that were not submitted by themselves??

I have a feeling this years national is gonna be scary for many dealers...idk

Last edited by Johnny630; 07-23-2019 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Potentially fake D350-3 Standard Biscuit backed cards on eBay rhettyeakley Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 41 06-11-2020 10:47 AM
Fake Signed T206 Cards (Too Many to List in the Title, See First Post for List) SetBuilder Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1057 12-24-2019 11:55 AM
Am I Potentially Getting Scammed? Paypal Orioles1954 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 03-20-2018 05:39 PM
How it feels to FINALLY cross your most-wanted card off your list..... Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 09-29-2007 11:15 AM
Potentially Dumb JSA/SGC Question Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 10-15-2006 06:42 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:01 AM.


ebay GSB