My conversation with Lionel Carter

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Posted By: T206Collector

Shortly after I won Lionel Carter's Eddie Plank in the Mastro auction in April 2007, I sent him a letter asking him a few questions about where he got it. I worked through Doug Allen, President and Chief Operating Officeer at Mastro Auctions, to ensure that the letter got to Mr. Carter. Having gotten no response nearly 8 months later, I thought it might be time to call Mr. Carter myself and ask him a few questions about the Plank. He was more than happy to talk with me, and his comments were insightful and infused with his good humor.

With his gracious permission, T206Collector.com will be broadcasting my 12 minute telephone interview with Mr. Carter, which was more like two collectors talking about baseball cards than a fact-finding mission. Mr. Carter told me how he acquired the Plank, and then he shared an experience he had with Jefferson Burdick as well as his views on collecting cards and his ultimate sale. A transcript of the recording will also be available.



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Mark F.

I don't post much, but I enjoyed your discussion with Lionel Carter. It makes me happy to own one of Lionel's 50,000 cards! (A Hindu backed SGC 20 Juan Violat).

Mark

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Nice job Paul...you're doing a heck of a service for the collecting community tracking these old-timers down. Keep it up.

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Posted By: robert a

Paul,

Thanks for thanking Mr. Carter for years of collecting. He sounds like a great guy.

robert

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Posted By: leon

Absolutely fantastic. Thanks Paul......

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Posted By: Brian

I just read the transcript -- great stuff. Thanks for sharing the conversation on your website.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

He is so bitter sounding, and I really can't blame him. He doesn't care about the money and obviously misses his collection.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: MikeU

That was truly enjoyable. Thank you for your time in sharing this information with the masses.

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Posted By: Troy Kirk

That was an interesting interview, thanks for sharing it. I'm not sure Lionel's memory is correct on the Plank card, though, as he wrote to me many years ago and told me a different story on it. He said he used to buy T206 sets in the Bray auctions and upgrade his set and then resell the sets in the Bray auctions. He said the Plank card was in one of the sets he bought this way. He said he stopped buying sets when he started buying the same ones he had already handled.

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Posted By: jay wolt

Paul, nice interview!
He said he collected for 78 years till the local police told him to sell.
Pretty sad. Its like a piece of his life was gone.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I wouldn't be surprised to see Lionel's story change a bit if and when he has a chance to conclude tracking down the purchase history of the Plank. I was surprised to learn that he apparently has records of these things. And as such, I eagerly anticipate further details on it.

I do think that his general gist is correct though, i.e., when he got the collection with the Plank in it, he thought it might be too "crappy," using his words, to keep it. But then he figured he would hold on to it until he could upgrade it, which he never could.

Suffice to say, I eagerly await his letter to me and I truly hope he sends one soon!



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Great stuff once again. Your site has been allocated some precious real estate on my Firefox Toolbar! Lionel Carter seems to have kept records of almost everything he ever did. George Vrechek's series of interviews with him in SCD gave some hints as to the man's degree of organization.

I found it very interesting he thinks the Plank is scarcer than the Wagenr and wonder what the PSA Pop Reports are on these 2 cards? SGC shows 14 Planks and 5 Wagners. Pop reports are not the end all and be all, but a comparison is useful.

For really rare cards like this, it would be great if there was a high-res photo site where each example would be posted. Will never happen but it would be nice.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I will try to keep adding reasons for people to keep stopping by. At a minimum, my blog will be posted to daily(ish), and I will keep an eye on an interesting auction/sale or two every few days.

I have found that my website has inspired me to see how much I can capture from an audio/visual standpoint that relates to pre-war card collecting. I have some ideas about how I want it to grow, but the more complex they get the harder it becomes to manifest those visions into reality. But I will keep plugging away.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Paul,

Thanks for putting up the transcipt.  I read it at work.

I find it ironic that Lionel almost threw the 'crappy' Plank card away.  I'm not sure if not throwing that card away COST you some money or would have SAVED you some money!?

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Paul:

Can you just dump video on You Tube and link to it??

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Posted By: Alan

Paul - Great interview !!!

I had asked/suggested a thread some time ago for someone possibly doing podcasts for vintage baseball card subjects, but never got any response. I'm glad to see that you may be doing something like that.

Alan

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Posted By: T206Collector

I will be doing blogs and podcasts as frequently as possible and as long as I have good content. If anyone has any ideas for topics they would like addressed, please shoot me an e-mail.

