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#1
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Ok, I'll first mention that this post is not too vintage, but both baseball and eBay related! Today I received the following email from eBay. |
#2
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Judge Dred
Watch out, pretty soon ebay will be telling us that only Collectors Universe can sell PSA graded cards. Ok, a bit of a stretch there. |
#3
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: PASJD
While I am not an intellectual property expert it sounds odd to me, akin to Rolex trying to prevent someone from selling a used Rolex. Rolex could stop you from selling a fake, but not a genuine one, I would imagine, unless you set yourself up as an unauthorized dealer. I would write them, in a polite way for starters, asking them exactly what it is they say you have infringed and asking them to cite you what statute they are relying on. |
#4
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
I did not display the Sports Card Heaven logo, however I did show a photo of their certificate of authenticity that was issued with the baseball. However, eBay rules STATE the COA must be shown!!! Also, reggiejackson.com is the one who complained, not Sports Card Heaven. Here is my take on it... I went to reggiejackson.com and they are the "official" supplier of reggie signed items. As you can imagine, this auction was cheaper than they sell reggie signed baseballs for. I think they view me as a competitor undercutting them although this is the ONLY reggie ball I own. In effect, I feel eBay is allowing reggie to have a "monopoly" on the market of his autgraphed material? |
#5
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: PASJD
Well clearly that is what Reggie.com is trying to do, but it only begs the question of their legal entitlement to do so. It is not at all clear to me what you might be "infringing"; they obviously have no patents, it isn't clear to me what might be copyrighted (Reggie's name?) and I don't see any trademarks involved. But then again this is not my area of expertise. |
#6
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
I should mention I have asked eBay and Reggiejackson.com to respond and inform me what law I have violated (or potentially am violating). This may seem like a waste of time for a ball worth less than $100, but its principle to me. We all buy items as an investment. If I want to sell something to afford something new, I should not be told I can't sell the item. If I buy a Ford, and after 10,000 miles, want to sell it to buy a Jaguar; Ford shouldn't be able to tell me "you can't sell that item because we own the rights to Ford". It's just not right, and eBay is letting it happen. |
#7
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Max Weder
Many sports athletes attempt to protect their intellectual property through "right of publicity" statutes or common law decisions. |
#8
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Max, you and I are on the same reasoning here. I think reggiejackson.com wants to eliminate me as a cheaper competitor. Unfortunately we didn't touch too much on IP rights in my Property Law class, but since I paid a nominal fee ($60) and never signed my righs to resale away, I can't understand this! Guess I'll have to wait to see what reggiejackson.com and eBay tell me! |
#9
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: hankron
I had a run in with Reggie Jackson's lawyer over a Jackson All-Star Game diamond ring I won from MastroNet. Without going into the details (it involved ownership), Jackson's lawyer was clearly in error and, when shown the facts, he dropped the issue. So, Jon, if you want to know if there's a precident of Jackson's legal advisors being wrong concerning the sale of Jackson memorabilia, there is. |
#10
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Max Weder
Jon |
#11
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Dan B
This just adds one more reason for me to dislike Reggie Jackson. |
#12
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Ok, Reggiejackson.com has contacted me. They have informed me that Reggie, himself, looked at the picture and determined the autograph to be fake. I politely emailed them back and said if that was the case, please send me an official email from your company (Sports World handles Reggie sales) stating Reggie has deemed the autograph unauthentic so I can receive a refund from Sports Card Heaven as I did pay a nominal fee to have this ball signed. I also mentioned that I will have the ball authenticated by PSA/DNA as well since I want a 2nd opinion. I quickly received a very rude email back stating that even if PSA/DNA authenticates the ball, I will have my auction pulled again because "Reggie's determination is the supreme determination and will stand in a court of law". I have since emailed Sports World back informing them that the most basic rules of Evidence state that if a party in a legal action does not stipulate to the authenticity or legitimacy of an item (whether it be a letter, voice exemplar, or in this case, a signed baseball), the complaining party can offer 3rd party expert testimony stating the questioned item is indeed, legitimate. The authenticity then becomes a question for the trier of fact to decide. |
#13
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Scott
If you check the link Max provided, you will see that Reggie Jackson's company is selling stuff on ebay this week - I'm sure they don't want the competition or any confusion from competing items. Following from Reggiejackson.com: |
#14
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Josh K.
