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Old 12-12-2017, 12:27 PM
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Default (First?) Openly gay MLB umpire retires

The concussion part aside, I was surprised that this flew under the radar when he came out....or maybe it didn't and it just slipped past me. I understand if he didn't want it to, but once out, usually stories like this find a way to leak.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ind...t_retires.html
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:24 PM
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I think its fantastic that if flew under the radar and no one made a big deal out of him being gay. I never heard about it and obviously the players nor his fellow umpires had any issue, which is how it should be.

Maybe there is hope after all.
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Old 12-12-2017, 03:16 PM
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I think its fantastic that if flew under the radar and no one made a big deal out of him being gay.
Agreed...it just usually doesn't work that way which is why I was surprised.
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Old 12-12-2017, 04:24 PM
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For me, this is a "so what" deal? Like a smelly fart in a crowded elevator: Today, it occurs more than you might think. Happy for him and his partner. While it may be an encouraging sign of the shift in attitudes, unfortunately there are still far too many troglodytes and bigoted bone brains who will see this as another indicator of the end of civilization as we know it, light their torches and march in stupid and futile protest.
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:05 PM
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Yeah, it will be a better world when all these stories fly under the radar screen. If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever. I can't understand it. Glad he's enjoying his retirement.

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Old 12-13-2017, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Snapolit1 View Post
Yeah, it will be a better world when all these stories fly under the radar screen. If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever. I can't understand it. Glad he's enjoying his retirement.
...though I also think stories like this getting out there help inspire others to come forward. They're two very compelling sides to the coin.
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Old 12-13-2017, 02:55 PM
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Sports has always been dominated by macho crap and every sport is still full of bigots. Stories like these should be told and told often so that the bigots begin to be outnumbered. Dismissing it as non-news is a nice sentiment but unfortunately is not reflective of the society we're still plagued by.

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Old 12-13-2017, 03:18 PM
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...though I also think stories like this getting out there help inspire others to come forward. They're two very compelling sides to the coin.
Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 12-13-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:04 PM
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Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.
Amen.

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Originally Posted by packs View Post
Sports has always been dominated by macho crap and every sport is still full of bigots. Stories like these should be told and told often so that the bigots begin to be outnumbered. Dismissing it as non-news is a nice sentiment but unfortunately is not reflective of the society we're still plagued by.
I'm not one to stir the pot usually, but it does make you wonder if MLB or another entity suppressed it. It just seems like too low hanging of fruit to not get picked by the media.

Edited to add: I'll be dammed
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/0...ut-as-gay.html
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:46 PM
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Yes, totally agree. Didn't mean to suggest it's not important to publicize. But I feel pretty hopeful that in the next generation of people growing up it will be a 100% complete non-issue.
Prejudice is one of those things that seems to very successfully pass down from generation to generation, as Rodgers and Hammerstein so brilliantly expressed in their song in South Pacific. But we can hope.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:56 PM
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When I was in high school, mocking gay stuff was de riguer. The way to insult another guy. If there was even a vague hint of anything legitimately gay people pounced. Terrible.

My boys are 21 and 18. They have had gay friends since they were in their early teens. It means nothing to them. I think the world has changed. I really do. 40 years ago a black man wanted to walk down the street holding a white girl's hand and heads turned. Or worse. The world changes. You wouldn't know it from reading the news headlines but I really think we are are heading in the right direction on acceptance.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 12-13-2017 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:09 AM
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I think we are too. But this kind of hate is pervasive. People might not even actually hate someone for their sexuality, but the thoughts are so ingrained that when it comes time to insult someone, like you said, it's the first thing that comes to mind. Look at Kevin Pillar last year. He was suspended 2 games for what he said to Jason Motte. Pillar said it's not a word he ever uses, but when it came time to insult someone it was the word that came out of his mouth.

Last edited by packs; 12-14-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:10 AM
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It's just not news any longer. I have my own beliefs but whatever others do in their personal life, I don't honestly care, as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I am married to a woman and have been for almost 23 yrs. It's not news either. Actually what I don't like is having all of the gay or anti-gay crap always thrown at me. As the Beatles sang, Let it Be.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:46 AM
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If you are still losing sleep about what other people do in their bedroom well, whatever.
I don't lose sleep over it and whatever people do in their own bedroom is definitely their own business, but I am sick and tired of having it all shoved down my throat. Why does the article even mention it? Why do I need to know what his sexual orientation is?

Here is another article about 4 MLB umpires retiring. Nowhere does it mention what their sexual orientation is. Is it relevant to the article? Does the reader care?

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/02/21/...-have-retired/

I'm tired of seeing rainbow bumper stickers on the back of cars, rainbow flags, gay parades, etc.. I'm heterosexual, but I don't go out of my way to make it known to people. There is no bumper sticker on the back of my truck announcing it. I don't participate in parades celebrating my heterosexuality.

As Leon said, it's just not news anymore. The world doesn't need to know your sexual preference. Keep it to yourself. If you need to announce it, you're just looking for attention.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:52 AM
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Sexual orientation does still matter to a large part of the population. It's not something that is just glossed over in daily life. The Supreme Court neglected to rule on protections for LGBT employees 2 days ago. People use the bumper stickers to show pride in something that has been shunned for the majority of history. It's totally understandable why someone would be proud to be who they are without having to hide it in a world that reinforces secrecy.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:26 PM
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People use the bumper stickers to show pride in something that has been shunned for the majority of history.
Fill in the blank were shunned for a majority of history in this country too, but I don't see them with bumper stickers on the back of their cars to show their pride.

