Cheatriots At It Again....

[pgellis]

Bill Belicheat and Shady Brady at it again. 11 of 12 balls were underinflated during Sunday's AFC Championship Game.

Anything to get an advantage.

Caught cheating again!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Bill Belicheat and Shady Brady at it again. 11 of 12 balls were underinflated during Sunday's AFC Championship Game.

Anything to get an advantage.

Caught cheating again!

Looks like that ball boy missed one.

...waiting for the Patriots apologists to chime in on this one.

[pgellis]

I think they held one back in case someone (officials) picked up on it, they can throw the "good ball" right into the mix and try to deceive further....

[CardboardCollector]

The cold can shrink your balls. 🏈

[vintagetoppsguy]

It obviously had no effect on the game (Colts just didn't come to play), but it does show the lengths the Patriots will go to in order to win.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by CardboardCollector

The cold can shrink your balls. ��

It was 51 degrees at kickoff. How come the Colts balls didn't deflate too?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by pgellis

It was 51 degrees at kickoff. How come the Colts balls didn't deflate too?

I think he was making a joke.

But, you are correct. I was just waiting for someone to blame the weather and I was going to say the same thing.

[Econteachert205]

Im a New England sports fan. To me it is the Red Sox first and everything else is a poor secondary diversion. At any rate I look at the Patriots and their fans, the real die hards, as a bit cultish. They arent particularly likable, but i do get a kick out of how indignant and crybabyish people get about their cheating. Actually watching people cry and gnash teeth about sports issues (outside of the red sox) is probably one of the funniest things going. But yeah, the Pats are pretty unlikable for the most part.

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Bill Belicheat and Shady Brady at it again. 11 of 12 balls were underinflated during Sunday's AFC Championship Game.

Anything to get an advantage.

Caught cheating again!

I love this guy. How about those Packers!

[pgellis]

How bout those Deflatriots !

[Econteachert205]

If the patriots were a card cheating technique would they be a black sharpie on a 71 topps? A trimmed card? A shill bid? Something else?

[Prof_Plum]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

If the patriots were a card cheating technique would they be a black sharpie on a 71 topps? A trimmed card? A shill bid? Something else?

To me, nothing nearly that heinous. Maybe soaking.

[pgellis]

AH HAHAHA!

Belicheat just threw Shady Brady under the bus!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Runscott]

Wow. Brady wants his footballs at 12.5 but couldn't feel that they were light?!? Yikes. This is going to blow up in their face.

[yanks12025]

Sorry but I gotta chime in here. Patriots fans or pretty much most of New England fans(mainly Red Sox and patriot fans) have to be the biggest hypocrites in all of sports. The patriots have been caught cheating not once but TWICE!!!!

11 of their 12 balls were deflated on purpose. It has already been proved by experts that the weather couldn't deflat them! So patriot fans, why don't you stop making stupid excuses for your team and admit they're cheaters. Really Bill or Tom should be suspended for the Super Bowl but the NFL is sweeping this whole thing under the rug till after the big game. No way should a investigation take two weeks, they just want to punish you guys after the game.


I really hope the patriots don't win the super bowl because it would be a joke to the NFL and to all America sports. Not sure how anyone can view Bill or Tom as a role model because they're nothing but liars and cheaters.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Lots of opinions being offered about how big and blatant a 2 psi difference is, etc, but wouldn't it be fun to do a blind psi test of footballs and see if people could actually easily identify a 11 psi ball, compared to a 12 or 13.

Ian, my comments as to whether or not 11 out of 12 balls could deflate that much naturally, weren't my own opinion.

There was an article in yesterday's Seattle Times where a woman who made 70 NFL balls a day for Wilson was interviewed. She worked there for 48 years. According to her, "When it leaves our factory, they may have trouble with a bladder every once in a while with losing some air, but when they have 11 out of 12 balls losing air, it's not Wilson's fault." The only way to remove that much air that quickly would be to put a needle in the valve and let the air seep out, said Kevin Murphy, who runs the American football division at Wilson. Wilson, he said, goes to great lengths to ensure the NFL balls do not leak, even in extreme heat or cold. Every ball has a special three-ply urethane bladder inside, and during production the balls are filled with 100 pounds of air pressure, then deflated to 13 pounds of pressure.

I think Brady stuck his foot in his mouth by repeatedly stating that he prefers 12.5, but that he can't tell the difference between 10.5 and 12.5. Perhaps the blind test you describe should be tried - you would think someone out there would have done that by now, just to draw attention to their blog.

