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#1
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19th Century Memorabilia
Where has all the great 19th century memorabilia gone. Major auction houses used to regularly have more extensive offerings in this area. This is no longer the case. Other sources are also lacking. Since most 19th century collectors are generally holding on to what they have, does this just show how rare this stuff is?
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#2
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Gary, I too have been wondering. There are, of course, many factors involved, but it seems historical importance has declined substantially as a consideration for interest. Probably many reasons for this but there does not appear to be a basic knowledge of early baseball history pre Cobb. Many 19th century collectors are looking for historically important items, and, to be honest, the rarer and more unique the better. This rarity is not defined by a grade, but actual rarity of the item itself. While you and I may not fully understand the comparative price differentials between these items and cards etc, it is the essence of collecting. Let’s just hope that enough stuff starts to appear that we can all acquire an item of interest.
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#3
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Too many generations have past within the family's of those who were related to those who made the game 190 years ago. Their knowledge of what they may have had is now gone or they have been hounded by collectors for years and someone in the family allowed themselves to be taken.
Is there still a "find" out there? |
#4
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Very well said by all who have added thus far...I am still trying to figure out where the items and interest have gone. That said, for those of us passionate about the early game, I think we're as hungry as ever for pieces associated with it.
Perhaps we should all post our most recent 19th C. pick up...who knows, maybe it'll inspire others. Or, encourage all those guys needing funds to buy Mantle, Robinson, and Aaron cards to sell us their remaining 19th C. stuff! Here's my most recent...pick up from August of 2020. Jon www.dugoutteasures.com |
#5
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A significant number of the "great" 19th memorabilia items sold in the past turned out to be counterfeits. Really great genuine 19th baseball memorabilia has always been incredibly scarce, and people's perceptions as to the amount in circulation perhaps was skewed by including the fakes with the real items. Now that many of these fakes have been identified and removed from circulation, I would not be surprised if the continued relative dearth of great offerings will remain the rule going forward.
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#6
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As an antique hockey and baseball collector, there is very little reverence or respect for the history of either sport on a large scale by collectors - with this obviously more so with hockey. Sadly, this is the absolute truth.
While some on here will claim many care about the history and origin, most actually don't, with the proof in the valuation. When modern items produced five minutes ago with ZERO historical significance far outsell painstakingly rare and even unique antique items that fully illustrate the game and it's colourful history.... that says it all. As time continues to pass with a new generation of collectors.... this apathy will greatly increase. The bright side for the few lovers out there of the early game? The majority of 19th century baseball items will continue to drop in value, making new acquisitions much more achievable. |
#7
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There was a early photo - tintype collection auction over the summer that was outstanding. Photos come and go, some nice stuff out there when you see it!
Gloves, bats and other game type items are getting hard to find. I collect the guides and they have been hard to find in recent years. Jimmy
__________________
“Devoted to Bringing Quality Vintage Sports Cards and Memorabilia to the Hobby” https://www.ebay.com/str/jbsportsauctions |
#8
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Quote:
__________________
"Ty Cobb, Spikes Flying" Collecting Detroit 19th Century N172, N173, N175. N172 Detroit. Getzein, McGlone, Rooks, Wheelock, Gillligan, Kid Baldwin Error, Lady Baldwin, Conway, Deacon White Positive transactions with Joe G, Jay Miller, CTANK80, BIGFISH, MGHPRO, k. DIXON, LEON, INSIDETHEWRAPPER, GOCUBSGO32, Steve Suckow, RAINIER2004, Ben Yourg, GNAZ01, yanksrnice09, cmiz5290, Kris Sweckard (Kris19),Angyal, Chuck Tapia,Belfast1933,bcbgcbrcb,fusorcruiser, tsp06, cobbcobb13 |
#9
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Ever since the advent of eBay and on-line auctions (becoming prevalent around the year 2,000), much of the good stuff has found its way into collections. And because of the extreme rarity, most advanced collectors are hesitant to let their best pieces go. Same applies to me personally... I would much rather sell or consign a piece that has a chance of resurfacing some day. It's very difficult to part with ultra-rare items that have defied Father Time against all odds.... especially when in nice condition.