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Old 12-14-2017, 12:56 PM
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Why would that preclude someone else from having one? Im not seeing the connection.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:02 PM
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Why would that preclude someone else from having one? Im not seeing the connection.
Let me approach this from a different angle. Why does the article have to mention his sexual preference? How is that relevant to his retirement whatsoever? Why does the reader need this information? If it matters, why didn't the other article that I linked include the umpires sexual preference?

It's useless garbage, poor journalism and you know it and just don't want to admit it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:11 PM
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I already said why it's important to have stories like this one in my previous posts.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:16 PM
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And I already said ones sexual preference doesn't matter and they should keep it to themselves in one of my previous posts.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:17 PM
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And I already said ones sexual preference doesn't matter and they should keep it to themselves in one of my previous posts.
But that's your opinion about yourself. I'm talking about the world at large, where preferences do still matter.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:22 PM
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No, I'm pretty sure the majority of the world doesn't care about others sexual preference. I don't know anybody - friend, neighbor, co-worker, relative, associate, celebrity, other - that I care to know their sexual preference.

The fact that you do care to know about others sexual preferences is actually quite disturbing. But that's just my opinion. Then again, I have other things to concern myself with.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:24 PM
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The Alabama race featured a candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal. He was running for a seat in the Senate.

Last edited by packs; 12-14-2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:32 PM
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I care that people are able to express themselves and be who they are, and are able to put that person on full display any way they choose. The Alabama race featured a candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal. He was running for a seat in the Senate.
Let me get this right. You "care that people are able to express themselves and be who they are", but the candidate who said homosexuality should be illegal can't express himself/herself (I'm not familiar with the candidate or the story) if that's who they truly are? So people are only allowed to express themselves when it correlates with your own beliefs? I gotcha now. Spoken like a true liberal.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:32 PM
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Nice edit.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:33 PM
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He had every right to voice his opinions. When did I say he didn't?
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:35 PM
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The fact that you do care to know about others sexual preferences is actually quite disturbing. But that's just my opinion.
Identity politics is EVERYTHING to them.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:40 PM
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He had every right to voice his opinions. When did I say he didn't?
Your post inferred that he didn't - that you were criticizing him for his point of view. If that's not the case, why did you even bring him up? That's also why you edited the first part of your post - you re-read your post and realized what a ridiculous thing you said and removed it. Again, nice edit.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:40 PM
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Your post inferred that he didn't - that you were criticizing him for his point of view. If that's not the case, why did you even bring him up? That's also why you edited the first part of your post - you re-read your post and realized what a ridiculous thing you said and removed it. Again, nice edit.
Oh okay, I think I understand where the confusion lies. You had said that the issue of sexuality wasn't important to the majority of the world. I brought up the race and a candidate to show that it is an issue important enough that a candidate for Senate would make it part of his platform, only to demonstrate that it is still an issue.

Last edited by packs; 12-14-2017 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:12 PM
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Is it relevant to the article? Does the reader care?
I actually asked myself the same thing while reading it. The short to these two questions is 1) No and 2) This reader did. While not permanent to his retirement, had it not been in the article, I would have never known that an openly gay man had umpired 3 World Series', which I, personally, think is important for as many baseball fans as possible to know.
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:46 PM
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Based on my observations and interactions, anyone who thinks most of the world is now tolerant or indifferent is wrong. Yes, it's probably better than it used to be, but we're nowhere near a world or even a country where it's a non-issue.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:49 PM
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had it not been in the article, I would have never known that an openly gay man had umpired 3 World Series', which I, personally, think is important for as many baseball fans as possible to know.
I don't understand this. As a baseball fan, why do you feel it important for me (and others) to know that?

I would guess the majority of baseball fans don't give a crap, let alone think it's important.
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:53 PM
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Based on my observations and interactions, anyone who thinks most of the world is now tolerant or indifferent is wrong. Yes, it's probably better than it used to be, but we're nowhere near a world or even a country where it's a non-issue.
Yea I have to agree. There are still plenty of racists, bigots, and ignorant people out there. An mlb umpire being openly gay shouldn't be an issue, but for many it is. And for anyone who doesn't think it is wait until an active player comes out. Especially if he's a star.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:02 PM
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And for anyone who doesn't think it is wait until an active player comes out. Especially if he's a star.
You're about four decades late on that one.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:19 PM
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You're about four decades late on that one.
I mean publicly. I was under the impression Burke's teammates knew, but the media didn't while he was playing. It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:38 PM
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It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.
Without doubt. He would be the Jackie Robinson of the gays.

I can't believe I just typed that....though I'm trademarking it right now!
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:38 PM
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I mean publicly. I was under the impression Burke's teammates knew, but the media didn't while he was playing. It would be a huge story today if an active player came out.
His teammates definitely knew (both with the Dodgers and A's), so I think the media had to know. Either way, he was open about it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 11:41 PM
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His teammates definitely knew (both with the Dodgers and A's), so I think the media had to know. Either way, he was open about it.
And Burke would be the Jimmy Claxton!
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