1933 Diamond Matchbooks

[TanksAndSpartans]

These come up in my searches from time to time because of my interest in players from the 30s - I don't actually own any although I've been tempted since there seem to be more than the 36 players Chicle included.

I especially like the players included in 33. 2 questions for the group:

1) Does anyone have a checklist?

2) Why do so many players have orange numbers? I'm not an expert on uniform colors, but when I keep seeing what I can only describe as dark maroon jerseys and bright orange numbers - something just seems off. I did do some googling re: uniform colors and apart from maybe the Bears, all these orange numbers aren't adding up. Anyone else notice this? Were they possibly just all colorized the same way?

Thanks!

[sockwell123]

I dont have any knowledge on the subject but i did a search and this site popped up with some for sale..and it appears with some differnt color jersey numbers..maybe you can contact the seller or some'n

www.vintagefootballcards.com

And this link to an article here on net54 about the subject
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...RXPftwLtO4KFgA

[swarmee]

I'm not an expert in them, but do know that John "Stumpy" Thomason was known at Georgia Tech for owning a bear that was given to him at the 1929 Rose Bowl against the Cal Bears. It was named Bruin and lived under the bleachers at GT's football stadium. It was known to drink Coca Cola and alcohol and would sometimes be corralled by the Atlanta Police Department.

[swarmee]

*double post*

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.

I heard that bear story before. What I read is that is that Roy Lumpkin basically got in trouble for cutting class the season GT won that Rose Bowl, so he decided to turn pro before camp started the next season - he wanted to take his friend with him, but the other guy wanted to stay and take care of his Bear! (Some of this may be off - it was a while ago).

So no one collects these matchbooks? Specifically, all the 32 Portsmouth Spartans cards have orange numbers, but I believe they wore purple and gold. I saw one Redskins player with orange numbers and one Dodgers player with an orange stripe on the uniform. My theory is they colorized black and white pictures without regard for the colors matching their real life counterparts. It actually hadn't dawned on me the colors may be off at first - but I just felt like I was seeing too much orange.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

So no one collects these matchbooks? Specifically, all the 32 Portsmouth Spartans cards have orange numbers, but I believe they wore purple and gold. I saw one Redskins player with orange numbers and one Dodgers player with an orange stripe on the uniform. My theory is they colorized black and white pictures without regard for the colors matching their real life counterparts. It actually hadn't dawned on me the colors may be off at first - but I just felt like I was seeing too much orange.

I believe you are correct, John. The colors on these aren't necessarily correct. I believe they colorized them according to the colors they were planning to use in printing more to highlight the photos than to be correct.

I am slowly working on all of the football matchbooks out there including not only the Diamond ones but the Redskin sets. There are also sets for the Colts (one of the few AAFC sets of any kind available), Houston Oilers, etc, plus individual ones of players like Grange, Nagurski, etc.

Here are a few.











jeff

[clamendo]

If you go to the SGC Card Registry you will see a complete checklist of every 1933 Diamond Matchbook with all variations. There maybe a straggler or two color variations.


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[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff and Carl. Jeff, thanks for posting some scans. It makes sense what you said about the colors - without having seen many color photos of players from that era - its easy not to give the accuracy of those photos a second thought. Here is a link that the uniforms can be compared with: http://www.gridiron-uniforms.com/1932.html. Interesting to see the Braves/Redskins wearing blue! Also, selecting the Giants, I see a uniform very similar to the one Burnett is wearing in the scan Jeff posted. No orange.

Carl, wow - you finished the 33 set. Did you also work on other years?