This phenomenon largely explains the dwindling number of 19th century offerings seen at auction. There are other factors as well, such as those mentioned previously in this thread. When 19th Century collectors start "aging out" and some of these items start to reappear in the marketplace, I'm confident prices will be quite strong. There will always be a demand for truly rare and landmark pieces that were instrumental in shaping the game. On the rare occasion something turns up these days (such as a Trophy Bat, Pillbox Hat, Lace-front Jersey, Workman's Glove, Thayer Mask, etc.) I seemingly always get outbid now. Back in the 1990s - early 2000s, I had a far better "wining percentage" on these antique items. There's simply more demand and far less supply these days. The recent escalation of card prices (especially for items that aren't even rare) has been beyond impressive. But sooner or later, that bubble will inevitably burst. Truly rare artifacts will realize a more steady and stable rise over time. That said, we may be in for a few more years of this dry spell. |
#10
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It seems like most of us have similar thoughts.
To go along with Jonathon’s suggestion I am posting my last pickup, a circa 1865 cdv of Archie Bush and James McClure. An expanded version of my Net 54 post on this was just published on John Thorn’s Our Game blog if anyone wants to learn more about Archie. |
#11
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I've read Bruce's article and it's well worth reading. The history of the game's early players is always of great interest.
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#12
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Thanks Gary.
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#13
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Great stuff! Bruce, nice haul. The stance on your first image reminds me of “The Pitcher” statue cdv.
https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc.../#&gid=1&pid=4 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#14
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George, thanks and yes, it does remind me of that. Good call.
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#15
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Item #1: Athletic Base Ball Club
Hello everyone,
I am new here so please excuse me if I take a misstep. I found this thread / site via searching the internet for 19th century baseball. The reason for my search is because of a box of papers I have which I refer to as the "Steele Box". The "Steele Box" is from around 1870's up through the early 1890's. The box once belonged to a person named "Charles Steele". In the box there were primarily papers, unfortunately not all of them are baseball related but some are. I see in this thread some folks are asking if there are anymore vintage baseball items to be found. I don't know if papers fall into that category but I can share some of what I have if you'd like. The papers in the box are sort of interconnected, meaning Charles Steele was a firefighter, banker, planned excursions, theatre buff. The box has a number of subjects within it like baseball letters, receipts, a few ledgers, a few checks, schedules and so on. Most of this is local NJ and NY teams from that timeframe. The reason I say that they are interconnected is because the baseball team Mr Steele was on was a team of firefighters that played ball back then. I did on ant to add one more things. I would like to learn more about what I have and early ball. I am also hoping folks here could help with that. Finding information out there on the internets is not easy as you must already know. Please let me know if you would like to see some images of what I have. Here is one example which may help you to decide.... Last edited by Mforder; 05-14-2021 at 11:29 AM. Reason: added title |
#16
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Quote:
Last edited by drcy; 05-14-2021 at 09:14 PM. |
#17
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David,
Thank you! It's a relief to have found the right place. I hope that the papers don't disappoint. It's nothing like the items folks have already posted. I cannot believe what I am seeing, it's a museum. The items are fascinating. Would it be more appropriate to create a separate thread specific to the box itself? This way it remains contained? Thank you for your help, ---Mark Last edited by Mforder; 05-14-2021 at 11:01 AM. |
#18
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By all means, show all you like.
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#19
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Will do. It will take time to create pics and all. I only have some digitized. Thank you.
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#20
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Item #2: Riverside A.C. on Railroad Mills Snuff letterhead
I guess any information on this would be appreciated. Knowing only that is more than I know now. If there is more please feel free to share.
Thank you, ---Mark Last edited by Mforder; 05-14-2021 at 11:26 AM. |
#21
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Yes, more images. I am also from New Jersey and have some reference books I can check out after seeing more images. Last year I picked up a group of letters that discussed local teams, but also had some college and pro stuff from the early 70’s. This is a good find and interesting to many of us. 19th century stuff great.
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