I practice in NC which, like many states, has an unfair and deceptive trade practices statute. if scott is correct and reggie.com is attempting to prevent you from competing with their "garage sale" by relying on legal arguments they know to be meritless, it would seem that their actions may fall within the scope of such a statute. I would write back and casually mention that you are reviewing your legal options under the appropriate state statute. Of course, Im a labor and employment attorney, so what do I know about unfair and deceptive trade practices. |
#15
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Josh and everyone else - thanks for your tips and info. I appreciate everything and just am a little upset by all of this. I can tell my "legal jargon" emails are getting through to Sports World because the tone of their recent emails have again become polite and I am now being emailed by the "Director / CEO" instead of the original person who contacted me. I do feel you are all correct and they are using the law (or their relative lack of legal knowledge) to prevent me from selling Reggie signed items. What gets me the most is that in order to have eBay pull my auction, they stipulate "under penalty of perjury" that my item "violates their copyrights", which it clearly doesn't. If Reggie wanted to contest the validity of his signature, then he could have contacted eBay and had the auograph pulled as being fake - BUT THEY DID NOT DO THAT HERE. Also, it's awfully suspicious that Sports World is trying to recite rules of evidence to me but they are wrong. I am deciding whether or not to ask for the name of their attorney to speak directly to him/her. I may only be a 2L (2nd year law student), but I do well enough to know that they are wrong here and I have a clear case. It all comes down to how far I want to take this. It is probably one of those situations where I should just be the "bigger man" so to speak and walk away - but the question remains, where does this end? What eBay is allowing Reggie to do is deceptive and wrong. If I do decide to walk away, you better believe that reggiejackson.com is getting a long letter explaining why they should be thankful I don't want to fight this more! [Let's just say I have a very very nice summer associate position with a top New York City firm that asks us to take a case, either pro bono or personal, during our time this summer. Furthermore, the partner who hired me is a huge sports fanatic!] |
#16
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Paul
I agree with you that it is very suspicious that rj.com told ebay that your ball violates their intellectual property rights, but rj.com told you it is a fake. Perhaps ebay has a policy of pulling infringing items, but no policy of pulling fakes, so rj.com tried to fit a round peg into a square hole and told ebay a little fib. |
#17
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Josh K.
If it were me, I wouldnt walk away - but then I like a challenge. You could file a suit pretty cheaply and without all the headaches associated with with a typical case by filing in small claims. When I was in law school, I took a Legal Clinic for the Elderly course and sued a door to door salesmen (insert jokes here)and his company under NC's Unfair and Deceptive Trade statute in small claims court (you will need to file your own complaint rather than using the standard small claims form that most use) - it was reached very quickly and settled due to the presence of the the UDT claim (which provides treble damages to the prevailing plaintiff) - the magistrate was actually upset that it settled since, according to him, he never gets to hear such claims. This would put you on "equal footing" with reggie and company - just make sure your damages are within the jurisdictional limits. |
#18
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Kenny Cole
As is often true, I suspect its a money-bully thing. That's a pretty effective technique. I guess that if I were really committed to fighting that fight, I would suggest that once Reggie lets the verification get away, it is no longer his deal to fight. If you really wanted to get pissy (nothing mean intended), file a dec action and make Reggie show why you shouldn't be selling what you wanted to sell. You have a shot at fees, and what they get is bad pub. Just my thought. |
#19
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Scott
people might start thinking Reggie Jackson is an a*hole...wait...they already think that. |
#20
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Jon Canfield
Again, thanks for all you input and THANKS Net54 for letting me vent frustration (sure the auction was for only $60 but like I said, its still principle). I have emailed eBay's VeRO program with the following email... Basically, if I can show that reggiejackson.com abused the VeRO program, I would like to see eBay repremand Sports World (even if it just freakin email) and maybe an appology to me. However, if they want to fight - I'd consider. This would make a great topic for my short Law Review note. (PS - If any of you lawyers or legal fans out there want to read a decent 50 page Law Review note on the US Redefining "Torture" and the legal implications involved, shoot me an email! I assure you baseball cards pre-1930 are not mentioned at all, but still some good reading!) |
#21
