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  #101  
Old 06-29-2020, 06:02 AM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

It is certainly possible that 544 is at top left of the 2nd sheet. Based on examining various illustrations of that card, some do have what appears to be an extra wide top border. One would probably need to find Piersall, Clarke, and Siebler as well with large top border to be more certain about that, however.

Northrup row also appears to have extra wide top border, so it my be that one sheet has Northrup at top left and the other has 544 top left.
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  #102  
Old 06-29-2020, 07:19 AM
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More great discoveries Cliff. And great interpretations by Kevvy(#99) ! BillP I agree on that weird colored card adjoining Hoerner it looks brown....I have made big maps of these discoveries-haha--trying to plot it out. Very exciting as a '66 fan to see this guys.Thanks again.
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  #103  
Old 06-29-2020, 09:13 PM
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I think the card above Hoerner has the same dark red rectangle block as the Perranoski. The Perranoski has a yellow rectangle block card above it, the Franks has a lime green sideways card to the left of it. ETA: It has to be the #579 Davey Johnson three player rookie card to the left of Franks, which may already be known.
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File Type: jpg 66 perranoski.jpg (74.6 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg 66 franks.jpg (47.2 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 66 hoerner 3.jpg (49.8 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 66 hoerner 8.jpg (78.1 KB, 110 views)
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  #104  
Old 06-29-2020, 11:42 PM
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I think these are new.
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File Type: jpg 66 tigers 3.jpg (77.9 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg 66 tigers 2.jpg (70.1 KB, 109 views)
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  #105  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:28 AM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

Awesome work Cliff. I wish I knew where you find these miscuts as I can't seem to mfind them.

Yes, Franks (537) is adjacent to Johnson Rookie (579) and Hoerner rookie (544) is below Perranowski (555) at some point on the two half-sheets.

The Tiger team info is new. It looks like the Tiger team (583) is above either Sadowski (523) or Wilson (575). The second image appears to place the Tiger team card left of a Tiger or Cardinals card because of the yellow, but it could be one of several cards.

I know it isn't Northrup (since he leads a row), Navarro (he is right of Howser), or McLain (who is right of 591). Unfortunately, that still leaves as possibilities McFarlane (569), Mahaffey (570), or Sullivan (597) as possibilities and I don't know where any of those three cards are located.

I lean towards it being McFarlane simply because his card may be a SP like the team card is, but that is simply my guess.
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  #106  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:31 AM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

and yes, Perranwoski (555) is located below Northrup (554) at some point, so the yellow block makes sense.
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  #107  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:38 AM
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I would say McFarlane is a match.
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File Type: jpg 66 tigers 2.jpg (75.4 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg 66 mcfarlane.jpg (69.9 KB, 107 views)
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  #108  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:59 AM
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I believe it has to be Sadowski under the Tigers team card. It would be showing the top of Wilson's cap if it was him.
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File Type: jpg 66 tigers 3.jpg (52.5 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg 66 sadowski.jpg (39.3 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg 66 wilson.jpg (37.0 KB, 105 views)
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  #109  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:06 AM
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Thank you for finding and posting these images, I think you’ve posted more in a couple days than I was ever able to find over a couple years trying to do this by myself lol.
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  #110  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:14 PM
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There is an ebay item listed that has 3 miscut 66 highs right now. Horlen is on top on 575 earl wilson, 542 george smith is on top of 550 mccovey and 533 adair is on top of 558 red sox rookies.

1966 topps high number miscut lot in ebay

billp
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  #111  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:35 PM
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I second that--thanks so much. This info is amazing. I love the '63 info ,too. But '66 has always been such a big question mark for me. I have my 7th Series checklist from childhood still.Most of that collection was lost or thrown away. It is the W.Sox Rookies version.It has 16 cards checked on it from the final 7th series sheets. And I remember at least three more I had that were not checked for some reason.I will list the checked cards first:525,528,531,546,547,549,553,557,561,568,571, 586,587,589,592&598.The three I recall having but are unchecked:544,583,&591.If this checklist is included that is 20 cards total(which would equal 4 packs).I speak of these cards because I am really surprised how many SP's or difficult ones I had out of such a small sample.I always wondered about the true rarity of some of these.

