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  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:10 AM
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Default Cleveland's IX Center to Close - Home to the National

Will the National look for a different venue in Cleveland, or abandon the city altogether? The only other venue I can think of in Cleveland that would be able to host this would presumably be too expensive for the National since it's downtown.

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  #2  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:17 AM
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Good question. They will probably go wherever they can get the "free rent", regardless of how inaccessible/problematic it is for the attendees.
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:23 AM
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Hope it heads West!
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:25 AM
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I'm thinking some wealthy company or person will buy it and continue it as a convention center as long is the city doesn't have plans to tear it down and turn it into some kind of high rise housing because it's close to the airport
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2020, 10:34 AM
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Screw Cleveland and Screw Chicago. Move the dam national around so other collectors can attend one. National my ass. There will be plenty of dealers to set up and take the place of the spoiled ones.
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:50 PM
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You know, I am going to kind of miss going to Cleveland for the show. Sure, the venue sucked, the lodgings were not first-rate, etc., but the lack of anything to do made for some good evenings at the bar and I always had good luck finding stuff at the show. And where else is there a ferris wheel to break up the show floor??? I just hope they don't put it in AC instead. Just make it Chicago every year. It is easy to get to, there's lots of convenient dining and lodging, and the venue is decent.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2020, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
You know, I am going to kind of miss going to Cleveland for the show. Sure, the venue sucked, the lodgings were not first-rate, etc., but the lack of anything to do made for some good evenings at the bar and I always had good luck finding stuff at the show. And where else is there a ferris wheel to break up the show floor??? I just hope they don't put it in AC instead. Just make it Chicago every year. It is easy to get to, there's lots of convenient dining and lodging, and the venue is decent.
agreed
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2020, 01:25 PM
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Boston would be nice---they have everything the National would need---But the toughest unions to deal with in the country. And only 2 hours for me---But my guess is Chicago.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2020, 01:42 PM
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Default Honestly

I am a proponent of Chicago every year if they arent going to bother making it a true national and move it all around the country.
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  #10  
Old 09-16-2020, 01:44 PM
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Default IX Center

Lots of good memories at the Cleveland National. Hope it stays there. Trent King
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:37 PM
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Default Sad day!

The first and best National I ever attended was the Cleveland National in 1997.

Patrick
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:48 PM
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How about Hertz Arena in SW Florida, halfway between Naples & FT Myers. Right next to I-75.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:03 PM
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Boo! The Cleveland site is way better, in my opinion, than Chicago. Sure there are quality hotels next door or attached to the Chicago Convention Center. But they all cost well over $200 per night and You could get a limo ride to a great hotel in Cleveland and still save $100.
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:06 PM
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One vote for anything west of Arizona.
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:43 PM
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I did not mind Cleveland at all. Was always able to find a halfway decent restaurant in the vicinity for food/drink, and the IX Centre was fine.

Florida? Atlanta? Dallas? A northerner like me would melt after a couple of days down there in August.
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:43 PM
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I did not mind Cleveland at all. Was always able to find a halfway decent restaurant in the vicinity for food/drink, and the IX Centre was fine.

Florida? Atlanta? Dallas? A northerner like me would melt after a couple of days down there in August.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:56 PM
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Default Wow!!

That is crazy news! I hope they figure something out that can keep the national in rotation there - way easier in ways than Chicago.
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:58 PM
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I will miss this venue. I always found it to be a comfortable and convenient location for me. And, an indoor carnival wheel to ride if you wanted a break.
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
Screw Cleveland and Screw Chicago. Move the dam national around so other collectors can attend one. National my ass. There will be plenty of dealers to set up and take the place of the spoiled ones.
I like your style, Frank.

Seattle, Phoenix, Vegas, Denver or L.A. would all be awesome for different reasons, but I'm not holding my breath.
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:28 PM
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I like your style, Frank.

Seattle, Phoenix, Vegas, Denver or L.A. would all be awesome for different reasons, but I'm not holding my breath.
Agree... and don't forget San Diego!
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  #21  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:41 PM
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Maybe if we cheer hard enough (think of The Godfather's guests imploring Johnny Fontaine to take the stage at Connie's wedding) maybe we can coax Mark Macrae into organizing some sort of semi-huge show in California. His bi-annual St. Leander's shows are great!!
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2020, 07:02 PM
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Why is it that every time the National is mentioned, we hear the same thing over and over again? Move it around the country? Move it to the West Coast as one of the rotation locations? Keep it in Chicago every year?