This is the SGC 33 checklist:

1 Gene Alford (Green Bio) 1.00
2 Gene Alford (Pink Bio) 1.00
3 Marger Apsit (Green Bio) 1.00
4 Marger Apsit (Pink Bio) 1.00
5 Morris Badgro (Green Bio) 2.00
6 Morris Badgro (Pink Bio) 2.00
7 Cliff Battles (Green Bio) 3.00
9 Morris Bodenger (Pink Bio) 1.00
10 James Bowdoin (Pink Bio) 1.00
12 John L. Boylan (Pink Bio) 1.00
13 Hank Bruder (Green Bio) 2.00
14 Hank Bruder (Pink Bio) 2.00
15 Carl Brumbaugh (Green Bio) 1.00
16 Carl Brumbaugh (Pink Bio) 1.00
17 Bill Buckler (Pink Bio) 1.00
18 Jerome E. Buckley (Green Bio) 1.00
19 Dale Burnett (Green Bio) 1.00
20 Dale Burnett (Pink Bio) 1.00
21 Ernest Caddell (Pink Bio) 2.00
22 Chris Cagle (Green Bio) 2.00
23 Chris Cagle (Pink Bio) 2.00
24 Chris Cagle (White Numbers/Football) (Green Bio) 3.00
25 Glen Campbell (Green Bio) 1.00
26 Glen Campbell (Pink Bio) 1.00
27 John Cannella (Green Bio) 1.00
28 Jules Carlson (Pink Bio) 1.00
29 George W. Christensen (Pink Bio) 2.00
30 Stuart Clancy (Green Bio) 1.00
31 Paul Collins (Green Bio) 1.00
32 Paul Collins (Pink Bio) 1.00
33 John F. Connell Pink Bio) 1.00
34 Geo. Corbett (Pink Bio) 1.00
35 Orien Crow (Green Bio) 1.00
36 Orien Crow (Pink Bio) 1.00
37 Ed. Danowski (Green Bio) 1.00
38 Ed. Danowski (Pink Bio) 1.00
39 Sylvester Davis (Green Bio) 1.00
40 Sylvester Davis (Pink Bio) 1.00
41 Johnny Del Isola (Green Bio) 2.00
42 Johnny Del Isola (Pink Bio) 2.00
43 John Doehring (Pink Bio) 1.00
44 Glen Edwards (Green Bio) 4.00
45 Glen Edwards (Pink Bio) 4.00
46 Earl H. Elser (Green Bio) 1.00
47 Earl H. Elser (Pink Bio) 1.00
48 Grover Emerson (Green Bio) 2.00
49 Grover Emerson (Pink Bio) 2.00
50 "Tiny" Feather (Green Bio) 2.00
51 Ray Flaherty (Green Bio) 2.00
52 Ray Flaherty (Pink Bio) 2.00
53 Ike Franklin (Green Bio) 1.00
54 Ike Franklin (Pink Bio) 1.00
55 Harold (Red) Grange (Green Bio) 5.00
56 Harold (Red) Grange (Pink Bio) 5.00
57 Leonard Grant (Green Bio) 1.00
58 Ace Gutowsky (Green Bio) 2.00
59 Ace Gutowsky (Pink Bio) 2.00
60 Melvin Hein (Green Bio) 5.00
61 Arnold Herber (Pink Bio) 8.00
62 Bill Hewitt (Green Bio) 5.00
63 Herman Hickman (Green Bio) 2.00
64 Herman Hickman (Pink Bio) 2.00
65 Clark Hinkle (Green Bio) 5.00
66 Clark Hinkle (Pink Bio) 5.00
67 Cal Hubbard (Green Bio) 10.00
68 Cal Hubbard (Pink Bio) 10.00
69 Geo. Hurley (Green Bio) 1.00
70 Geo. Hurley (Pink Bio) 1.00
71 Herman Hussey (Pink Bio) 2.00
72 Cecil Irvin (Green Bio) 1.00
