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  #1  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:14 PM
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Posted By: Jimi

I thought he'd pitch until he was 50, so I was shocked when I learned today that he is retiring. One has to wonder, would you put him in as one of the top 5 pitchers of all time? 3.18 ERA, I believe with 355 wins in the steroids era?

Deep down, even though I'm not a huge Braves fan, I thought it would have been awesome to have seen Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux retire the same year so they could be inducted into the Hall together. (Now, whether you believe all three deserve it or not is one thing...this I know.) happy.gif

[linked image]

I distinctly remember asking my dad in the 80s who he thought was better, Mike Maddux or his brother Greg? happy.gif

Jimi

Always looking for T222 Fatimas!

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  #2  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:52 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

He had a full season 1.56 ERA in 1994, and it ballooned the next year to 1.63! 1.56 is astonishing for a starting pitcher. He slowed down when he got older but that's natural. The poetic justice is that he retired with one more win then Clemens.

I would rank him him as easily a top 10, perhaps top 5.

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  #3  
Old 12-05-2008, 08:58 PM
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Posted By: Brian T.

You can say all you want about the overgenerous strike zone, but he is an absolute lock for the HOF. His defense prowess alone almost qualifies him and is also an often under-discussed part of his game. Obviously, it wasn't overlooked though - given the number of gold gloves he won (18 if memory serves). Full disclosure: I am not a Braves fan, nor would I collect the baseball cards of any modern day pitcher... but if I did, it would be him.

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  #4  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:24 PM
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Posted By: Frank L.

I believe he will definitely be inducted. I am a Braves Fan(dating back to late 1960's when I lived in West Palm Beach, Fla as a kid). Even through the tough 70's, kept up the Braves fandom. Phil Niekro, Mike Lum, Buzz Capra, then 80's with Bob Hoerner, Dale Murphy. They finally made it big in 1990's with the pitchers you mentioned.
He is a great pitcher. Sorry to see him retire, if he really does soon.
Thanks.

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  #5  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:42 PM
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Posted By: Rhys

I would argue that had Maddux pitched 100 years ago, he would have won 500 games or more. He is very durable and his numbers statistically (I mean with standard deviations and stuff) would have made him a 500 game winner over a similar length career had he pitched in the days of a 3 man rotation like the deadball guys.

Often times we talk about guys in the 19th century like Bill Dahlen for example who were Hall of Famers but the numbers are not there due to shorter seasons. Maddux is hurt by the era he played in. In my opinion, he is the second or third best pitcher who ever lived, way better than Mathewson and others similar to him. Probably the only two I can think of I would rank ahead of him all time keeping with the perspective I mentioned earlier, are Walter Johnson and Lefty Grove (who was hurt by years and years in the minors where he averaged about 30 wins a year because his club would not release him).

To even argue whether he is a first ballot Hall of Famer is silly, players like him are the reason the Hall of Fame was built!

Rhys

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  #6  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:50 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

Obviously, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. A better debate might be if he'll be the first to get in with 100% of the vote.

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  #7  
Old 12-05-2008, 09:58 PM
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Posted By: joe

I am a Detroit fan, but this is one great pitcher.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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  #8  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:00 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

If Hank Aaron can't get 100% nobody will.

I'd like to see Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all go in the same year...are the other two retiring?

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  #9  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:03 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

The vote percentage is part happenstance-- who is on the ballot, who is voting, etc. I believe the top vote getters ever were Seaver and Ripken. Fine and deserving HOFers, but no one's argued they were the best two players ever.

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  #10  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:20 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Any voter who doesn't put Maddux on their ballot in his first year of eligibility should not be allowed to vote for the Hall of Fame.

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  #11  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:25 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

Even if the voter is Jesus?

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  #12  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:30 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Even if the voter is Ivan DeJesus.

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  #13  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:37 PM
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Posted By: davidcycleback

You could have also said Jesus Alou.

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  #14  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:38 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Too obvious.