I am hoping some of this new info may sometime answer some questions.
As I stated earlier most of my collection was lost or thrown away.Probably in the late 60's. I found the remains in '87 or'88. I had Gary Bell(525),Dave Roberts(571)& Tigers Team(583)left over.And the checklist!
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  #112  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:37 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

Anyone wish to hazard a guess about the adjacent cards for this one? Both top & right side1966_562_1.jpg 556.JPG
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  #113  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:46 PM
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Above Snyder must be a card with a purple rookie banner, as that banner color is only at the top left
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  #114  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:52 PM
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And for posterity, here is the image of the eBay lot that Bill mentioned a few posts above:
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  #115  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:21 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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so above Snyder is 568 (A's rookies) and to the right is Pena (559): same as what was known.
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  #116  
Old 06-30-2020, 03:45 PM
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Incredible work fellas! As one who struggled and finally completed 66 set this is an awesome thread!
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  #117  
Old 06-30-2020, 04:10 PM
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Nevermind
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  #118  
Old 06-30-2020, 05:46 PM
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

Here is a McLain with, I believe, 568 A's rookies above it.1966-topps-denny-mclain-540-vgex-oc_1_f185020713ba42b1daef08fe9526d301.jpg
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  #119  
Old 06-30-2020, 05:53 PM
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568 on top of both Snyder and McClain on different parts of the sheet. Several new pieces a day, we'll have the full sheet recreated by next week at this rate! I did not have nearly so much luck showering eBay and COMC the last few days
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  #120  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:10 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

A quick summary of what I understand about the 1966 7th series rows, based on the material shown so far.

We know there are seven unique rows, headed by 554, 555, 544, 585, 594, 557, and 591 (i.e., column 1).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 2 (568, 562, 565, 530, 535, 588, 540).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 3 (584, 559, 547, 560, 575, 545, 567).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 4 (581, 564, 546, 571, 580, 526, 527).

We also know all 7 cards in column 5 (524, 561, x1, x2, x3, 589, 577) where x1, x2, and x3 represent 550, 525, and 542 but we don't as yet know which row those last three cards are in. We do know that at some point in the sheet 561 is above 525, 525 is above 542, and 542 is above 589.

For column 6, we only know 5 out of the 7 cards (558, 593, 596, 538, 533), and we do not know which rows two of those cards are in (538, 533).

There is also more info available based on examination of miscuts such as:
a. 598 being above 595,
b. 597,592, and 549 are in the same row,
c. 532 & 552 are in same row
d. 583 is in same row as 569 and is also above 523 at some point in the sheet.
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  #121  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:14 PM
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Above McLain might also be 588. Hard for me to tell the difference.
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  #122  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026 View Post
A quick summary of what I understand about the 1966 7th series rows, based on the material shown so far.

We know there are seven unique rows, headed by 554, 555, 544, 585, 594, 557, and 591 (i.e., column 1).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 2 (568, 562, 565, 530, 535, 588, 540).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 3 (584, 559, 547, 560, 575, 545, 567).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 4 (581, 564, 546, 571, 580, 526, 527).

We also know all 7 cards in column 5 (524, 561, x1, x2, x3, 589, 577) where x1, x2, and x3 represent 550, 525, and 542 but we don't as yet know which row those last three cards are in. We do know that at some point in the sheet 561 is above 525, 525 is above 542, and 542 is above 589.

For column 6, we only know 5 out of the 7 cards (558, 593, 596, 538, 533), and we do not know which rows two of those cards are in (538, 533).

There is also more info available based on examination of miscuts such as:
a. 598 being above 595,
b. 597,592, and 549 are in the same row,
c. 532 & 552 are in same row
d. 583 is in same row as 569 and is also above 523 at some point in the sheet.
Thank you for keeping my original row summary updated and making this column one! I've forwarded this thread to a few collectors I know who aren't on forums and have full 66 runs, hopefully will score a few more photos to add to our knowledge
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  #123  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:24 PM
mikemb mikemb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026 View Post
Above McLain might also be 588. Hard for me to tell the difference.
I think it is 588, not 568.