73 Luke Johnsos (Green Bio) 2.00
74 Luke Johnsos (Pink Bio) 2.00
75 Bruce Jones (Green Bio) 1.00
76 Bruce Jones (Pink Bio) 1.00
77 Tom Jones (Green Bio) 1.00
78 Thacker J. Kaye (Pink Bio) 2.00
79 John Simms Kelly (Green Bio) 2.00
80 John Simms Kelly (Pink Bio) 2.00
81 Joe Kopcha (Pink Bio) 2.00
82 Joe Kurth (Green Bio) 3.00
83 Joe Kurth (Pink Bio) 3.00
84 Milo Lubratovitch (Green Bio) 1.00
85 Milo Lubratovitch (Pink Bio) 1.00
86 Roy Lumpkin (Green Bio) 2.00
87 Roy Lumpkin (Pink Bio) 2.00
88 Jim Mac Murdo (Green Bio) 1.00
89 Jim Mac Murdo (Pink Bio) 1.00
90 Joe Maniaci (Pink Bio) 1.00
91 Jack McBride (Green Bio) 1.00
93 Ookie Miller (Pink Bio) 1.00
94 Granville Mitchell (Pink Bio) 1.00
95 Keith Molesworth (Pink Bio) 1.00
96 Bob Monett (Pink Bio) 3.00
97 Hap Moran (Green Bio) 1.00
98 Hap Moran (Pink Bio) 1.00
99 Bill Morgan (Green Bio) 1.00
100 Maynard Morrison (Pink Bio) 2.00
101 Matthew Murray (Pink Bio) 1.00
102 Jim Musick (Green Bio) 1.00
103 Jim Musick (Pink Bio) 1.00
104 Bronco Nagurski (Pink Bio) 10.00
105 Dick Nesbitt (Pink Bio) 1.00
106 Harry Newman (Green Bio) 2.00
107 William Owen (Green Bio) Photo of Steve Owen 2.00
108 William Owen (Green Bio) 3-Point Stance 1.00
109 Steve Owen (Green Bio) 4.00
110 Andy Pavlicovic (Pink Bio) 2.00
111 Bert Pearson (Pink Bio) 1.00
112 William P. Pendergast (Green Bio) 1.00
113 William P. Pendergast (Pink Bio) 1.00
114 Jerry Pepper (Pink Bio) 1.00
115 Stan Piawlock (Pink Bio) 1.00
116 Erny Pinckert (Green Bio) 2.00
117 Erny Pinckert (Pink Bio) 2.00
118 Glen Presnell (Green Bio) 1.00
119 Glen Presnell (Pink Bio) 1.00
120 Jess Quatse (Pink Bio) 3.00
121 Henry Reese (Green Bio) 1.00
123 Richard O. Richards (Pink Bio) 1.00
124 Tony Saransky (Pink Bio) 1.00
125 Elmer Schaake (Green Bio) 1.00
126 Elmer Schaake (Pink Bio) 1.00
127 John Schneller (Green Bio) 1.00
128 John Schneller (Pink Bio) 1.00
129 Johnny Sisk (Pink Bio) 1.00
130 Michael Steponovitch (Green Bio) 1.00
131 Michael Steponovitch (Pink Bio) 1.00
132 Ken Strong (Green Bio) 4.00
133 C.O. Tackwell (Pink Bio) 2.00
134 Harry Thayer (Green Bio) 1.00
135 Harry Thayer (Pink Bio) 1.00
136 Walter Uzdavinis (Pink Bio) 1.00
137 John J. Welch (Pink Bio) 1.00
138 William E. Whelan (Pink Bio) 1.00
139 Fay Wilson (Green Bio) 2.00
140 Fay Wilson (Pink Bio) 2.00
141 Frank (Babe) Wright (Green Bio) 1.00
142 Frank (Babe) Wright (Pink Bio) 1.00
143 All-Amer. Board Of Football Seal 1.00