Did you know that at the last National on the West Coast, most of the East Coast dealers took their one out of every five election to not set up at the National.

We are not "spoiled". We accrued our seniority and most of the long-time dealers are old now and don't want to make such a long trip. The National Committee knows the facts and understands that it is an important part of the National to have most of the premier dealers in the country set up at the show.

A National is simply not a National without them. Substituting local dealers and new faces is just not what the customers really want. Yes, they want an acceptable amount of new dealers and new faces. But they travel to the National to see their friends and the people they have bought from for many years. You can see your local dealers at your local shows!!

Sadly, I will miss the Cleveland show and was disappointed that the Atlantic City show was cancelled. I wouldn't mind if they changed the Cleveland show to an Atlantic City one. But I would mind going to Chicago every year for the National, but if so, I would be there.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2020, 07:10 PM
Brian Van Horn Brian Van Horn is offline
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I'll miss the Ferris Wheel.
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:09 PM
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Cleveland was low on my list for accommodations, but as others noted the lack of other things to do made for some good interaction with others at the bar and some after show trading/meet ups.

Chicago just works because most people can get there direct and the drive isn't a killer for the East Coasters, plus the accommodations and center are really good.

AC is hard to get to but the accommodations and center are actually pretty good.

I don't think Boston would ever work because it also isn't as accessible,
same issue for Philly probably. Similar issues for Baltimore on the travel for non-East Coasters.

Phoenix would actually be really good, but again not super accessible especially for the East Coasters.

Dallas and Houston are never on these lists, but I think some of that is "stuff" to do besides the show. Accommodations and centers are as good as any of these others, and both are pretty easy to get to from both coasts.

I always thought Anaheim was awesome, I appreciate the East Coasters don't like that haul but I also don't think a skip every 4-5 years hurts that much.

Anyway, my guess is Cleveland is officially dead as a location now, so it's kinda Chicago and...Chicago.
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_NY View Post
Why is it that every time the National is mentioned, we hear the same thing over and over again? Move it around the country? Move it to the West Coast as one of the rotation locations? Keep it in Chicago every year?

Did you know that at the last National on the West Coast, most of the East Coast dealers took their one out of every five election to not set up at the National.

We are not "spoiled". We accrued our seniority and most of the long-time dealers are old now and don't want to make such a long trip. The National Committee knows the facts and understands that it is an important part of the National to have most of the premier dealers in the country set up at the show.

A National is simply not a National without them. Substituting local dealers and new faces is just not what the customers really want. Yes, they want an acceptable amount of new dealers and new faces. But they travel to the National to see their friends and the people they have bought from for many years. You can see your local dealers at your local shows!!

Sadly, I will miss the Cleveland show and was disappointed that the Atlantic City show was cancelled. I wouldn't mind if they changed the Cleveland show to an Atlantic City one. But I would mind going to Chicago every year for the National, but if so, I would be there.
So it's not a National without the east coast dealers? You should be pandered to because you "have seniority"? You're old and don't want to travel far? Sounds pretty spoiled to me.

IMO, the ideal situation would be a set of regular east coast dealers that all make the trip to Chicago and then a set from the west coast that all make the trip to the Phoenix/Vegas area and alternate years.
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2020, 08:46 PM
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Atlanta, Orlando, DC/Baltimore, Philly, Charlotte???

All this talk about the 'East Coast Dealers' and every year the National is in the Mid-West? WTH??
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:09 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_NY View Post
Why is it that every time the National is mentioned, we hear the same thing over and over again? Move it around the country? Move it to the West Coast as one of the rotation locations? Keep it in Chicago every year?

Did you know that at the last National on the West Coast, most of the East Coast dealers took their one out of every five election to not set up at the National.

We are not "spoiled". We accrued our seniority and most of the long-time dealers are old now and don't want to make such a long trip. The National Committee knows the facts and understands that it is an important part of the National to have most of the premier dealers in the country set up at the show.