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Richard Dwyer
What is Reggie smoking? Steroids? So much for being a role model. |
#22
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: jamie
On the Beckett message board, another poster had a similar problem with a Mantle ball. It was cancelled by Mantle's estate for the same reason- copyright infringement- this at least clears up some issues on that side. Just thought you'd want to know that RJ isn't the only one exploiting Ebay's policies. |
#23
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: warshawlaw
Specifically, a jackass. |
#24
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: sagard
If they are truly going to be auctioning off a bunch of items on Ebay they are certainly exposing themselves to some juvinile retaliation. |
#25
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: hankron
But it would be interesting if your ball was signed by Jackson under contract/being paid to sign by the company on your LOA. If the private signing was legitimate and Jackson was under contract to sign the balls, Jackson might be the one breaking the law by trying to prevent the balls from being sold. If that were the situation (not saying it is), it would at least make an interesting article. |
#26
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: jackgoodman
Please keep us updated on what happens. It affects all of us, in some manner. Thanks. |
#27
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: PASJD
I don't think Jon is well advised to bring a lawsuit where his damages are probably a few bucks at best (lost profits from sale of a single ball). Small claims court at best, or a nasty letter if he feels the need for vindication. Let's be realistic here. There is no antitrust claim unless one could make the improbable argument that Reggie Jackson autographed balls are constitute a separate, relevant product market. This seems unlikely to me. Plus where does Jon sue? Does blocking an ebay sale, or posting an ebay auction, confer personal jurisdiction over Reggie.com in Jon's home state? |
#28
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: warshawlaw
stating that certain actions through the net subject the seller to the personal jurisdiction of every court where the items are offered for sale. I had to litigate the issue once in Federal court, which is why my terms and conditions of sale on anything on ebay include a choice of law and venue clause as a condition of the bid. |
#29
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Mike Poland
CORNY WIT WARNING!!! |
#30
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: PASJD
I can see that for a corporate seller like amazon.com that does worldwide business through the net, but posting an ebay auction subjecting the seller to jurisdiction everywhere? I don't believe the law has progressed (deteriorated?) anywhere near that point. |
#31
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: Josh K.
I tend to agree with Adam re jurisdiction. I believe that the long arm statutes of most states are broad enough to haul someone into your jurisdiction when their unlawful acts caused you damage (regardless of how small). Further, it would be up to Reggie to challenge the jurisdiction - which of course will cost him money - the suit itself may be enough to force them to drop the issue. Finally, while damages may be small, if successful on an unfair trade practices claim you would typically be entitled to treble damages plus attorneys' fees and costs. Since Jon is a budding lawyer to be, Im sure he could take care of it himself, saving much in the way of fees should he lose. Economically speaking, there is not much risk. |
#32
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Adam, Hal, other attorneys, and everyone else - Quick Baseball Question Legal Related
Posted By: canjond
Just a quick update... eBay responded via a form letter! I have emailed them 3 times and all 3 times, I received identical letters from 3 different senders. It appears that they don't read what I send - but I never figured eBay would be much help anyway. As for jurisdictional issues, I would bring a claim under New York's UTD laws. I did a few searches and even though Nevada offers more in terms of treble damages, I would try and litigate in NY simply because I would hope for a default judgment. As for damages - if I prove the ball authentic via PSA/DNA, I can receive the value of the ball or $50, whichever is greater. Furthermore, NYS allows for $1000 in treble damages. So, it might be worth my while economically, especially because I'm pretty sure I can actually do this as an ind. study in law school and get class credit as well! (However an ind. study would require me to submit a joint appendix and so on; which may be excessive for a small claims court issue. Furthermore, not quite sure if I'm allowed to do an ind. study when I'm an "interested" party). I will keep you all up-to-date as to what happens. I also want to mention that the award, if any, I would receive would not be my motivation (although an extra bonus). If I decide to pursue a claim, it is simply on principle. This is totally unfair, especially in the way reggiejackson.com handled the situation. The emaisl they have sent me (especially the ones when they mistate basic rules of evidence) are comical. |
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