[nolemmings]

Patriot-hating is not on most people's minds as much as the Pats fans would like to think. You love yourselves a lot more than others hate you.

Very well stated, and much more tactful than my comments (sorry Fred).

It's hard to believe that Troy Aikman, John Madden, Kurt Warner. et al. are all jealous of the Patriots' success or "hate" them for some reason when they state the quarterback had to know what was going on, and Mark Brunnell looked far more hurt than angry in saying he could not believe Tom Brady.

I'm still at a loss as to why they held those pressers at all. It is almost borderline hubris to think that they would put an end to the matter or even really slow the story's momentum, especially since Brady knew beforehand that his answers were going to be simple denial--denial that he had to believe his peers would find not credible, unless he truly thinks he is beyond public inquiry and potential scorn. A real head scratcher for me.

[GoldenAge50s]

Very well stated, and much more tactful than my comments (sorry Fred).

Not a problem Todd! I don't take internet chatter too personally no matter what is said, just wanted to put in my support for the Patriots regardless how others feel.

[Runscott]

Thanks Todd - tact is not normally my strong suit. Agreed on the reaction of ex-NFL qb's. Brunnell really did look hurt. I was also surprised at Aikman's response. As far as Brady's press conference attitude - if he is lying, then there is no other way to take it than that he feels he is beyond reproach. But look at ARod, McGwire, Braun, Lance Armstrong. All of these athletes seemingly should have known they would eventually be caught, and to us 'normal folks', honesty up-front was a no-brainer approach to the fix each was in. But do we have ANY examples of a pro athlete who has been truthful before the proof was shown? I can't think of s single one.

We discussed deflate-gate over pints at the pub last night and an old(er) geezer had the best comment: "some guy with the Pats carries a needle, pops it in and deflates the balls - how hard is that?" It made me wonder - how similar was the psi in the 11 balls? If pretty much exact it would lead you to believe that the equipment manager was a pro at this - pop in the needle for x seconds, move to the next one, etc. If not for Aikman and Brunnell's reactions, I would assume that it's so easy, and so beneficial to the teams, that more would be doing it.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Ian, my comments as to whether or not 11 out of 12 balls could deflate that much naturally, weren't my own opinion.

There was an article in yesterday's Seattle Times where a woman who made 70 NFL balls a day for Wilson was interviewed. She worked there for 48 years. According to her, "When it leaves our factory, they may have trouble with a bladder every once in a while with losing some air, but when they have 11 out of 12 balls losing air, it's not Wilson's fault." The only way to remove that much air that quickly would be to put a needle in the valve and let the air seep out, said Kevin Murphy, who runs the American football division at Wilson. Wilson, he said, goes to great lengths to ensure the NFL balls do not leak, even in extreme heat or cold. Every ball has a special three-ply urethane bladder inside, and during production the balls are filled with 100 pounds of air pressure, then deflated to 13 pounds of pressure.

I think Brady stuck his foot in his mouth by repeatedly stating that he prefers 12.5, but that he can't tell the difference between 10.5 and 12.5. Perhaps the blind test you describe should be tried - you would think someone out there would have done that by now, just to draw attention to their blog.

I in no way doubt someone let air out, and think it was most likely done per Brady's preference. I was just curious if people would be aware, to the touch, of the different pressures they're shouting about. Not even saying they wouldn't (though Huard quote was interesting), but could you pick an odd ball or two out of 24, or tell if all 12 were under inflated? I have always preferred a lightly under inflated ball, but have NO idea what psi they were ever inflated to. Footballs say- "inflate to 13 lbs", but never once have I seen a psi gauge on a ball pump, so I personally have little/no true point of reference. As an aside, if you want to feel a difference, hold some of the various college and HS that have been used over the years, on all other levels including major D-1. These ball variations have not set a tone of uniformity in football as a whole. The difference between the old Wilson 1001 and 1005 collegiate ball was crazy (it reminded me of the crazy -5, vs normal -3 metal bats used in college back then)... and Wilson is not the only game ball supplier.

I agree Brady's stated preference of 12.5 psi makes him look bad as he tries to deflect this... just as would Rodgers' known preference for highly inflated footballs if his were found to be over inflated. My guess would be Brady wants a little air let out in wet/cold weather. I still think this has been blown way way out of proportion, especially considering how all the custom ball prep (I'm sure often including softness or hardness based on inflation) has been a non issue, and has been "enforced" as such. As said, if the league wants to go the route of the "K" ball with game balls, and supply all game balls, then this sort of doctoring should be a big deal. Until then, I can't justify getting upset about something no one really cared about, or cared to enforce.