[obiwin]

The checklist is missing a pink variation of Cliff Battles.

Here's a link to it and most of the Redskins in the set.

http://www.collectredskins.com/Match...1933-Diamond-/

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks! I actually emailed PSA about a week ago regarding grading these - I'll update the thread if I get a reply back. Is Jim Musick holding two footballs, one in each hand or am I just seeing double again?

[Footballdude]

I too collect matchcovers. However, I don't have any from the first silver set, so I'll be watching this thread with interest. I do have over 125 from other sets though.

[jefferyepayne]

This is a great thread but we need more pictures from those who have these! I have only a few so haven't started to tackle this one yet.

Here is one of the big dogs that I do have.



jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Awesome! The Hubbard is the rarest, right? Jeff are either of those recent wins? I think I remember seeing a Hubbard matchbook in an SGC holder in one of the recent spring auctions.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Awesome! The Hubbard is the rarest, right? Jeff are either of those recent wins? I think I remember seeing a Hubbard matchbook in an SGC holder in one of the recent spring auctions.

I know its ONE of the more difficult ones to find but not sure about the rarest. I'd have to pull John Spano's excellent article on Diamond Matchbooks from Gridiron Greats to check. I know SGC gives it along with the Nagurski the most weight in their equation but I don't put much credence into what the grading companies think. They often don't know the sets as well as hard core collectors and their weightings are often just plain wrong.

You have a good memory, John! I picked up both of these in a BST auction lot recently.

jeff

[clamendo]

Herber and Nagurski maybe the stars that are the rarest


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[clamendo]

No matter who the grading company is they don't use the proper standard to grade matchbooks. They grade them like cards. Most important thing is striker intact not "bob tailed " and unstuck. Who cares if there is some writing (usually numbers) on the back or light tape/ glue residue.


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[obiwin]

@DezHood. It's funny that you asked, I too have often wondered whether Jim Musick was holding the ball sideways or if he was, as you are seeing, in fact, holding two footballs.

I wasn't sure, but was leaning towards the two footballs.

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks! I actually emailed PSA about a week ago regarding grading these - I'll update the thread if I get a reply back. Is Jim Musick holding two footballs, one in each hand or am I just seeing double again?

[TanksAndSpartans]

OK, I see it now, with my glasses on, I think Musick is holding the football sideways - two footballs would've been cool though.

I got a response from PSA regarding the grading:

We do actually grade some of the 1933-1938 Diamond Matchbooks Football Cards. Below I’ve included the items we’ve already graded, however, if you do not see your items listed please respond with front and back images of the items in question along with as much information as you can provide. Once I hear back from you I will contact our research department and should have a response within 7-10 Business Days.

Then I got an image which listed 12 subjects:

33 Nagurski
35 Badgro
35 Musso
36 Nagurski
36 Stydahar
37 Manders
37 Corbett
37 Bausch
37 Fortmann
37 Feathers
38 Maniaci
38 Famiglietti

So I guess they recognize these, but all others need to be proven to exist? A bit of a head scratcher. I've never see one in a PSA holder, so it is interesting to know these 12 are out there.

Given the response though, I may just reply back "thanks", let me know if you have any better follow up.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Also, Carl or Jeff or others, what would a "mint" matchbook look like? Would it be one that was folded with the matches in it just like they come out of the cigarette machines today?

When Carl says: "Most important thing is striker intact not "bob tailed " and unstuck." - I'm not familiar with the terminology.

[obiwin]

here's an example of what "bob tail" means

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1934-Diamond...item20f8a14d4a

notice how the Paul Collins on the right is missing the striker portion at the top whereas the Orien Crow on the left still has the striker portion intact. The Paul Collins one is considered a bobtail.

and I think "unstuck" was a typo. I think Carl meant "unstruck" as in that the striker portion of the matchbook has not been used to actually light a match, so that the striker portion remains pristine.

Originally Posted by DezHood

Also, Carl or Jeff or others, what would a "mint" matchbook look like? Would it be one that was folded with the matches in it just like they come out of the cigarette machines today?

When Carl says: "Most important thing is striker intact not "bob tailed " and unstuck." - I'm not familiar with the terminology.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Obiwin - great explanation of what a bobtail is. And unstruck makes sense too, the striker would look like a clean slate if it had never been used. What about the matches and the folds? As a collector, flattened out without matches (safety issue if you have a lot of them?) would seem like the optimal state for storage, but technically one that was in its original state would have the matches.... What's the thought on that?