A National is simply not a National without them. Substituting local dealers and new faces is just not what the customers really want. Yes, they want an acceptable amount of new dealers and new faces. But they travel to the National to see their friends and the people they have bought from for many years. You can see your local dealers at your local shows!!

Sadly, I will miss the Cleveland show and was disappointed that the Atlantic City show was cancelled. I wouldn't mind if they changed the Cleveland show to an Atlantic City one. But I would mind going to Chicago every year for the National, but if so, I would be there.
Right. The east coast dealers don't want to go west, but they do expect the west coast dealers AND buyers to go east. Check. But you aren't selfish or anything ... you just have "seniority." Whatever. I will never go to AC. It is both a dump and hard to get to. I guess I'll take my "one out of five" to avoid that dump every time it is held there.
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  #28  
Old 09-16-2020, 09:48 PM
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50% of the US population lives within 500 miles from WV. Makes sense to have it on the East Coast.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:01 PM
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50% of the US population lives within 500 miles from WV. Makes sense to have it on the East Coast.
If we still drove horse and buggies this would make complete sense.
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  #30  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:11 PM
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When you consider that two-thirds of the country is west of the Mississippi River, it would be very nice to have the "National Convention" come across the river once in a while!

Steve
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  #31  
Old 09-17-2020, 12:03 AM
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[quote=Steve D;2018253]When you consider that two-thirds of the country is west of the Mississippi River, it would be very nice to have the "National Convention" come across the river once in a while!

Other than the fact that the Committee doesn't give a fu*k about that. Its all about where they can get the best deal/make money from booking it there. It is zero about collectors, hasn't been that for over 20 years. it is IMO crazy. Truly a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face. But, sadly, it seems to work.
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  #32  
Old 09-17-2020, 01:26 AM
Casey2296 Casey2296 is online now
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Baseball used to be just an East Coast thing to. Perhaps the West should start their own gig, just like they did in the 50's.
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2020, 05:49 AM
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Let see. The name of the show is the National Sports COLLECTORS Convention. Somewhere along the way it has turned into The National Sports Dealers Convention. COLECTORS being the key word. Move the thing around for the collectors.
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2020, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donscards View Post
Boston would be nice---they have everything the National would need---But the toughest unions to deal with in the country. And only 2 hours for me---But my guess is Chicago.
Transportation in Boston is really tough. I cant see the city housing 40,000 people for a week. You'd have to go outside of it for cheap lodging. There's really only one way out and one way in to the city. Believe me, there's nothing I'd love more than to have a National here, but the city is not good. There are 2 large convention centers that are used for anything except the auto show in December at the waterfront. Boston has great sports history which is a plus but how knows, maybe I'm wrong on a National here? What do you think?
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:07 AM
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I think Boston could work, I think at one time there wasn't a large enough venue in the area.

Providence has a big convention center.
I went to a rabbit convention there and supposedly it was the only local place big enough. (They did it a couple years ago at the eastern states in springfield, but that's a bit too rural for the high rollers.

The stamp collectors have multiple large shows every year in different locations. (and an international in Boston in 2026 a big enough event they're starting to plan it already.) Many of the big dealers go to most of the big shows.
And if you guys think card dealers are old.....
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:07 AM
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If it's in Chicago would a bulletproof vest booth slide through?
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  #37  
Old 09-17-2020, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_NY View Post
We are not "spoiled". We accrued our seniority and most of the long-time dealers are old now and don't want to make such a long trip. The National Committee knows the facts and understands that it is an important part of the National to have most of the premier dealers in the country set up at the show.
We've had it wrong all this time. They are not "spoiled", They're "premier."

