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  #1  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:43 PM
danmckee danmckee is offline
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Default Sir Shill gets amazing prices :)

Sir Shill has bidders that bid 88% of the time with him.

Original art? this item is worth about $25 to a serious collector

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H813-4-Bosto...p2047675.l2557


Why ebay allows the constant shill bidding is beyond me. He supposedly gets record prices for recently painted junk.
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2012, 06:51 PM
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I must admit to not knowing much aboult Helmar. I usualy filter them out. Does anyone around collect them? They do seem to go for "real" money most times.
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2012, 07:11 PM
Rob D. Rob D. is offline
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Man, if the TPGs would slab these, what an opportunity to buy raw then flip.

On the bright side: At least the seller doesn't end auctions early.

Last edited by Rob D.; 10-10-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-11-2012, 06:49 AM
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I've never seen that sort of card before- am familiar with Boston Garter though. Is this card a modern-day ripoff of the BG series? I haven't had any coffee yet, so maybe this is obvious, but what the hell are they and who is Helmar?
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  #5  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:07 AM
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I know a number of collectors who enjoy the Helmar items and collect them as an adjunct to their vintage collections, especially the player collectors.
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  #6  
Old 10-11-2012, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danmckee View Post
Sir Shill has bidders that bid 88% of the time with him.

Original art? this item is worth about $25 to a serious collector

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H813-4-Bosto...p2047675.l2557


Why ebay allows the constant shill bidding is beyond me. He supposedly gets record prices for recently painted junk.
The top 3 bidders all have well over 500 feedback and none of them have more than 16% bids with this seller....the under bidder has 11%. How can you tell this is shilling, just curious?

As for the cards, to each their own. I wouldn't pay that much for them but they are really nice looking. I am thinking about $10-$20 would be my threshold IF I collected something like that. But it seems that quite a few others will pay 10x that for them.
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Last edited by Leon; 10-11-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:01 AM
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I really like a lot of these cards too...but can't see spending more than the price of new packs for them?!
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
I really like a lot of these cards too...but can't see spending more than the price of new packs for them?!
I agree, if the pack price is still the nickel it was the last time I bought a pack....... Seriously, I have never seen a Helmar in person but the artwork doesn't suck. I am just not willing to spend that kind of money to see if I get the warm fuzzies holding it in my hand.
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2012, 08:20 AM
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i agree with leon they are really nice looking ,prices are crazy .but to each his own,,,ill be honest ive been outbid on the garters i really like them and the artwork is amazing
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:01 AM
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I'll confess I bought some of the L1 looking Leathers for $20-$40 range. They are FANTASTIC pieces of artwork and not meant to deceive I don't think. I don't feel like I was shilled but I didn't bid that much on them. They are about 80% the size of a true L1 leather and about 4x as thick. I've not seen or touched any of the 33 Goudey-like cards but his choice of subjects is brilliant. Tons of Negro Leaguers, House of David guys and guys who couldn't have been in 33 Goudey......Clemente, Mantle, Maris, 19th century guys, etc. At the end of the day, when you add it up, he's pocketing $6-$10K per month off doing these. Pretty good numbers. Will they ever hold up for RESALE? Doubt it. But, as someone said above, for the player collectors, they are fantastic pieces of artwork. I'd be nervous paying $250 for a Boston Garter-like card, that's for sure. But.....to someone who collects $5-$50K Boston Garters, picking up another one for that collection for $250 is probably chump change (maybe in more ways than one, huh?). The seller is a very nice guy who has come on here a number of times defending himself. I also know the original poster as a very nice guy who has strong feelings about stuff. The seller does a great job of ensuring people know they are not period pieces.....with the bidding percentages Leon describes, I don't see a lot of shilling........my personal opinion........

Last edited by autograf; 10-11-2012 at 09:02 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:35 AM
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I don't own any, but do like the artwork.

I do think it is funny that collectors will pay more for the cards produced than the original art:

Babe ruth card: $324

Babe Ruth original art: $224.72
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:37 AM
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They are indeed gorgeous cards that as depict the "what if" factor. Loved seeing some of the Joe Jackson/Cobb T202's, and the Goudey's are great, loved the Josh Gibson pieces, and some more of the obscure players. But would I buy any? Probably not. If so, maybe for around the $20 range.
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocabirdman View Post
I agree, if the pack price is still the nickel it was the last time I bought a pack....... Seriously,

The last nickel pack I bought cost me $425.00.