Mike
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  #124  
Old 06-30-2020, 06:43 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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erratum: 542 is above 550, not 589
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  #125  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevvyg1026 View Post
A quick summary of what I understand about the 1966 7th series rows, based on the material shown so far.

We know there are seven unique rows, headed by 554, 555, 544, 585, 594, 557, and 591 (i.e., column 1).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 2 (568, 562, 565, 530, 535, 588, 540).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 3 (584, 559, 547, 560, 575, 545, 567).

We know all 7 unique cards and their individual rows for column 4 (581, 564, 546, 571, 580, 526, 527).

We also know all 7 cards in column 5 (524, 561, x1, x2, x3, 589, 577) where x1, x2, and x3 represent 550, 525, and 542 but we don't as yet know which row those last three cards are in. We do know that at some point in the sheet 561 is above 525, 525 is above 542, and 542 is above 589.

For column 6, we only know 5 out of the 7 cards (558, 593, 596, 538, 533), and we do not know which rows two of those cards are in (538, 533).

There is also more info available based on examination of miscuts such as:
a. 598 being above 595,
b. 597,592, and 549 are in the same row,
c. 532 & 552 are in same row
d. 583 is in same row as 569 and is also above 523 at some point in the sheet.
Great job, in column 5 x1 has to be 525 if it is on top of 542 and x3 has to be 550 if below 542 (x2). Am I right? I'm going to take my actual cards today and look over this puzzle placing them out, the checklist is still open at the end of column 11. Which one though? w.Sox or White sox?
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  #126  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:13 AM
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Great job, in column 5 x1 has to be 525 if it is on top of 542 and x3 has to be 550 if below 542 (x2). Am I right? I'm going to take my actual cards today and look over this puzzle placing them out, the checklist is still open at the end of column 11. Which one though? w.Sox or White sox?
If we know that mccovey is in the 5th position on the 5th column, then the mccovey strip extends out into column 6,7,8 from there and if adair is in the 6th column then we know what is below adair now.
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  #127  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:08 AM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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I believe the 7th series checklist was the W. Sox version while the White Sox version was printed as part of the 6th series. I base this on two somewhat flimsy pieces of evidence. First, the White Sox version appears to be available more frequently (so appears to have been printed in higher quantity) and 2nd, I have found multiple White Sox versions checked only up to #522, but not seen that on a W.Sox version.
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  #128  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:20 AM
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That is my thinking as well. It would be great if we could find a McCovey with B. Williams to its left, or vice versa so we could confirm that the 4-card McCovey strip is in the same row as Salmon thru Williams (which is what I suspect).

My thinking goes like this:
row A - headed by Northrup
row B - headed by Perranowski
row C - headed by Hoerner rookie
row D - headed by Taylor
row E - headed by Salmon
row F - headed by Mantilla
row G - headed by Shirley/Jackson

Then the first sheet pattern would look like: A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E which is identical to what was used in 1965 (both 5th series & 7th series) and 1967 (7th series).

The 2nd half-sheet is still unknown but could look like: B, C, A, F, G, B, C, D, E, A, F, G. This puts 533 in row C, column 6, and puts it on top of 558 at one place on the sheet.
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  #129  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:58 AM
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517 has to be on the right edge of a row that has mainly or all non-sp. The F and G rows would imply that there are 22 true sp's. Now this again calls into question what are the sp's? some of our sheet pattern has supposed sps on the same row as non sps. if we take a leap that rows f and g are true sp's, what of the unplaced cards are assumed sp's that would fit on f and g. the checklist 517 has to be on the end of row e.

billp
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  #130  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post
517 has to be on the right edge of a row that has mainly or all non-sp. The F and G rows would imply that there are 22 true sp's. Now this again calls into question what are the sp's? some of our sheet pattern has supposed sps on the same row as non sps. if we take a leap that rows f and g are true sp's, what of the unplaced cards are assumed sp's that would fit on f and g. the checklist 517 has to be on the end of row e.