I needed a good laugh. Thanks.
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  #38  
Old 09-17-2020, 09:37 AM
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If we still drove horse and buggies this would make complete sense.
Thanks a lot.... spilled coffee on my shirt reading that one.
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  #39  
Old 09-17-2020, 10:06 AM
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I for one don't really care if the 'senior' dealers skip a show every few years; collectors likely would be pleasantly surprised at who turns up instead. One of the great parts of the National for me when it really rotated was going to different places and seeing different local dealers in the back third of the room. I picked up some great stuff over the years in Cleveland, Baltimore and Anaheim because local people could set up. I don't think it is any accident that as the show has retreated into a few locations the actual card dealer base has actually shrunk with relatively little new blood or inventory and I think I know why: it is very difficult and expensive to take two weeks off to drive back and forth to a show back east. I know if I could drive to a show in a day (LA, Anaheim, SD, LV, Phoenix, SF or Sacramento all would work) I could take a table because I could do so economically.
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  #40  
Old 09-17-2020, 11:16 AM
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One vote for anything west of Arizona.
Is there anything west of Arizona left?
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  #41  
Old 09-17-2020, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
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Screw Cleveland and Screw Chicago. Move the dam national around so other collectors can attend one. National my ass. There will be plenty of dealers to set up and take the place of the spoiled ones.
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  #42  
Old 09-17-2020, 12:10 PM
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I have always suggested that there be two Nationals -- one near the East Coast and one near the West Coast. If there were two shows, I would do both. In fact, if there were a West Coast show now, I WOULD set up as a booth holder this time. I guarantee that I would not exercise my one in five skip. So I am in favor with moving the show around if the logistics can be worked out.

Maybe a one in three or four year rotation with Chicago, Atlantic City, Las Vegas or Anaheim, and one other choice?

I am not in favor of the Boston location unless we can move our display in ourselves and break down ourselves. We would need the ability to drive to our booth location as we can do right now at all Nationals. New York would be nice at Javits Center but the same issues that apply in Boston are issues in New York.

Anaheim or San Francisco or Las Vegas could be worth a try if they meet those specifics. Las Vegas would be great as hotel rooms are inexpensive and it is easy to get in and out by plane or car.

I accept being called "spoiled" but I am still open to innovations and definitely favor some mix of locations.

Steve
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  #43  
Old 09-17-2020, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
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I have always suggested that there be two Nationals -- one near the East Coast and one near the West Coast. If there were two shows, I would do both. In fact, if there were a West Coast show now, I WOULD set up as a booth holder this time. I guarantee that I would not exercise my one in five skip. So I am in favor with moving the show around if the logistics can be worked out.

Maybe a one in three or four year rotation with Chicago, Atlantic City, Las Vegas or Anaheim, and one other choice?

I am not in favor of the Boston location unless we can move our display in ourselves and break down ourselves. We would need the ability to drive to our booth location as we can do right now at all Nationals. New York would be nice at Javits Center but the same issues that apply in Boston are issues in New York.

Anaheim or San Francisco or Las Vegas could be worth a try if they meet those specifics. Las Vegas would be great as hotel rooms are inexpensive and it is easy to get in and out by plane or car.

I accept being called "spoiled" but I am still open to innovations and definitely favor some mix of locations.

Steve
Sorry, but this post is quite a departure from your last one. If the east coast dealers sat out Anaheim, but everyone who went to Anaheim said it was a great show, then maybe you and your brethren have a misplaced sense of self importance.
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:45 PM
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Is there anything west of Arizona left?
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:57 PM
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If nothing is west of Mississippi then I wish they wouldn't call it a National. That always bothered me.

Ricky Y
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:07 PM
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A few years ago some hard-working soul put together a good summary of why the National is where it is and isn't where it isn't. (Too wiped out now to plow through the archives to look for the thread.)

Essentially it came down to three things:
availability of floor space--the venue has to be big enough, but not too big.
scheduling flexibility--some venues won't schedule events out far enough in advance, and others want committments too far in the future
union labor--driving right up to your space ain't gonna happen in a place like Boston or NYC. Only union labor can handle unloading and loading at some venues.
Bill
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:54 PM
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Bill- I know the union thing is true, but I don't understand how such idiocy is allowed. Who in their right mind negotiates these union contracts? I'm not anti-union, I'm anti-stupidity. What about my right to carry my own property where I want to carry it?

Last edited by GaryPassamonte; 09-17-2020 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:22 PM
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Usually you can self carry or use a 2-wheel dolly but can not drive in or use a 4-wheel dolly in the heavily unionized convention centers.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:54 PM
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Wouldn't want to upset the old guys with seniority. A National is simply not a National without them.
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
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If it's in Chicago would a bulletproof vest booth slide through?
Chicago is not really Chicago, it's in Rosemont a suburb of Chicago, so you're safe there.
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