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  #1  
Old 09-12-2020, 01:53 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
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Default Ebay reneger report!

So this Ebayer sends me a low ball offer on a big ticket item. I decide to accept it. Later he sends me a message "Sorry, I changed my mind". Already added him to my blocked bidders list. His Ebay id is:

berk_3617
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2020, 02:12 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
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I've had that happen a couple times to me also. I also get the one's where they say they don't remember making the offer. There's always going to be a small percentage of "Insert Your Favorite Word Here" when dealing with the public, especially online.
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Old 09-12-2020, 02:28 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Yep - well aware

Been doing this long enough - just putting his ID out there to prevent other Net 54'ers who choose to block him from dealing with the same BS.

The offer and his change of mind all happened within about 12 hours.
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2020, 03:41 PM
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Just curious, was it one of those offers that ebay records? If so, isn't the person that made the offer which is accepted by the seller the same as winning the auction? For example,item description indicates "or best offer". If the offer is accepted, then doesn't that indicate there's an agreement to buy?
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2020, 04:28 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fred View Post
Just curious, was it one of those offers that ebay records? If so, isn't the person that made the offer which is accepted by the seller the same as winning the auction? For example,item description indicates "or best offer". If the offer is accepted, then doesn't that indicate there's an agreement to buy?
But Ebay is so buyer supportive and seller unsuportive that the buyer can still "change their mind" - Ebay actually has that listed as a reason to cancel a transaction!!! Someone really needs to build a new auction site with elements of the "old days" of Ebay and a much more balanced platform between buyers and sellers.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2020, 05:13 PM
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Even if you could force the buyer to pay and complete the transaction having it end with a not as described return and also being out shipping costs would probably be your best case scenario. Blocking and moving on seems to be the best option to me.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2020, 07:35 PM
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I haven't sold anything on fleabay in a while and I pay for what I win so I'm a little ignorant here.

Does this mean that you can win an auction on fleabay and then decide that you don't want it (reneg) and there are no consequences from fleabay?

There's a thread about a new TPG. Seems like the hobby could use a new DIY auction site that doesn't put up with BS.
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2020, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Fred View Post
I haven't sold anything on fleabay in a while and I pay for what I win so I'm a little ignorant here.

Does this mean that you can win an auction on fleabay and then decide that you don't want it (reneg) and there are no consequences from fleabay?

There's a thread about a new TPG. Seems like the hobby could use a new DIY auction site that doesn't put up with BS.
If the buyer changes his mind and the seller states in his listing that he does not accept returns, then the seller can deny the buyers request. Just read it in ebays rules for buyers who changed their minds
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Old 09-12-2020, 09:14 PM
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Thank you, Howard!
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  #10  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:29 PM
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Generally speaking, if a buyer doesn't want to pay, they won't pay. You can go though the unpaid item process to cancel out the transaction and get your fees back, in which case eBay gives the buyer an "unpaid item strike," but they will never MAKE a buyer pay. It's possible that a habitual reneger may eventually get booted, but that is of little consolation to the jilted sellers they stiffed along the way.
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  #11  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cammb View Post
If the buyer changes his mind and the seller states in his listing that he does not accept returns, then the seller can deny the buyers request. Just read it in ebays rules for buyers who changed their minds
True but if sellers force buyers to pay for an item, they run the risk of having the buyer damage the item and file a "item not as described" claim, which a buyer will win the vast majority of the time. It does not matter if sellers accept returns or not. Its just best to cancel the order, block the buyer and move on.