billp
If the pattern is correct A B and C are overprinted
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  #131  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
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If the pattern is correct A B and C are overprinted
Just based on the cards in each row, my guess is A, D and E but that's based on perception. Whatever rows have 523, 560,572, and 573, to name a few are much more common than others.
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  #132  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
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If we know that mccovey is in the 5th position on the 5th column, then the mccovey strip extends out into column 6,7,8 from there and if adair is in the 6th column then we know what is below adair now.
I'm laying out all the clues that we have and I think that I have discovered that the miscut adair I found that is above red sox rookies 558 is in an additional row above the Northrup row. Reasoning is that adair is next to mccovey who is below smith who is below bell who is below coleman who is below 534. 558 is next to 534 so the miscut adair has to be in a row above that. Bottom line is on 1 sheet the row with adair in it (salmon row) is double printed.
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  #133  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoran19 View Post
will post all i got. These two partials go together, too lazy to cut and paste them together LOL. The 3 pic. extends the Dick Egan and CHI CHI rows to the right

Attachment 354645


Attachment 354646
This 8 card sheet would imply that olivo (in the mantilla row) is below Egan (in the northrup row), but that again doesnt line up with our sequence of the far left card in the 7 rows. So this sheet must be a clue for the other 4 rows on a possible 11 row sheet. Or else, this 8 card cut came from a separate run of 8 card blocks produced separately.
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  #134  
Old 07-01-2020, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoran19 View Post
Tony Martinez continuation to the right with alt. configuration of two cards below him. In total the partials show 44 different cards i think. JOhn
Same with this 12 card block. If the Northrup row is above the mantilla row then these 2 8 and 12 card sheets fit, but we know that the northrup row is above the Perranoski row,
So these have to be separate blocks of a sheet.
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  #135  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:21 PM
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Same with this 12 card block. If the Northrup row is above the mantilla row then these 2 8 and 12 card sheets fit, but we know that the northrup row is above the Perranoski row,
So these have to be separate blocks of a sheet.
Ok, last post for the afternoon on this (I promise), very interesting stuff though. I think from all the input I believe this is the row sequence:
A - Northrup
B - Taylor
C - Salmon
A - Northrup
D - Perranoski
E - Hoerner
B - Taylor
C - Salmon
A - Northrup
F - Mantilla
g - Jackson/Shirley on the bottom corner and open to damage etc.

This sequence includes the input of the 8 card and 12 card sheets and what we know from the miscuts that have been researched.

Other tidbits: Tigers Team/McFarlane has to be in the Hoerner row, so does Perry. That puts Sadowski and Jackson in the taylor row s well.
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  #136  
Old 07-01-2020, 12:42 PM
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Ok, last post for the afternoon on this (I promise),
No! Keep ostimg. This is a great thread.

I looked at all my 66 high numbers and no miscuts. First time I wish I had some.

Mike
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  #137  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:14 PM
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Ok, last post for the afternoon on this (I promise), very interesting stuff though. I think from all the input I believe this is the row sequence:

E - Hoerner
B - Taylor
I have a scan of a miscut Jimmy Piersall with what I am positive is a sliver of the top of the Dick Green under it but I was hesitant to post it, but it now makes sense with your sequence so I will post it tonight.
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  #138  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:29 PM
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No! Keep ostimg. This is a great thread.

I looked at all my 66 high numbers and no miscuts. First time I wish I had some.

Mike
Thx Mike, others have done more than me I just had some time to go over all the threads. One takeaway is that 550 Mccovery is not an sp. 554 northrup is also not an sp. 563 twins rookies is also 562 snyder and via recent pricing these last 2 make sense. Mccovey pricing may just be star power.
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  #139  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
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Thx Mike, others have done more than me I just had some time to go over all the threads. One takeaway is that 550 Mccovery is not an sp. 554 northrup is also not an sp. 563 twins rookies is also 562 snyder and via recent pricing these last 2 make sense. Mccovey pricing may just be star power.
This seems to be the case. Snyder used to be considered a SP but in recent years has had that designation removed in most checklists and guides. Looks like the original judgement was probably correct for him, though the 90's guides used to seem to think there were different tiers of SP'ing as well that I don't think is true at all, and which I think the miscuts and partial blocks we've found in this thread indicate.