Oddly enough, my dad got me a college ball for my birthday years ago when I was in HS. I never even used it (was saving it until my old one was worn out) but within a year of so, the bladder had failed and it wouldn't hold air. I definitely don't think this is at all the case with the Pats, but know those things can go bad. Still have that ball stashed away.

[nolemmings]

This just gets crazier. Belichick Thursday: "I have no explanation for how these footballs could have been deflated". Today: "We have conducted an internal investigation and I have a scientific explanation". Really, why didn't you share that information Thursday, when you answered every question with "I've told you everything I know"? Why even have a presser Thursday if an investigation was about to be completed and you would then have your answer? Again, these are not pressers already scheduled to occur where the questioning turns to this subject--these are pressers that the Pats themselves called and orchestrated, giving carefully-crafted statements and essentially ducking follow-up questions. They look like buffoons.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

This just gets crazier. Belichick Thursday: "I have no explanation for how these footballs could have been deflated". Today: "We have conducted an internal investigation and I have a scientific explanation". Really, why didn't you share that information Thursday, when you answered every question with "I've told you everything I know"? Why even have a presser Thursday if an investigation was about to be completed and you would then have your answer? Again, these are not pressers already scheduled to occur where the questioning turns to this subject--these are pressers that the Pats themselves called and orchestrated, giving carefully-crafted statements and essentially ducking follow-up questions. They look like buffoons.

Todd, you just hate the Patriots. I'm so disappointed.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

This just gets crazier. Belichick Thursday: "I have no explanation for how these footballs could have been deflated". Today: "We have conducted an internal investigation and I have a scientific explanation". Really, why didn't you share that information Thursday, when you answered every question with "I've told you everything I know"? Why even have a presser Thursday if an investigation was about to be completed and you would then have your answer? Again, these are not pressers already scheduled to occur where the questioning turns to this subject--these are pressers that the Pats themselves called and orchestrated, giving carefully-crafted statements and essentially ducking follow-up questions. They look like buffoons.

Reinforces your earlier point, the response is worse than the crime.. And their response has been awkward to say the least. Saw bits of his presser today, I think saying they didn't have hands on balls from the time they were prepped/measured until game time. Like Scott said though, all you need is the needle to let air out.

Still, not at all upset with Pats if they did this, and deflate-gate is still stupid.

[freakhappy]

I'm sure this is getting blown up because it's the patriots and I get that....they've messed up before and it should be a bigger deal. My biggest issue is the haters that post their hatred...it's like they've been waiting for something to happen so they can excitedly jump out of their seats and point a finger at them. Believe me, they're getting punished and I can't see it being a light punishment. Robert Kraft should be embarrassed and hopefully this will be the last cheating scandal we hear from the pats.


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[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

I'm sure this is getting blown up because it's the patriots and I get that....they've messed up before and it should be a bigger deal. My biggest issue is the haters that post their hatred...it's like they've been waiting for something to happen so they can excitedly jump out of their seats and point a finger at them. Believe me, they're getting punished and I can't see it being a light punishment. Robert Kraft should be embarrassed and hopefully this will be the last cheating scandal we hear from the pats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This "hater" stuff sounds like crying. As I said before, you guys love yourselves a lot more than others hate you - I don't see the Patriots as important or special at all. If you didn't get caught cheating so often, no one would notice you any more than any other good team.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Runscott

This "hater" stuff sounds like crying. As I said before, you guys love yourselves a lot more than others hate you - I don't see the Patriots as important or special at all. If you didn't get caught cheating so often, no one would notice you any more than any other good team.

This. The Patriots ruined the legacy of their early 2000s teams with Spygate. Most of us had moved on. If it wasn't for Pats fans constantly trying to minimize Spygate, this issue would have died. Now the Pats are caught cheating again. It leaves us to wonder what other rules they have been breaking for the last 15 years?

This should have been the team to redeem Belichick and Brady. However, they have shown that they can't keep their noses clean. They will forever be associated with cheating alone.

Other teams have been as successful or more so. 60s Pack, 70s Steelers, 80s 49ers and 90's Cowboys. None of those teams received the negative reaction of the Pats. It's the cheating, not the winning. The Pats success is nothing we haven't seen before. It is the utter disregard for fair play.