[Exhibitman]

A Nagurski:



Here are a few Redskins matchcovers:






A later cover for a hair product that I picked up for the HOF boxer:

[obiwin]

I personally prefer them flattened out without the matches. I feel this is the state that is most presentable and easiest to store.

I store them either in 6 pocket pages or 3x5 toploaders.


Whole books in their original folded state with all matches and unstruck panel tend to sell for a premium. But I personally don't like to pay extra for an item that is harder to look at and enjoy.

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks Obiwin - great explanation of what a bobtail is. And unstruck makes sense too, the striker would look like a clean slate if it had never been used. What about the matches and the folds? As a collector, flattened out without matches (safety issue if you have a lot of them?) would seem like the optimal state for storage, but technically one that was in its original state would have the matches.... What's the thought on that?

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by obiwin

I personally prefer them flattened out without the matches. I feel this is the state that is most presentable and easiest to store.

I store them either in 6 pocket pages or 3x5 toploaders.


Whole books in their original folded state with all matches and unstruck panel tend to sell for a premium. But I personally don't like to pay extra for an item that is harder to look at and enjoy.

Good points. Matchbooks are one of those items that display better in lower grade (?!). There are other items like that as well but none more so than matchbooks.

I have some of each as well and like them flat too. Plus I always wonder ... if I bump the matchbooks with matches still in them, is it possible it will start a fire? The matches are sooo old you would think not but who knows?

I can just imaging a collector losing their entire collection (or house!) because their minty matchbooks set the place on fire...

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks guys - interesting paradox and Jeff I thought the same thing about the matches - I'd have reservations collecting anything with actual matches.

[clamendo]

I once had to buy a matchbook cover I needed with matches intact. I paid a hefty premium, but promptly removed the staple and matches. I think when you go to the post office they ask you about sending anything flammable. I'll bet shipping intact matchbooks maybe illegal? Anyone know?


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[jefferyepayne]

I got this off the USPS web site:

Shipping Instructions for Matches

Safety Matches

Safety matches have treated match heads that will only ignite when struck against a specially prepared surface like a match book, card, or box. Safety matches may be shipped domestically using ground transportation. Safety matches may not be sent by air or mailed internationally.

Strike-Anywhere Matches

Strike–anywhere matches will light from friction against any surface. Strike-anywhere matches may not be mailed domestically or internationally.

So you can send 'safety' matches through the mail domestically by ground. I don't know whether Diamond Matchbooks include safety matches or not.

jeff

[revmoran]

I have a slide show of matchbooks on my website at www.hapmoran.org
Here are a few

[TanksAndSpartans]

Great website! I love how the write ups on yours are right side up! Thanks for taking the trouble to do that - it adds so much value to your display not to have to rotate those. I took the time to read a lot of them, and the back of Roy "Father" Lumpkin's stood out. It mentioned he was a BB (blocking back or blocking half) except when he moved to fullback. That observation was exactly what I saw in the film of the 32 Spartans/Giants game. He played both positions. When he carried the ball, he was lined up as fullback with a hand on the ground, but the snap went directly to him rather than to the tailback Dutch Clark. I don't believe he ever carried when he was lined up at BB - that position was really close to the line of scrimmage. I love when the back of a card (or matchbook in this case) is well done with accurate information. Although I was hoping for the origin of that "Father" nickname - always makes me wonder....

[wrestlingcardking]

I am hoping to find a 1933 matchbook of Nagurski. Any idea what that should run me? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[wrestlingcardking]

I am hoping to find a 1933 matchbook of Nagurski. Any idea what that should run me? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I'd have to pull John Spano's excellent article on Diamond Matchbooks from Gridiron Greats

I think John's article (referenced by Jeff above) says $1000 for a Nagurski, but he also mentions they don't come up often. Looking for a link to the article.....

[wrestlingcardking]

Thanks, any help is appreciated.