*(edited to add)* I've owned a couple pieces of the original art work for the bigger Helmar T3 style cards and while it was nice it just didn't hold my attention and I sold them a year or so later. To me the biggest factor with the pieces I owned was the quality of the original art, very loose/sloppy/amateurish in places. I understand that art is art and not everyone will like everything but the two pieces I owned just didn't look as good in hand as when I bought them at auction. The art work on the smaller Goudey style cards is much better in my opinion but they are completely different artists than the T3 art work.

Last edited by LEHR; 10-11-2012 at 10:31 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2012, 10:31 AM
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[QUOTE=LEHR;1043615]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bocabirdman View Post
I agree, if the pack price is still the nickel it was the last time I bought a pack....... Seriously, QUOTE]


The last nickel pack I bought cost me $425.00.


*(edited to add)* I've owned a couple pieces of the original art work for the bigger Helmar T3 style cards and while it was nice it just didn't hold my attention and I sold them a year or so later. To me the biggest factor with the pieces I owned was the quality of the original art, very loose/sloppy/amateurish in places. I understand that art is art and not everyone will like everything but the two pieces I owned just didn't look as good in hand as when I bought them at auction. The art work on the smaller Goudey style cards is much better in my opinion but they are completely different artists than the T3 art work.
The last nickel I bought....oops....I mis-read......
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2012, 11:56 AM
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Doesn't look like a shill to me.

Some ridiculous prices for sure, but no more so then modern chase cards, and I like these a lot better.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:44 PM
t206blogcom t206blogcom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Bergin View Post
Doesn't look like a shill to me.
+1
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2012, 05:12 PM
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Collect what you want, but they definitely shouldn't be listed in the pre-WWII section, and can/should be reported under listing practices as search and browse manipulation (not like ebay will ever do anything about it ).

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ipulation.html

Personally I think they are junk and can't see why anyone would spend that much on them, but that's how I feel about most new cards.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2012, 02:41 AM
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When I first read the title to this thread I though it was another Probstein123 thread. Smh lol

As far as the Helmars they are some really neat fantasy pieces and well done also.
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  #19  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:03 AM
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Default I think

These people are being foolish for the most part in buying these things. No different to me than borders just a little higher quality. Seems like unlicensed crap to me.
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  #20  
Old 10-13-2012, 08:07 AM
Sean1125 Sean1125 is offline
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Appreciate the art, there are others who can. This is like someone collecting art rather than cards - how much would you pay for a hand painted card of your favorite player(s)? I had Stephen Burkett do a Yankees set for me a couple years ago, I think I paid him $10/card before he raised his prices - all original art... I sold the set later for triple what I paid for it at a card show. I honestly thought about having him do more pieces for me because they have such eye appeal as a whole. Personally I wouldn't buy them, I think the prices are ridiculous, and I wouldn't pay over a couple bucks for any of them unless it was someone/something I really wanted.

Also, maybe these people think in 100 years these cards will be "obscure" like some issues today ... Who knows...

My thoughts,

Sean
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  #21  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:39 AM
dabigyankeeman dabigyankeeman is offline
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I really like a lot of the Goudey-sized Helmar cards, but i would never buy one at the insane prices they are getting.

$10-$15 max, and even going to $15 would bother me.
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  #22  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
I don't own any, but do like the artwork.

I do think it is funny that collectors will pay more for the cards produced than the original art:

Babe ruth card: $324

Babe Ruth original art: $224.72
+1. That truly is bizarre.
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  #23  
Old 10-13-2012, 10:16 PM
camlov2 camlov2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glynparson View Post
These people are being foolish for the most part in buying these things.
This is likely to be heard from a random citizen to someone buying any old piece of cardboard.
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  #24  
Old 10-15-2012, 05:53 AM
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Default There is a proven track record

On vintage cards not so on this garbage.
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  #25  
Old 10-15-2012, 01:52 PM
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What I see are people who really enjoy these cards for their abstract view of baseball art. I see no signs of shill bidding... thus would never say something of the nature!

NiCe honest nitch... What America is all about!

However, if you're a purest at heart, I can see why they wouldn't appeal to you.

I still find some of them Very Appealing, especially the Gibson's!
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2012, 06:57 AM
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I understand the complaints, but ...

"You will feel as if you are holding a vintage card in your hands."

Isn't "as if" important to any of you?
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  #27  
Old 10-17-2012, 05:12 PM
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I think this guy's cards are cool but he needs to STOP listing them as pre-war on eBay. It's really annoying.
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