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[itjclarke]

Wow, I've been busy writing my own novel, so didn't see yours until after.

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

"But what has the NFL really found? As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

Read that same column... my guess is no one will ever know what the other balls were because the refs don't really give a crap, and probably just topped them back up to spec. I doubt they take time to log the pressures.

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

So looks like Chris Mortensen's report may be wrong, just like the report about Jackson being one who noticed the ball was deflated. Sports journalism in this country is at an all-time low.

EXACTLY!! But he sure as hell did a good job creating a story and driving ratings for the foreseeable future, so am sure he'll be commended.

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

Funny how you mention teams that were successful and "None of those teams received the negative reaction of the Pats. It's the cheating, not the winning." Let's see here:

70's Steelers - Rampant steroid use

Broncos - Circumventing the salary cap during the late Elway years when they won 2 SBs; taping part of a 49ers walk-through practice in London in 2010

Late 90's 49ers - Circumventing the salary cap

90's Cowboys - Jimmy Johnson has admitted that videotaping coaches' signals was common practice and something he did although he felt it didn't help him at all.

Steelers - Cowher: “Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...act-of-spygate

I could list many more things, but I think that'll do.

Yes, yes, and yes.. all examples of things teams are willing to do. I'm the first to admit the Niners did some dirty stuff.. and separately, a whole hell of a lot of coke. Fans get such a small portal into the real world of pro football, so when they get little bits and pieces (often without full context) here and there, it looks terrible. However, most involved are pulling similar tricks. Re- Spygate, I had more issue because they were filming walk throughs/practices that were supposed to be closed, right? That said, I never thought they were the only ones doing this. I had also singled the Saints out for their Bountygate.. but bounties have been around forever, and am sure many teams and coaches have done this.

Bounties to hurt players are probably a little more serious than deflated balls... or is it just me that feels this way?

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

So often? Please tell me what you're referring to besides the Spygate issue.

You conveniently skipped the main point of my response, which is that nobody "hates' the Patriots - No one outside of Boston gives a shlt about them any more than any other team. We are discussing a current 'issue' - that's all. You are making it out as if discussing and giving opinions is not allowed until after the investigation. You're forgetting that you are participating in a DISCUSSION FORUM.

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

So often? Please tell me what you're referring to besides the Spygate issue.


They were filming something out in the wide open for anyone to see. Every person in the stadium could see those signals being given by the coach. The severe penalty wasn't because of the infraction itself. It was because they continued to do it after a memo went out to all teams by the league in 2006 telling them to stop filming coaches' signals. They were wrong for that and were punished accordingly. They won those SBs because they had dominant defenses, a HOF coach, and a HOF QB. You can't get a competitive advantage when other teams are doing what you're doing but just in a slightly less convenient way (have a scout in the stands or press box taking notes with pen and paper of the coaches' signals, which once again, are available to anyone in the stadium). There's a reason why the league passed a rule that allowed defensive players to have audio communication with their coaches via their helmets. Stealing signals was part of the game (and probably still is to a degree to this day), as has been acknowledged by many NFL coaches (see below for a couple examples).

Funny how you mention teams that were successful and "None of those teams received the negative reaction of the Pats. It's the cheating, not the winning." Let's see here:

70's Steelers - Rampant steroid use

Broncos - Circumventing the salary cap during the late Elway years when they won 2 SBs; taping part of a 49ers walk-through practice in London in 2010

Late 90's 49ers - Circumventing the salary cap

90's Cowboys - Jimmy Johnson has admitted that videotaping coaches' signals was common practice and something he did although he felt it didn't help him at all.

2006 Colts - pumping artificial crowd noise into the stadium when the Patriots were on offense during the 2006 AFC Championship game

Steelers - Cowher: “Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...act-of-spygate

I could list many more things, but I think that'll do.


Oh, and then there's this re: "DeflateGate" from Mike Florio today:

"But what has the NFL really found? As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...r-deflategate/

So looks like Chris Mortensen's report may be wrong, just like the report about Jackson being one who noticed the ball was deflated. Sports journalism in this country is at an all-time low. If they were indeed closer to 1 PSI below the 12.5 minimum requirement, Belichick's explanation he gave yesterday is certainly plausible. If it's proven they intentionally deflated the footballs, then they should be punished accordingly.