Last edited by Jim65; 09-13-2020 at 04:45 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:20 AM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
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I have a similar issue right now. I purchased a box of Ben Baller Topps Chrome through my Montgomery 582 account. I listed it after Topps confirmed. The box sells and the Buyer pays for the box. The day Topps started shipping (Friday) I get a message that the buyer wants to cancel the sale because he cannot wait any longer. I check and prices for the box dropped about $100. So the buyer asks to cancel the sale because he changed his mind. I deny the request and I have listed that I dont accept returns. Ebay closed the request. Then the buyer files a non recipt claim. I will get the box today and plan on shipping it out same day. Now according to Ebay rules he already had his shot at asking for a return. So in theory I should be safe to ship this and not expect him to damage box and ask for return. What upsets me most is this guy has 3,000+ Feedback and deals in this stuff all the time. I still haven't decided what I will do when box arrives later. I dont want anyone damaging an expensive $750 box of cards. But what happened to living up to your word?
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  #13  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
I have a similar issue right now. I purchased a box of Ben Baller Topps Chrome through my Montgomery 582 account. I listed it after Topps confirmed. The box sells and the Buyer pays for the box. The day Topps started shipping (Friday) I get a message that the buyer wants to cancel the sale because he cannot wait any longer. I check and prices for the box dropped about $100. So the buyer asks to cancel the sale because he changed his mind. I deny the request and I have listed that I dont accept returns. Ebay closed the request. Then the buyer files a non recipt claim. I will get the box today and plan on shipping it out same day. Now according to Ebay rules he already had his shot at asking for a return. So in theory I should be safe to ship this and not expect him to damage box and ask for return. What upsets me most is this guy has 3,000+ Feedback and deals in this stuff all the time. I still haven't decided what I will do when box arrives later. I dont want anyone damaging an expensive $750 box of cards. But what happened to living up to your word?
Remember, he can also file a claim with PayPal or his credit card company or bank. You should definitely insure it and pay for Signature Required just to cover yourself.
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  #14  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:43 AM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default The one I sold wasn't paid for yet.

It also was a vintage item not moving in price over a week or two (although these days.....). No way was chancing "forcing" him to pay for it - Ebay has shown time and again how much they care about buyers and how little about sellers. I don't trust for a moment it would have ended well for me. I hope your situation works out in your favor Jonathan.
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  #15  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:47 AM
Mark17 Mark17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
I have a similar issue right now. I purchased a box of Ben Baller Topps Chrome through my Montgomery 582 account. I listed it after Topps confirmed. The box sells and the Buyer pays for the box. The day Topps started shipping (Friday) I get a message that the buyer wants to cancel the sale because he cannot wait any longer. I check and prices for the box dropped about $100. So the buyer asks to cancel the sale because he changed his mind. I deny the request and I have listed that I dont accept returns. Ebay closed the request. Then the buyer files a non recipt claim. I will get the box today and plan on shipping it out same day. Now according to Ebay rules he already had his shot at asking for a return. So in theory I should be safe to ship this and not expect him to damage box and ask for return. What upsets me most is this guy has 3,000+ Feedback and deals in this stuff all the time. I still haven't decided what I will do when box arrives later. I dont want anyone damaging an expensive $750 box of cards. But what happened to living up to your word?
So you sold him something you didn't have in hand - as of your post, you still don't have it. Isn't there an ebay rule against selling things and accepting payment when you don't actually have the item?

What if it gets damaged or lost on the way to you?
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  #16  
Old 09-14-2020, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark17 View Post
So you sold him something you didn't have in hand - as of your post, you still don't have it. Isn't there an ebay rule against selling things and accepting payment when you don't actually have the item?

What if it gets damaged or lost on the way to you?
As long as its clearly stated in the title and description that its a Pre-sale, he's OK.

The flip side is some sellers Pre-sell then cancel orders when resale prices go up. The Modern card market is way too volatile.
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2020, 11:18 AM
bigfanNY bigfanNY is offline
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What would happen if box was damaged on its way to me....??
Well I would contact buyer and offer a refund or if he wanted to wait for the box until after I worked things out with Topps he could. If I could not do something I said then 100% I would happily offer a full refund. I have 100% positive feed back (800+) over 11 years. So I am very customer centric. And if this was a guy with 20 feedback I would refund and move on.
Of course I listed this as a pre sale of a confirmed order. And the buyer messaged me the day he bought it asking when box would ship and I told him Topps told me it would ship week of September 11th. And although I am here venting I know that shipping the box is a risk I am better off not taking. The more times I read this the clearer that message comes through. Still sad to watch someine sell their reputation for $100.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2020, 12:14 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
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Default Ebay user id?

