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  #1  
Old 08-04-2008, 03:42 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk

insult to injury is the fact that SGC reserves the right to assign a new grade to cards it re-slabs. I'm furious...


Yogi Berra Rookie Wrecked by SGC Holder

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  #2  
Old 08-04-2008, 03:44 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Matt

Kirk - contact Michael or Glyn at SGC, they may be willing to work with you.

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  #3  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:01 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Sean

I think if the card grades lower they pay you the difference in value.

Sean

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  #4  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:06 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk

^Which would be a slap in the face considering it was their holder that devalued the card. The whole thing just makes me sad.

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  #5  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:10 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: T206Collector

...to me, to a somewhat lesser extent, with an SGC 60 T206 Walter Johnson portrait. I was pretty upset by it. They reholdered the card for free to keep the pressure of the border, but two little indentations in the edge remained. "Fortunately" it was a 60 before and after, but I would be somewhat concerned with higher end material. I think it is a rare occurrence, but obviously it has happened a few times.



_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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  #6  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:20 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: John S

Ouch!

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  #7  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:33 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Paul

It has happened to me too on an expensive card, but I haven't contacted SGC about it. Same type marks as in the original post. It came back from SGC that way after grading, & must have happened when they shipped my submission.

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  #8  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:42 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Jeff S.

That Berra almost looks like it was dropped.

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  #9  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:54 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: quan

i've had a 2-3 cards where i felt the edge damage was caused after grading by the sgc holder. imo beckett holders are the best even if you don't agree with their grading.

edited to add the damaged cards were mostly oversized that normally wouldn't fit with the insert.

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  #10  
Old 08-04-2008, 04:56 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk Rothrum

"That Berra almost looks like it was dropped."

^Could be... I didn't drop it personally, but who knows, maybe the post office dropped it. In fact, I'd bet they did. As does every shipping carrier with every package they handle. Thats a good reason to have a card slabbed. To protect it from damage. This holder caused the damage.

"imo beckett holders are the best even if you don't agree with their grading."

I agree 100%. They're solidly built like a tank and the cards are kept from the edges nicely... I don't agree with their grading, and I don't love their look either, but yeah... Most protective holders in the business.

--
Edited to include my full name

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  #11  
Old 08-04-2008, 06:35 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Matt Bojorquez

This has happened to about five high-grade, valuable cards of mine. In all instances, the black insert was too tight and one of its' sharp corners cut into the edge of the card.

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  #12  
Old 08-04-2008, 06:50 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Steve

We summize PSA slabs (without the mylar back sheet) could produce the same dings, if dropped.

Nice Yogi!

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  #13  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:33 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk Rothrum

"We summize PSA slabs (without the mylar back sheet) could produce the same dings, if dropped."

In theory I suppose... Though I don't have any PSA cards with any damage that can be seen by the naked eye.

The thing is, if you look closely at the edges of the black cut out (in my pic), it's almost jagged. I'm not sure if they use a heat cutter of some sort or what, but the cut is not clean... It's rough, and has comprimised the card's value... This is the holder to protect a vaulable piece of history?

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  #14  
Old 08-04-2008, 08:34 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: E, Daniel

Not to run contra as I sympathize with your disquiet, but I don't think SGC or any other grader assures that a slabbed card will remain pristine forever or in exactly the same condition as when it was intombed.
Let's face it, UV will eventually wash out the colors and or tone the card, moisture/damp can work its way inside the holder, shiny stuff can 'stick' to the surfaces of the plastic, and yes edges and corners can get slightly bumped around. You're not buying pefect protection in perpetuity, you're buying larger peace of mind for general handling and display - AND the opinion of a third party to allow for trade and sale between collectors.
Just think, if that card remains out of a slab and gets taken in and out of plastic sleeves for handling or loose in a cardboard box for hoarding, how much greater is the wear and tear on the edges corners and surface? Well, they end up looking like so many other well-loved cards we call beaters and off grade cards we collected and enjoyed as kids, that's what!
To me, if you have to get a card under that kind of enlargement to show a slight rub/lift on an edge, one that you're not even sure wasn't the result of being dropped...you're worrying slightly too much! I've dropped too many cards and had them land on a corner as they hit the floor to have too much angst for your situation.
As long as that card is in that holder, it will sell for exactly what the sum positives and negatives it displays under the overall grade it shows. No more no less.


Daniel

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  #15  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:12 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk Rothrum


"I don't think SGC or any other grader assures that a slabbed card will remain pristine forever"

Maybe not, but it's a given that the encapsulation of the card should not damage the card.

"if you have to get a card under that kind of enlargement to show a slight rub/lift on an edge, one that you're not even sure wasn't the result of being dropped...you're worrying slightly too much!"

I don't think so. It's enlarged to show well at 72 dpi. It's easily seen by the naked eye with no jewelers loop. Hell, Both flaws caused by the holder are the length of 2 letters of the text underneath... Do you need to enlarge a card to read the back? And you're throwing the word slight around too much. The holder damaged the card... I think when a company is entrusted with encapsulating a piece of American history of which there is a finite number, they should be held to task when a practice or method is shown to be, in fact, damaging to an article. I understand, to you it's a Yogi Berra rookie, and not a huge investment. not to me.