[TanksAndSpartans]

This is a tough one. I'm chasing a few matchbooks myself in cases where a player doesn't have a card (Roy Lumpkin for example) and I can never find much sales data. Sometimes they seem to sell in lots. I searched for the Nagurski on several auction sites - Heritage, REA, LOTG, Goodwin, Sterling. All of these sites provide historical data. For Nagurski, I only saw his chicle card, dixie lid, a signed check (Heritage actually had several signed items) - no luck on the matchbook. I'll have to defer to someone who collects these, but they don't seem to come up often.....

In terms of the GridIron Greats article, I think the article may have been in issue #1. I'm not sure because I have an author's copy. Here is the link: http://gridirongreatsmagazine.com/backissues1-22.html

[jefferyepayne]

There have been three articles in GG on Diamond Matchbooks. I was referring to the one by John Spano in Volume #39.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff. Issue #39 is available here: http://gridirongreatsmagazine.com/backissues.html

I may pick this one up - I like the cover (http://gridirongreatsmagazine.com/im...9cover-lrg.jpg - although I would've swapped Nagurski and Grange so that Nags was at FB ). I've purchased back issues before - very smooth with prompt shipping.

[Myachelydra]

The last Nagurski that I know of that sold was in a lot...believe it was 2011.

The other one I have notes on sold in the Spring of 2005 on eBay.

As tough if not tougher than Herber.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks John - always good to hear from you!

I normally don’t care for reprint sets because there always seems to be a scammer trying to sell as the real thing, but I wish someone would reprint these as cards - I’d buy just to look through and read the backs. I know MSB has a good inventory and there is one eBay seller who has a number of them up as BIN - but I’m yet to see an auction - I’m guessing they aren’t frequent….

[davemri]

I have about 8-10 of the 33's however, I only collect HOF'ers.

Im still missing Nags, Herber and Hubbard.

Here is a "unfolded proof" maybe a salesman's sample?

[davemri]

a few others.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Awesome - thanks Dave. Since I bought a bunch of HOF rookies from you, I'm guessing your out of the card game. Are you strictly collecting memorabilia and "oddball" items like matchbooks these days? Did you see the pre-war thread? The Spaulding Friedman and Star Player Candy Driscoll come to mind as HOF rookie (unofficial) cards - did you go after any of those?

[davemri]

yeah, been out of the game for a few years. Divorce forced me to sell my entire football HOF RC set that was sitting at 100%.

However, I did manage to keep my matchbooks and pre-rookies that I enjoyed hunting down. The cards I sold are all replaceable. These matchbooks, not so much.

I definatly have my eye open for a Driscoll and Friedman and I came real close at landing one of each but came up just short. Long story.

anyway, yes, I'm looking more at memorabilia and adding things here and there. I just finished my basement last year and piddle with things for my display.

Hope all is well!!

Dave

[davemri]

Heres how my football room is currently sitting. Im going to the national in a couple weeks and looking to add a few pieces.

[jefferyepayne]

Great to see you pop up in this thread, Dave! Your basement is looking awesome.

Don't be a stranger!

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

Don't be a stranger!

+1

"pre-rookies" - I forgot that term. Glad you got to keep the tougher items.

Love the Chicle poster in the middle of the display!

[revmoran]

[wrestlingcardking]

Is that just an image or is that yours? Thanks for sharing!

[revmoran]

I have a 33 Nagurski but not a 34 Nagurski - only a scan - I guess a 34 Grange or Nagurski matchcover would be among the hardest of the set to find.

[wrestlingcardking]

Wow, I had not seen that one before. Thanks for sharing. My want list is now longer, LOL.

[wrestlingcardking]

I had a few free grades so I got these done............

1 1 24576177 VERY GOOD 3 1936 Diamond Matchbooks Bronko Nagurski Card
2 1 24576178 VERY GOOD 3 1938 Dixie Lids Bronko Nagurski Large Card
3 1 24576179 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT+ 4.5 1938 Dixie Lids Bronko Nagurski Large Card
Total Items: 3
Date Received: 7/8/2015
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: OK