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Originally Posted by bigfanNY View Post
What would happen if box was damaged on its way to me....??
Well I would contact buyer and offer a refund or if he wanted to wait for the box until after I worked things out with Topps he could. If I could not do something I said then 100% I would happily offer a full refund. I have 100% positive feed back (800+) over 11 years. So I am very customer centric. And if this was a guy with 20 feedback I would refund and move on.
Of course I listed this as a pre sale of a confirmed order. And the buyer messaged me the day he bought it asking when box would ship and I told him Topps told me it would ship week of September 11th. And although I am here venting I know that shipping the box is a risk I am better off not taking. The more times I read this the clearer that message comes through. Still sad to watch someine sell their reputation for $100.
What is their Ebay user id?
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2020, 12:22 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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. already asked
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Old 09-14-2020, 06:15 PM
FrankWakefield FrankWakefield is offline
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From the other side of the coin....

I bid something in at say $120 and I think I've gotten a great deal, I instantly pay... only to get a message a day later saying "sorry, I can't find that card anywhere... ." I've gotten that several times. Mostly, I believe them. A couple of times I've wondered if they got a message right after the listing ends saying that someone meant to bid$350.... and the card is then bought out from under me.

Another annoyance is what I consider hostage feedback. Once I've paid and provided an address, I've done all that I must do, the seller should enter feedback. For a seller to say he'll leave feedback after I have seems BS to me.

Absent a good reason to the contrary, a buyer should honor his offers. I agree with that sentiment.

One more thing. Whales. The BIG bidder/buyers will sometimes win something along with other stuff, the pass on the something and only pay for the other stuff. The Auction guys allow that, so as not to piss off the Whale. Fine if you had consigned 'other stuff', not fine if you had consigned the 'something'. Also, I've had Auction houses mention a delay in settling up with me because something I sold was bought by a Whale, who just hadn't gotten around to paying yet. Whales get to pay late; some Auction guys allow that to get more commission on sales. And because they want the Whales to return for the next auction.
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post
Another annoyance is what I consider hostage feedback. Once I've paid and provided an address, I've done all that I must do, the seller should enter feedback. For a seller to say he'll leave feedback after I have seems BS.
I think it would be horrible practice for a seller in the long run to provide feedback before receiving feedback or proof of delivery. Thinking this way is painting all buyers as yourself. Honestly as an exseller on eBay (because of shoddy buyers and no protection for sellers) a non payer was the least of my worries.

The seller risk starts at shipping, it can be people who state they never received, even with confirmation they can purposely damage items and demand a return for the item being misrepresented. As well as demand odd things like partial refunds by truly holding feedback hostage as buyers are the only party that can provide negative feedback. There are a million other scams also that leave the seller holding the bag at great loss.

I donít believe it would help their case with a judge, postmaster, eBay or PayPal if I as a seller had left glowing feedback on the transaction and then they pull this.
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  #22  
Old 09-15-2020, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post
From the other side of the coin....

I bid something in at say $120 and I think I've gotten a great deal, I instantly pay... only to get a message a day later saying "sorry, I can't find that card anywhere... ." I've gotten that several times. Mostly, I believe them. A couple of times I've wondered if they got a message right after the listing ends saying that someone meant to bid$350.... and the card is then bought out from under me.
This has happened with me as a seller 3 times this past year (have sold hundreds of items). 2 of them I later found, contacted the original seller and completed the transactions, the 3rd I haven't found. I don't doubt that the scenario you laid out with contact and a higher offer happens and I suspect some sellers are swayed. I like to think that most sellers have more integrity than that. I know I do. How it has happened on my ned - 1) I just misplaced the item, I have created a "listings staging" area to help prevent this from happening, 2) I accidentally "relist" something that I had already sold - this is rare, but possible (for me at least).