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  #16  
Old 08-04-2008, 09:17 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Scott Levy

I have seen firsthand the damage that older versions of SGC slabs can (and have) done to T206 cards. I will leave it up to the board member who suffered extensive damage as to whether they would like to elaborate further.

Regards,
Scott

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  #17  
Old 08-04-2008, 10:11 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: E, Daniel

Hey Kirk, I love the card and whether it's high dollar or not really didn't guide my response...
As I said, I sympathize, I just don't think it's worth a whole lot of hand wringing. If you want to call SGC as has been suggested, I'll bet you'll get some pretty good customer service but obviously can never be made whole. I think when you're working with molds and plastics and cutting those plastics to custom fit cards of all sizes - you will inevitably get some out of many produced which aren't perfect.
Hundreds of thousands made, at $7-$10 a pop including the grading assignation, and you're not going to get an 'archival' tomb of the very highest order.
In fact, I've spent plenty a penny on Art being framed, and I assure you that when time comes to remove the pieces the impact of the ultra expensive framing will not be invisible. They're just clever enough to hide the effects out of view behind mats, frames and backing, and buyers of such pieces understand that paper artifacts/ephemera remaining in pristine condition after going through the framing process is simply unrealistic.

Daniel

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  #18  
Old 08-04-2008, 10:19 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: smtjoy

I have had cards damaged in both SGC and PSA holders, dont like it but it does happen. The big difference is wait till you try and get PSA to do anything about it, lol, SGC will do their best to take care of it.

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  #19  
Old 08-04-2008, 10:41 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Josh

I would like to be a little bird and hear what PSA says when you tell them you think their holder damaged your card. Ha that would be funny to hear.

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  #20  
Old 08-04-2008, 11:05 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk Rothrum

Look, I'm not saying PSA is better, or that SGC sucks... I'm just seriously sad.

The fact is, collectors in general have a mindset that's a potential pitfall: That a card's condition (and value) will be retained by having it encapsulated by a recognized grading company. The fact is, this card would still be in NM7 condition if it were never slabbed by SGC. I'm not sure what that fact has to do with how PSA would handle this. I'm no PSA cheerleader by a longshot... I'm simply a disappointed collector.

For the record, I'm not an SGC customer, so I don't see them compensating me in any way for this....

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  #21  
Old 08-04-2008, 11:46 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Todd Schultz

I am an SGC guy all the way, but I am extremely leery of slabbing anything high grade that has much value. They nicked a e254 Harry Hooper of mine, but it still got an 88 and that issue is SO thin I can see where the card could move around. They also nicked a Johnston's cookies Spahn of mine, which is not so thin. Since lately my tastes have centered on more mid-grade specimens, I'm less concerned, but I'm still hesitant to place my high grade stuff there, unless I'm ready to sell it and the slab means extra $$$.

I don't agree that this is acceptable because no card can be expected to remain pristine forever. Fact is if you can't get it back unharmed by the holder you cannot enjoy handling it--wondering whether the holder will take its toll. I do not understand why SGC doesn't use a softer foam rubber type gasket that has at least a minimum "give" and that is not likely to grind against the cardboard if prolonged contact can reasonably be expected.

Sorry about your card and I do not consider it a minor matter--still, I would expect SGC to address the situation to your satisfaction.

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  #22  
Old 08-04-2008, 11:56 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: ali_lapoint

slabbing a card should be a way of freezing the card in time. if it is not possible to create such a holder, then i really fail to see what the purpose of a holder is.

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  #23  
Old 08-11-2008, 04:01 PM
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Default Anyone have issues with SGC holder damaging cards?

Posted By: Kirk Rothrum

Thanks for all the comments!

I feel that since I've posted my complaint about this publicly, it's only fair to post an update...

I took a couple peoples advice and contacted SGC. I wasn't sure what to expect, as I didn't personally have the card graded by them.. Though the fact that it was, did indeed help in my decision to purchase it.

At first I was worried, because he said they would NOT send it back to me in the same holder if it was determined to be less than a 7 upon inspection. I thought this was unfair, after all, I own the card. I did not want a 6 and the difference in cash. I saved a long time for a 7, and it's a 7 I want to pass on to my son someday... Sure, you may say "you can sell the 6 and with the cash buy another 7", thats a big maybe, and also, I've been burned on ebay.. And even if all of that worked out miraculously perfect, what a huge inconvenience buying that Yogi Berra rookie in the SGC holder would have turnout ot to be!

Anyway, long story short, because it's not a 'scarce' card in NM7, if they determine it cannot in good conscience be re-slabbed as a 7, they will replace the card with another NM7 Yogi Berra Rookie. If they honor their word, I will be an outspoken SGC cheerleader for life...

Thanks again for the advice from you all!

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