But hey, great job jumping to conclusions before having all of the facts by all of the ignorant people here. Bravo.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, delusional Patriots fan. You really don't understand the difference between watching signs and being able to film them, having a permanent record which you can used to figure out all their defenses? You can claim that it was dominant defense, but when you know what the other team is doing it is a huge advantage, it is cheating and is a major reason why the Pats won those 3 SBs. Fact, the Pats are the only SB champion to be sanctioned for cheating. You can try to justify it all you want, but the Pats are cheaters. They were cheating 2001-07 and they are still cheating today.

You complain about us discussing what the nfl has leaked. We can still discuss this and change our opinion if new info comes out. However, your mind is already closed. No matter what the nfl decides, you are going to try to argue away the fact that the Pats are cheaters. 7 years later you are still trying to argue away Spygate

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[Runscott]

I would add 'paranoid' and 'entitled' to "delusional patriots fans."

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I would add 'paranoid' and 'entitled' to "delusional patriots fans."

Come on, Scott...have you not read this thread lately? I'm not a Patriots fan, but the few on here have added some good info...you should read it instead of popping in and stirring the pot.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Come on, Scott...have you not read this thread lately? I'm not a Patriots fan, but the few on here have added some good info...you should read it instead of popping in and stirring the pot.

Look in the mirror and then say that again without blushing.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Look in the mirror and then say that again without blushing.

Scott...I'm a man, I don't blush


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[Runscott]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Scott...I'm a man, I don't blush


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike - I am proud of you that you are keeping tabs on this via your cell phone. It means you have a life. Me, on the other hand...

[Runscott]

Sherman never stops talking - his soundbytes aired the other night and was hilarious. He comes after guys unprovoked. Brady new that but still mouthed off. That's fine, but with Sherman you better back it up or be prepared to quietly take the backlash, which is what Brady wisely did.

[steve B]

At least people recognized the quote...........

Superbowl Sunday I might just have to have a beer from the "fire freddy" Mug I bought years ago. (Lets see who gets that one)

Steve B

[Runscott]

My favorite 'Sherman mouthing off' moment is when he mouthed off to gigantic Trent Williams and was then punched in the face. Sherman barely moved and started laughing. I'm thinking if Brady punched him it would have turned out differently.

Found it: Williams punches Richard Sherman

My understanding is that he didn't actually say "You mad bro?" Someone tweeted the infamous pic of him and Brady, along with that quote, and Sherman then adapted it.

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[RichardSimon]

Now they are saying an equipment guy vanished into a rest room with the game footballs. Right, the Pats found someone to fall on the sword.
And if you believe an equipment guy would deflate footballs without orders from the coach, then I have a deed to the Bunker Hill Monument to sell to you.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

It just keeps getting worse and worse for the anti-Patriots crowd.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...534771d1e3d792

I really love the hypocritical Pat fans. Please explain how the colts balls and Patriots backp balls were fine? Pat fans can never admit when they get caught cheating, they just make excuses after excuses. Yet if another team gets caught cheating, pat fans will be the first to boo and scream cheater at them. I'm sure you guys think Aaron Hernandez is innocent and probably want him back.

The cheaters will be punished after the super bowl with a fine and a draft pick taking away. Hopefully the Pats don't win because than the Super Bowl is tainted and it just shows kids that cheating is fine and you can make excuses to get away with it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

It just keeps getting worse and worse for the anti-Patriots crowd.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...534771d1e3d792

Questioning the Patriots' possible rules violation does not make one an "anti-Patriot", any more than you disagreeing with my comments makes you an "anti-runscott".

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

It just keeps getting worse and worse for the anti-Patriots crowd.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/201...534771d1e3d792

The article fails to mention how the Colts balls didn't lose pressure. What's your theory on that?

[freakhappy]

I thought this was pretty good

http://teamcoco.com/video/drew-brees...aWQiOjg3NDU0fQ


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[TUM301]

Had an EX that could bust balls better than ANY NFL`er, past or present. O U C H !!

[freakhappy]

Scott...I don't care about swaying anyone, but what I'm talking about is how this thread started and a few of the people continue to close their ears to what is being discussed...and for the most part, you aren't one of them I'm talking about.

[Runscott]

Fair enough.

Here's another angle for 'the atmosphere did it' guys: I located a photo last year of Ben Roethlisberger squeezing a ball to a point that it looked almost empty (during a play). Can't find it now, but I am surprised Patriot supporters haven't come up with a pile of such photos - it would certainly deflate the idea that, if anyone's doing anything, it's not limited to Brady.

I have to admit, if I had remembered that photo when deflate gate first started, I probably would have started out with a completely different mind-set, which can make a big difference.