Quote:

One more thing. Whales. The BIG bidder/buyers will sometimes win something along with other stuff, the pass on the something and only pay for the other stuff. The Auction guys allow that, so as not to piss off the Whale. Fine if you had consigned 'other stuff', not fine if you had consigned the 'something'. Also, I've had Auction houses mention a delay in settling up with me because something I sold was bought by a Whale, who just hadn't gotten around to paying yet. Whales get to pay late; some Auction guys allow that to get more commission on sales. And because they want the Whales to return for the next auction.
This seems like it would apply to a non Ebay auction.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2020, 07:16 AM
Huysmans Huysmans is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWakefield View Post
From the other side of the coin....

I bid something in at say $120 and I think I've gotten a great deal, I instantly pay... only to get a message a day later saying "sorry, I can't find that card anywhere... ." I've gotten that several times. Mostly, I believe them. A couple of times I've wondered if they got a message right after the listing ends saying that someone meant to bid$350.... and the card is then bought out from under me.

Another annoyance is what I consider hostage feedback. Once I've paid and provided an address, I've done all that I must do, the seller should enter feedback. For a seller to say he'll leave feedback after I have seems BS to me.

Absent a good reason to the contrary, a buyer should honor his offers. I agree with that sentiment.

One more thing. Whales. The BIG bidder/buyers will sometimes win something along with other stuff, the pass on the something and only pay for the other stuff. The Auction guys allow that, so as not to piss off the Whale. Fine if you had consigned 'other stuff', not fine if you had consigned the 'something'. Also, I've had Auction houses mention a delay in settling up with me because something I sold was bought by a Whale, who just hadn't gotten around to paying yet. Whales get to pay late; some Auction guys allow that to get more commission on sales. And because they want the Whales to return for the next auction.
I completely agree. I did my part by buying and then paying for an item. Feedback should be left at THIS point by the seller. What happens during shipping is completely irrelevant to my part of the transaction.

If it's not left by the seller at this point, of which there is no legitimate excuse not to.... I won't leave feedback and I won't buy from them again.
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2020, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinD View Post
I think it would be horrible practice for a seller in the long run to provide feedback before receiving feedback or proof of delivery. Thinking this way is painting all buyers as yourself. Honestly as an exseller on eBay (because of shoddy buyers and no protection for sellers) a non payer was the least of my worries.

The seller risk starts at shipping, it can be people who state they never received, even with confirmation they can purposely damage items and demand a return for the item being misrepresented. As well as demand odd things like partial refunds by truly holding feedback hostage as buyers are the only party that can provide negative feedback. There are a million other scams also that leave the seller holding the bag at great loss.

I donít believe it would help their case with a judge, postmaster, eBay or PayPal if I as a seller had left glowing feedback on the transaction and then they pull this.
Buyers who use PayPal have 180 days to file a claim, do you hold off giving feedback for that long?
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2020, 12:12 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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I have seen a significant uptick with non-paying bidders. Not sure why you bid on something, win it, and then ignore it. But that's exactly what's happening.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
Buyers who use PayPal have 180 days to file a claim, do you hold off giving feedback for that long?
I honestly donít sell on eBay anymore, I do not like the buyer risk quotient.

If they returned the sellers ability to negative feedback poor buyers so they can be found and blocked easier, I would start again no problem.
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:46 AM
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I buy quite a bit on eBay, and have never sold anything. When I started on eBay sellers in my view had the upper hand, and some abused it. Now the rules have totally changed to favor the buyers, and I realize there are many dishonest and crazy buyers who abuse the system. As strictly a buyer I do not favor the current system because it is too one sided and has driven many good sellers off eBay, which is not good for us honest buyers
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Old 09-16-2020, 09:52 AM
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I honestly donít sell on eBay anymore, I do not like the buyer risk quotient.