In terms of video, I can put them on YouTube and link them that way. I can also upload video directly with my site builder. I will probably go the YouTube route to keep my web-memory free. At this time, the only thing I have is a video of me opening the J.W. Morey signed cards when they arrived and describing each one as I put them into toploaders. I used the video to preserve the provenance, but I'm not sure anyone in the collecting community would care to see me opening packages of signed pre-war cards. I'll probably publish it at some point.

In terms of saving money, I prefer to think Carter saved me money since I would have gone after the REA PSA 1 Plank last April that went for about $20K. Of course, I stood a less realistic chance of acquiring that one. Even though that one was in better condition, I'd still rather have the Carter one because of who he was and what his name means to the hobby. (Plus, it saved me some funds to go after the signed cards from the Pittsburgh collection when they began to trickle onto ebay last April).

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Bob

Reading the Lionel Carter interview, I felt that the high prices cards go for now are a two edged sword. I agree with Lionel that the cost is nuts but on the other hand, had it not been for the spiralling costs, many of us would never have had the opportunity to amass our collections as the prices caused many of these cards to come out of collections and to be made available for purchase. Yes I wish the cards were still at 1990's prices but the spiraling costs have made them available for all of us.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I've been largely internet deprived over the last couple weeks and have a lot of catching up to do. I just want to bump this to the top for anyone who hasn't listened to the interview yet.

Fantastic Job!, great interview with a truely genuine legend in our hobby.

For those who haven't already, give it a try.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: Richard Cline - RC

Paul - Just listened to the interview -- Awesome! I think you are on to something here similar to "Glory of their Times".

I truly appreciate how you treated Mr. Carter with the respect he deserves and I believe it helps ease some of his sadness to know that his cards are ending up in the hands of true collectors.

Great job and thanks again.

RC

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Posted By: T206Collector

I will admit that I felt a little like Larry Ritter or Ray Kinsella in Field of Dreams tracking down the ghosts of collecting past so that they could continue to enjoy their collections even though they no longer have the collections which made them hobby pioneers. Jeff Morey also noted the parallel when we were setting up his interview. I have read a lot from and about both Morey and Carter but I wanted the collector perspective from both--not the auction house perspective.

I'm very happy everyone is enjoying the interviews. Thanks so much for the support.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Marc

Great interview! However, I was amazed that Carter spoke negatively about the money involved with cards today, whenever he paid $5 for the Plank/various T206 cards back in 1935. It isn't like most people had $5 to spare during the Great Depression of 1930-1940. That was ALOT of money back then.

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Posted By: peter ullman

It's not like $5 adjusted for inflation is six figures...the hobby is definitely different.

pete in mn

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Posted By: Brian

Everything is different today compared with 70 years ago.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Paul -- I concur: thanks for the effort, it means a lot to us and the hobby in general. Wonderful interview with Lionel.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I was surprised and elated to find a letter from Lionel Carter in my mailbox last night. I have scanned it in its entirety and put it on the Checking In With Lionel Carter Page of my website, in the Interviews & Articles link. Among other things, Mr. Carter explains that he got his (now my) Eddie Plank in a Charles Bray auction on May 10, 1957 -- $5.00 for a box of cigarette cards, which included the Plank. This amends his story that he told by telephone that he acquired it in 1935, but given the level of detail it is pretty clear Mr. Carter did his research. I am amazed that he has such detailed records of its acquisition. And I wonder whether he has similar records for all of his cards, most of which now reside in Lionel Carter branded slips in SGC holders.

Mr. Carter sealed his letter with an old stamp of what appears to be his head superimposed on a drawing of a baseball player. Mr. Carter certainly has a grand sense of humor!




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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: leon

Very cool of Mr.Carter to do that for you. Thanks for updating us on it. Nice stamp too.....He was a card addict in his day, you can tell....

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I really enjoyed reading this article. The letter was certainly a nice touch too. What fun it would have been to step back in time and collecting back in the old days.

Ricky

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Posted By: Rich Rockwood

From $5 to $13,000+, now that is what I call a good investment

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Posted By: Seth B.

Hey Paul,
I just finished listening to your conversation with Mr. Carter--what fantastic stuff. Thanks for sharing, looking forward to your talks with other hobby greats.

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Posted By: JimB

Sounds like Charles Bray considered it a throwaway - just one in a lot of tobacco cards. Crazy!
JimB