Brown Lenox ???

[JP]

Advertised as such, but I don't think so. I'd love to hear the opinions of others.

http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-BROWN-LENOX...#ht_2054wt_694

[BobbyVCP]

That looks like a good one to me..

[Bridwell]

Looks brown to me, JP.

Ron

[JP]

The only brown Lenox I've ever seen is definitively brown. That looks more like faded black...but I'm often wrong. Any way to be certain either way?

[JP]

http://www.oldjudge.com/archive/2004...eball/type/#84

Now this to me looks unquestionably more brown...

[frohme]

Sadly, I have to agree with Ron - it looks good to me.

I say sadly because that means there's yet another T206 Pirate I'll miss out on ... c'est la vie.

--
Mike

[JP]

Yet another reason that SGC is better than PSA. SGC slip would say which Lenox it was. It may not always be right, but at least they'd say it!

[fkw]

Dirty Black

[Captainhask]

Faded Black

[cfc1909]

the Lenox in question is brown, but I would still get a guarantee form the seller.
If the seller posted a black next to it, it would be easier to tell.

[Leon]

It might be brown but it looks faded black to me.

I like to go back to the "if you have to really guess, then it's not" type of answer. To me you shouldn't have to wonder if it's brown, if it's really brown.

[Mikehealer]

Here is the brown lenox in question and a black lenox, maybe this will help.
Sorry for the different sizes, but it should serve the purpose.

[cfc1909]

brown Lenox is different than the brown on Old Mill or Hindu-it is much darker on the examples I have seen and the one I own. It takes a black one next to a brown one for most collectors to see.

Oldringb.jpgLakeb.jpg

[Leon]

I am glad I don't collect color variations. This is just me, but none of those ones shown look brown to these old eyes. More power to you guys that plainly see the difference. I better stick with variations that are easier to see. Again, I am sure these things are the cat's meow for you die hard color variations collectors but to me they look like faded black.

BTW, I have seen some brown old mills that I felt were really brown, these just aren't some of them.....again, I am sure they are brown, I just can't tell.

PS, see how the brown looks in those 2 words, that is brown to me.....

[cfc1909]

Your reason-"if you have to really guess, then it's not" type of answer-is the reason brown Lenox was not discovered until the 80s.
It is so close if you don't have a black to compare to you probably would not see the brown unless you have owned brown or are used to seeing them.

I would think whoever noticed it first had a black one to compare and was able to clearly see a difference.

[Leon]

Hey Jim
All in a friendly debate, my friend.

When I look at the brown Old Mill you posted, right above, I don't see the "brown" in the large letters but the factory number at bottom appears to be a shade lighter and does in fact look brown (to me)!! I guess the deal with them is that some are different shades of brown and therefore more subtle than others. I guess if I were going to get one as a type I would want a sample that is as "brown" of one as possible.

[JP]

They all look black to me! Let's do a poll...

[caramelcard]

100 percent brown.

When you see one in person, you become a believer. Not faded. Not exposed to water or light. Just a different color ink.

Brown Old Mills are your more traditional brown color. These almost have some kind of burnt dark purple hue. (Man that sounded tough.)

Maybe we should call them Burnt Purple Hue Lenox?

Rob

[JP]

Actually, they all look like the brown bread at Outback Steakhouse...so I guess it is a shade of brown.

[Bridwell]

The other 3 or 4 I've seen have this same shade of brown.

It's not as obvious as an Old Mill, like Jim and Rob said.

Ron

[JP]

Is it just me or is the paper stock behind the wording a different color on the black and the brown? The supposed brown Lenox seems to have significantly darker background...

[Blunder19]

card looks faded black to me.. and putting it up next to a black still made it look faded black... I would need a guarantee from the seller that this would cross over into an SGC labeld Brown lenox slab before bidding.

but thats just me..

[DixieBaseball]

Card looks faded black. With acute 20/10 vision, of course.

[frohme]

I agree with Ron, Jim and Rob A on this one. This Brown Lenox look a lot like (some of) the T207 brown backs (which are to me).

While some are definitively brown - there is no question when you hold one in person and scans usually do it good justice - others are more obvious in person, but the scans not so much. The latter usually have darker backs but the "Burnt Purple Hue" mentioned earlier is pretty obvious.

I look at them in person and don't have the "if you have to ask" feeling, but have scanned them and said... really?

Just my 2 cents.
--
Mike

[cfc1909]

brown Old Mill is a lighter shade of brown than brown Lenox-once you know what you are looking at, you will be able to see the difference. It is much more tough to see the difference in Lenox-you may be fooled in a scan but no way in person.

Konetchyb.jpgLakeb.jpg



Cranstonb.jpgT206Revellebrownb.jpg

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Leon

BTW, I have seen some brown old mills that I felt were really brown, these just aren't some of them.....again, I am sure they are brown, I just can't tell.

Leon you own a brown Old Mill, your Mullaney multi brand back. Use that one for comparison. FWIW I believe the card in the listing is a brown Lenox. With that said I would still get a guarantee from the seller.

[Leon]

Tim- Good point on the brown Old Mill. I keep forgetting it's on the back of the ghost overprint card.

Jim- that bottom right one is what I have remembered seeing. Now that is brown. I guess the Lenox don't come like that....

[M's_Fan]

If I can't even really tell if its black or brown, and in fact the grading companies often can't tell either, it tells me that this isn't really a variation of any significance in the T206 set, if its a variation at all...

Ink and paper age and fade in many different ways over a hundred years, and this whole "brown ink" is just much ado about nothing in my opinion, but that's must my two cents, more power to you if this kind of thing gets you salivating...

[T206.org]

I didn't feel like the one on eBay was brown until I did this comparison - now I think it's the brownest one I've ever seen (but still not very brown, in my eyes, when compared to the other browns, like Old Mill).

The "color corrected" simply means being run through the Photoshop Auto-Tone, Auto-Contrast, and Auto-Color passes.

[Blunder19]

the pic is not working for me.. can you correct it so I can see the pic?

[Anthony S.]

It's a Taupe Lenox.

[E93]

Here is my example in the same scan as a black example.
JimB