If they returned the sellers ability to negative feedback poor buyers so they can be found and blocked easier, I would start again no problem.
Thank the sellers who abused the feedback system by leaving retaliatory negative feedback when buyers did nothing wrong. Buyers were afraid to leave honest feedback. This system is far from perfect but its better than old system.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2020, 02:18 PM
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Thank the sellers who abused the feedback system by leaving retaliatory negative feedback when buyers did nothing wrong. Buyers were afraid to leave honest feedback. This system is far from perfect but its better than old system.
This is exactly it. If a seller scammed you, or blatantly lied about the condition of a card, etc., etc., the buyer was basically powerless to do anything about it or warn other users about the seller. If you left negative feedback when the situation dictated it, you would only be hurting yourself, because the retaliatory negative feedback would inevitably come your way.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Throttlesteer View Post
I have seen a significant uptick with non-paying bidders. Not sure why you bid on something, win it, and then ignore it. But that's exactly what's happening.
Sometimes to run up the comps if they are trying to or going to sell the same item...
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JollyElm View Post
This is exactly it. If a seller scammed you, or blatantly lied about the condition of a card, etc., etc., the buyer was basically powerless to do anything about it or warn other users about the seller. If you left negative feedback when the situation dictated it, you would only be hurting yourself, because the retaliatory negative feedback would inevitably come your way.
Very simply allow the feedback - allow a response and not count it toward the feedback rating %
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  #32  
Old 09-16-2020, 05:28 PM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
ja.ke liebe.rman
 
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
True but if sellers force buyers to pay for an item, they run the risk of having the buyer damage the item and file a "item not as described" claim, which a buyer will win the vast majority of the time. It does not matter if sellers accept returns or not. Its just best to cancel the order, block the buyer and move on.
right shouldnt live and die on one buyer..if there is only one buyer at or near your price ever that means your price is too high and anyone willing to pay it are going to have issues....
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  #33  
Old 09-16-2020, 06:23 PM
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Jim65 Jim65 is offline
Jam.es Braci.liano
 
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Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
Very simply allow the feedback - allow a response and not count it toward the feedback rating %
But it would still show in their feedback. I think some buyers would still be afraid of retaliatory feedback. Nothing should stop buyers from leaving honest feedback, positive or negative.
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2020, 09:19 PM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
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Default I agree

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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
But it would still show in their feedback. I think some buyers would still be afraid of retaliatory feedback. Nothing should stop buyers from leaving honest feedback, positive or negative.
I agree
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  #35  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:31 AM
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Jim65 Jim65 is offline
Jam.es Braci.liano
 
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Originally Posted by hcv123 View Post
I agree
Maybe the solution is to let sellers leave negative feedback for non paying buyers only. Maybe sellers can check a box to automatically leave generic feeback "buyer never paid" so if its retaliatory, the buyer can prove they paid right away and seller gets suspended for abusing the feedback system.
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  #36  
Old 09-18-2020, 07:47 AM
hcv123 hcv123 is offline
Howard Chasser
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Default great idea

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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
Maybe the solution is to let sellers leave negative feedback for non paying buyers only. Maybe sellers can check a box to automatically leave generic feeback "buyer never paid" so if its retaliatory, the buyer can prove they paid right away and seller gets suspended for abusing the feedback system.
great idea
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:26 AM
todeen todeen is offline
Tim Odeen
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Originally Posted by Jim65 View Post
Nothing should stop buyers from leaving honest feedback, positive or negative.
I leave neutral or negative feedback when a seller can't properly package an item (depending upon price of purchase). Some sellers don't put cardboard around photos which I thought was standard. When the picture gets bent and I leave neutral or negative feedback that they don't know how to package an item properly, they get in a tizzy about it. I think other buyers have a right to know their purchase runs a risk of getting damaged.
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