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  #15  
Old 12-05-2008, 10:57 PM
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Posted By: J Levine

I am a big Phillies fan but I would always follow Maddux...one of my baseball highlights was watching him pitch at Dodger Stadium and then running into him in the front office after the game...total gentleman and a great pitcher.

Joshua

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  #16  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:18 AM
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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

IMO, Maddux was the best pitcher of his era. He dominated for a good stretch and was simply the best spot pitcher I ever saw. There are too many greats before him to put him in the top 5 but I don't think top 10 of all time is a stretch!

marty

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  #17  
Old 12-06-2008, 01:00 PM
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Posted By: Ricky Y

As a SF Giants fan...I thank him for retiring..this gives us a chance to at least win 5 or 6 more games per year..he could beat the Giants just by standing on the mound and not throwing a pitch.. happy.gif

He's a future HOF no doubt...its amazing the movement he can get on that ball..down and in/out and on the corners..

Ricky Y

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  #18  
Old 12-06-2008, 01:04 PM
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Posted By: Dave F



Only 32 here, but living in Atlanta Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz were a trio that probably won't be produced here again. Maddux was the best of the three though by far. Hopefully he decides to go into the hall as a Brave. happy.gif

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  #19  
Old 12-06-2008, 04:35 PM
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Posted By: Andrew S.

Maddux and Glavine are shoe-ins, but Smoltz won't see the Hall. Not an impressive enough record.

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  #20  
Old 12-06-2008, 04:48 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Smoltz is a LOCK for the hall of fame.

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  #21  
Old 12-06-2008, 04:55 PM
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Posted By: Andrew S.

Dan, why is he a lock? Because of his World Series appearances?

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  #22  
Old 12-06-2008, 05:03 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

210 wins, 154 saves, 3000+ strikeouts.

His Hall of Fame monitor number is 167...anything greater than 100 is considered Hall of Fame worthy...anything higher than 130 is considered a cinch for election.

Smoltz by all accounts is a good guy...who I think has even won the Clemente Award.

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  #23  
Old 12-06-2008, 05:37 PM
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Posted By: S Gross

Speaking of him like an vintage pitcher, I agree.

One of my favorite game reports was back in 2000 (I bebieve) when he won a complete game on less than 80 pitches, and the game was well under 2 hours.

........ old time baseball happy.gif

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  #24  
Old 12-06-2008, 05:41 PM
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Posted By: Rob L

Maddux was awesome with the stats to back it up. Where would all rank Randy Johnson? The "Ks" are tremendous and he will make or pass 300 wins this year.

Rob L

http://www.freewebs.com/loefflerrd/

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  #25  
Old 12-06-2008, 05:50 PM
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Posted By: jdrum

Count me among those who think he's a lock as well.
Great guy too.

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  #26  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:19 PM
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Posted By: Dave F



Being in Atlanta i'm sure i'm partial, but I believe Smoltz should be easily in. Not to mention that fact I think he is probably one of the top five greatest postseason pitchers of all time.


And if anyone wants to answer the previous question...does Maddux go in as a Brave?

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  #27  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:25 PM
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Posted By: Richie

Dave, Why wont he not go in as a Atlanta Brave. All his success came as a Brave. I am not sure amount of years. But has to be 80% of his career he was in Brave uniform. Definite Brave.

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  #28  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:25 PM
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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I think there's no doubt Maddux will go in as a Brave.

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  #29  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:30 PM
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Posted By: Anonymous



The Atlanta Braves had FIVE sure Hall Of Fame candidates in their dugout at the same time (Glavine, Maddox, Smoltz, Chipper Jones, Bobby Cox). Time will tell if Andruw Jones ever raises that number to six although I doubt it.

I'm not sure there are many teams that could match that. Are there?

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  #30  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:49 PM
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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

The 1932 Yankees had 10 HOFers on their roster......

Ruth
Gehrig
Dickey
Combs
Lazzeri
Ruffing
Gomez
Pennock
Sewell
McCarthy

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