Building most of my set in the Bay Area via card shows c. 2001-2005, McCovey sure seemed tough, and Perry was the #1 to get. Probably local bias on the McCovey front; I do suspect we will find Perry is a probable SP but not to the overhyped levels 598 and 591's reputations suggest...

This has become a fantastic thread, thank you all. I heard from 3 more lower grade set collectors who report nothing but a single Coleman miscut that "might be Chance" in their stacks; fitting my card earlier and the other one that I think Cliff posted.
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  #140  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:05 PM
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When I ran across this miscut 1966 Jimmy Piersall I compared the sliver to every card from 523 to 598 and concluded that it could only be Dick Green, but I was hesitant to post it out of fear of doubt. But after seeing the proposed layout of the sheet and seeing that Piersall is projected to be on the row above the row with Dick Green I figured it would be safe to throw it out there.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 66 piersall.jpg (38.6 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg 66 piersall 3.jpg (7.4 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg 66 d green.jpg (6.2 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg 66 d green 2.jpg (54.2 KB, 67 views)
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  #141  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:11 PM
BillP BillP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
When I ran across this miscut 1966 Jimmy Piersall I compared the sliver to every card from 523 to 598 and concluded that it could only be Dick Green, but I was hesitant to post it out of fear of doubt. But after seeing the proposed layout of the sheet and seeing that Piersall is projected to be on the row above the row with Dick Green I figured it would be safe to throw it out there.
Great, i think we are about 5 miscuts from solving this.
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  #142  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:15 PM
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But that sliver doesn't show the black lined border. And that little area of white doesn't seem to match Green's top either. Is there any other possible card it could be? Could it be extraneous stuff at the very bottom of the print sheet?
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  #143  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:32 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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I believe that the checklist would be on a row that was short printed, since it was previously printed in the last series as well. In addition, for this printing, it is entirely possible that four rows were printed 3x each (the SPs) and three rows printed 4x each, so there would be 43 SPs (44 - checklist) but they are only mildly short printed.

Of course, if the pattern on the 2nd half sheet is different than that described above (i.e., 7th series 1967), then there might only be 11 or 22 real SPs. Until that pattern can be established, we won't know.
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  #144  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:38 PM
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The lack of the black line on Piersall makes me think the color there is actually part of the multi color stripe on the bottom of many uncut sheets used to test the ink colors if something goes wrong on a sheet. IF it's this, and not Green, that is still a very helpful clue.
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  #145  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:45 PM
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Is this a missing link or is it already known?
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File Type: jpg 66 mccovey 1.jpg (73.1 KB, 69 views)
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  #146  
Old 07-01-2020, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
Is this a missing link or is it already known?
I think this is new; we know McCovey to the right (McCovey-Adair-O's Rookies-Franks), but were not sure which row precisely that strip fit into. It would appear the card next to him, based off what is know and still a ?, is probably 580 Williams, placing the McCovey strip in the row headed by 594 Salmon, that is known until it ended part way at 580 Williams

Somebody correct me if I mixed up my graph over here lol
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  #147  
Old 07-01-2020, 06:14 PM
Kevvyg1026 Kevvyg1026 is offline
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Default 1966 high # miscuts

This is awesome. McCovey is the 5th card in a row and must be next to either Siebler, Roberts, or B. Williams. This appears to establish that his card is next to Williams and is therefore in the row with Salmon, Davis, Wilson, and Williams.
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  #148  
Old 07-01-2020, 07:38 PM
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I think it can be stated a fact that Davis, McCovey, Williams not Adair are short prints at all now.
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  #149  
Old 07-01-2020, 08:12 PM
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i don't think any card on the salmon row is an sp. the star power factor made them sp. the mccovey to the right of williams fits into my early today scheme of the sheet. thx, keep the miscuts coming from wherever. how about a miscut checklist.....
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  #150  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post
how about a miscut checklist.....
So close.
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File Type: jpg 66 checklist 1.jpg (80.4 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg 66 checklist 2.jpg (80.8 KB, 64 views)
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